Circumcision Question

[blessed2bmommy]

Now that we know we're having a boy, the circumcision debate has come up.

I am against it, DH is for it.

DH has a terrible memory. On top of that, he is so unorganized and not good at any insurance/phone call/ scheduling tasks (not putting him down at all, this is just who he is, lol). I've told him previously that if he is so insistent that his son is circumcised he has to figure out all the insurance info (planning a homebirth), find a doctor to do it after the birth, and make the appointment.

When I've mentioned whether he's changed his mind or not, he said no, but is still open to discussing it.

Here's my question:

Do I just ignore it, don't remind him, and don't help with any of the work to do it and just hope he forgets or just gives up?

OR

Do I still try to convince him?

I don't want him to be upset with me for "deceiving him" by not talking about it. It feels kind of like cheating to leave it all up to him knowing he'll most likely forget and I'll get my way.

Thoughts anyone?

[TanyaS]

If he is still open to discussing it, have him watch the Penn and Teller BS video on youtube. It makes a lot of good points and it typically easier for the dad to watch and not see it as you trying to convince him.

[AutumnW]

we had the debate before we had ds. We talked about it several times and I presented information regarding the truth about circumcision. He had no knowledge of it except that he had one and didn't want ds to be different, wouldn't know how to take care of it, etc, etc. We were still debating when ds was born and he was in fact a boy. When my midwife asked if we had made a decision I made a comment about how perfect he was and did dh really think he needed to have part of him cut off to make him better? When we took ds to the ped that week he asked and dh said no we weren't.

I would just make sure that your dh reads about/ watches videos about circ so that he really knows what it entails and the facts about the history behind it and the reality of cleaning etc.(none required)

If you just ignore it and hope that he forgets it could really bite you in the butt and your dh could feel really deceived by you.

[sharr610]

I don't know, personally, I'd let him forget. My DH would get stuck in the whole mess and it would prob dissuade him as well. To cover my tracks, I'd probably send an email, then you have it in writing, stating what you all talked about. Then, if he doesn't do it, you can prove that you reminded him what needed to be done and what he agreed to.

And I thought insurance didn't cover circ anymore?

[Gypsy.Momma]

My Dh was all for having our son circumsized it was a must in his eyes as he is also done. So I told him my case against it and how I felt about the whole process said if he wished to do that to our son against my wishes he would need to make all necessary arrangements and cover all costs. He didn't and I have a very happily intact boy who is 18 months and my husband has since read more and talked more about it with me and is happy he didn't go through with it.

Good luck it's a tough one when 2 parents have opposing views.

[LisaSedai]

Ack tough decsion. I pretended to let DH help decide but truthfully there was no way I was going to circ my kid no matter what DH thought. Depends on how stubborn your DH is. The Penn and Teller clip is thought provoking (and weird in some places) Threre are also clips on the internet that show the procedure which I would think should make any man wince in sympathy. Have you checked the circ discussion forum on Mothering?

As far as "looking like Dad"- my DS has seen DH going to the bathroom and has never asked about any difference in appearance.

[at_the_hip]

If we end up being shocked on Wed with news of a boy, dh will make the decision. He has trusted me with many choices and I have to give this to him. He realises that I would prefer not, and that he would have to make arrangements to find a Dr, pay for it, and be in there during the procedure. I'll just pray and I'm sure dh will make the decision that he feels best - I am ok with that as long as he takes the time to be informed.

[Jen H.]

I would definitely try to talk him out of it. The man needs to be educated on the matter! Read a lot on the Circ forum here, and pass along any pertinent info to your DH. Some of it's a little "out there," but a lot of it is good, scientifically based reasoning against circumcision.

In our case, when we learned we were expecting a boy with our first, he automatically assumed we'd be going ahead with it, simply because he was circ'd. I made him read a lot, and generally just got into the whole debate with him. It didn't take long - there's really almost no argument FOR it that makes sense. Besides, once that little babe is born and you're both all in love with him and he's so perfect, I challenge any parent to want to mutilate their baby's genitals at that point.

