"Mediation failed"

[Halfasianmomma]

Sorry if this doesn't exactly belong here mamas.

I don't know where else to post.

Mediation with STBX has "failed" due to STBX refusing to show up after reading a custody proposal I drafted. He called it unfair, manipulative and one-sided, not omitting to tell me I was a liar and that my stepson now hates me for trying to "take his sister away".

I'm waiting to hear from my lawyer as to what's next. Court I guess.

I was really hoping it wouldn't come to this.

[Ceinwen]

Oh mama, I'm so sorry.

I will never understand some people. Is your lawyer supposed to get in touch with you today? What exactly does your ex want that wasn't in the proposal?

Thinking of you and your dd.

[Halfasianmomma]

I proposed joint legal and joint physical, with me having primary residential custody and STBX having generous access rights. I also defined a visitation schedule based on what we have now (2x week visits), but increasing STBX's time over periods of 6 months, until DD hits 4, after which we could revise. In addition to this, I specified that STBX could ask for more visitation if he so desired.

I thought I was being fair, considering DD's needs as well as STBX's likings/schedule, but there's no pleasing him. He basically wants DD 50% of the time as of yesterday, not taking into account that he has no place for her to sleep (he just rented out her room to a roommate), she still nurses to sleep and very early in the morning, and he doesn't know how to put her down to sleep (not to mention his utter lack of involvement in caring for her since birth).

We haven't even touched on child support, but I think he expects me to keep paying for everything, which I have been, while he gets DD 50% of the time.

Still waiting on the lawyer to get back to me.

[wytchywoman]

You were being fair, and your STBX is being unreasonable. This will not look good in court and he pretty much comes out looking like a tool. Wait to hear form your lawyer but yes, I would assume that court is next. PS....given that he has flat out refused to mediate, I would ask the lawyer to stipulate in the divorce decree that STBX be held responsible for your portion of the lawyers and court fees. He had the opportunity to work it out without court being involved and he turned it down. Seems only fair that he should have to pay for the expense of the courts involvement in your case.

[meemee]

i wonder if money speaks.

i think he is asking for her 50% to avoid or reduce CS.

however i will say one thing. if things DO go that way - he may do more careing. hopefully if you do give him bottles of bm he could be trusted in giving that to her.

just because he has not dont anything really yet doesnt mean he wont in the future.

plus i think he just wants to throw a temper tantrum and is choosing to do it this way.

with hurt feelings both ways - its really hard to sit down and be level headed about this. i am so sorry that you guys couldnt work