And there is also the argument - since when does a grown man's penis and a little boy's look remotely similar no matter what? Both my boys are intact and they've never commented on how daddy's looks different. OF COURSE it looks different! Some day they'll be old enough to explain it all to them, but it's never come up and DS1 is almost 6 now.

[slsurface]

Try to convince him. I agree with the pp that mentioned the Penn and Teller video. It is a good one. But the one thing that really convinced my DH was to tell him that female circ is considered mutilation and is illegal in every country on the globe...why would he want to do the same sort of thing to his son? He was totally against circ from then on. Good luck.

[Mamja]

Hmm, I didn't really convince DH, I just told him that there's no way I would allow it. I think DH would have preferred it, but he saw how passionate I am. He also knows I research things like this a ton.

COMPLETELY different thing, but he knows how much I am against ear piercing of infants. The reason is that nobody except the child should make that decision. But that is also the main reason I am against circumcision. We also didn't baptize DD because I feel like that is a decision she alone should make.

Besides the obvious risks, dangers, pain, etc, what does your DH think about doing major surgery on a child without his consent?

[blessed2bmommy]

We HAVE watched the Penn and Teller. Not recently, though. Maybe it's time for a refresher. I think I'm going to give it one more last good shot. Then if he still wants to, tell him how adamantly I'm against it.

He feels this way about ear piercing. I want to get our DD's ears pierced, but he's so against it so I would never do that to her against his wishes. Too bad he won't cut me the same respect.

In the end, he'll be stubborn and still want to do it, but I know he probably wont' follow through with it. He wouldn't even know where to start for the circ.

[sharr610]

Maybe hearing it from someone else he knows? Midwife, pediatrician(the AAP stance is AGAINST routine circ, last I heard), friend? This is what did it for my DH. First, the midwife with all the new stats and the the pediatrician. Sealed the deal for him. Hes so proud to have an intact son.
I ran this by him today as he is so like you describe your DH. He said, "Hey, if you made it totally clear to me, at some point, that it was 100 percent my responsibility, then I have to be man enough and accept it if I don't get it done." Your DH is an adult, he can man up and figure out if this is important enough to him to do all the legwork and research. If he doesn't, its just not important enough to him.

[Burnindinner]

I think maritally speaking, it is a good idea to have just one more conversation. Personally, I would lay out my argument, give him the references to look up the research, and tell him that I will not take ANY further action that would lead to circumcision. I'm not doing the insurance research, scheduling appts, whatever. If he can honestly go through the research and still proceed, then he will have to follow through on his own, I'm not going to remind him.

But there are a couple of different questions there - one is marriage-related and the other circumcision-related.

[broodymama]

I would go ahead and have another conversation with him, just to be on the safe side. Has he watched the video of one being done? That can be a really powerful video. I watched it once when I was pregnant with DS and the screams of that poor little baby are forever burned into my memory.

I know there are many women (mostly on other boards) that leave the decision up to their DHs, but that is really putting the little boys at risk of nearly automatic genital mutilation. If DH wanted to pull the "I have the penis" card (luckily he was against it!), then I would counter with "but I'm the one with intact/unaltered genitals". Besides, is there any other body part you would let them chop off of your babe in the name of marital harmony? (Just for clarification, this isn't aimed at you, OP!)

[craft_media_hero]

ddc crashing

My advice is make it a non-issue. It's not going to happen. You may disagree, but you're not going to facilitate it, and he's not going to go through with everything necessary to force it.

So why make it into a debate. Just keep your stance if it comes up and then don't entertain any of the necessities to insure circumcision.

Do like pp said and watch Penn and Teller if it seems natural, but don't create artificial spaces of time for debate, kwim?

This has worked w/ my dp. He knew how I felt before we got pg, and we did disagree, a few times heatedly. Then when we found out I was pg, I didn't really bring it up. He knows it will happen over my dead body I feel that strongly about it. And he has kind of come around on his own about questioning it to the point where now, yes, it really is a non-issue.

I just let circumstance bring it up and lightly re-iterated that I'm against it. Like watch Year 1 and let the absurdness of cutting off the tip of one's penis really sink in. Or Penn and Teller or whatever.

Don't fight about it. It's not going to happen; you won't let it. That's it. Non-issue.

[blessed2bmommy]

I think I will bring it up again. Probably soon, but as suggested, try to not make it a big issue.

I'm going to concentrate on the fact that he is very against getting my DD's ear's pierced. He believes it should be up to her when she is old enough to decide. Since he is so adamantly against this, I would never go and get it done, no matter how cute I think it is and want it done, lol.

Circumcision is way more significant with more possible negative outcomes. If I'm so against it, why would he go against my wishes? I'm just going to tell him how important it is to me for it NOT to happen.

I'm also going to tell him the ball is in his court. Since our son will be perfect the way he is, that he has to come ot me with research and convince me its the right thing to do. Why should I have to convince him to leave our son alone? It should be the other way around. He needs to convince me that our son needs to be changed.

The funny thing about all this is that he refuses to get a vasectomy because he doesn't want anyone messing with his stuff! How his logic works I will never understand!


THANK YOU everyone for the advice and tips! Hoping for a positive outcome.

[monarch27]

I think my husband probably would have preferred to have our son circumcised until he read the information about it. After that he was pissed that he had been circumcised and it was easy for us to agree that we didn't want that for our son.

Our son is six now and we have come upon ZERO problems from him not being circumcised. It doesn't require special cleaning and he has never had an infection. I think most people do it so there kid will be like everyone else, but it is becoming more and more common for people not to circumcise... we are the ONLY nation in the world where it is done routinely.

Heidi in Utah

[Tulafina]

Originally Posted by monarch27

I think my husband probably would have preferred to have our son circumcised until he read the information about it. After that he was pissed that he had been circumcised and it was easy for us to agree that we didn't want that for our son.

Our son is six now and we have come upon ZERO problems from him not being circumcised. It doesn't require special cleaning and he has never had an infection. I think most people do it so there kid will be like everyone else, but it is becoming more and more common for people not to circumcise... we are the ONLY nation in the world where it is done routinely.

Heidi in Utah

My hubby was very angry that his mom had decided to forever change the way his genitals function. He is still talking about restoration. After reading everything that I wanted him to and watching an infant being circed(on the internet) he was absolutely against it. I refused to watch the circ on the net because I knew it would haunt me forever and I have been opposed to circ since way before I had children. Stand your ground.

I think it's a great idea to have him come up with reasons you SHOULD have it done. If he does his research well he will find very little to support it.
Be strong mama!! Take Care!

[Cetan Luta]

DDC crashing. Just wanted to comment on the "Wanting son to not look different from Dad" excuses some men give. I have two uncirced boys (almost 10 and 5). They have noticed that they look a little different, we explained exactly why, and they are both very sad that someone chose to do that to their dad! There are many men who, upon educating themselves, become very angry that they were mutilated as children. It would be far better to educate your husband (gently and lovingly) and let him make his choices with all the information than risk him deciding to circ your child and regretting his decision later when he comes across the facts. If his opinion is still the same after some education (watching a circumcision video is hard to not change your mind over), then you can decide whether or not to turn it into a debate. But there is no real debate involved in requesting that someone make an informed decision rather than an ignorant one, regardless of what that decision ends up being. Most people would rather have all the facts before making a decision of that magnitude and permanancy, regardless of where they stand on the issue. Good Luck Mama!

[GoBecGo]

I'm in the UK, would never consider or allow my children to have this done to them.

But it does make me chuckle to think of the whole "looking like daddy" thing. My own father was circ'd (due to his horrible father doing forced retraction and washing every day until he was so scarred he had no function and a more or less permanent infection) and my brother of course wasn't. My brother, when he was 3 or 4, saw my dad's penis and came running from the bathroom yelling "mummy" daddy's willy is NOT like mine!!!". They had wondered if this would come up and gently asked my bro for clarification. Eyes like saucers he relied "mummy it is really hairy, and it is HUGE!" lol. He hadn't noticed the lack of foreskin when faced with the other grossly obvious differences!

In your situation i wouldn't bring it up. Circumcision is just as needlessly cruel and pointless at 4 years old as 4 days old. If your DH remembers years from now that he was going to do it, he can still do it, and he'll be able to explain to his son why it hurts so bad afterwards.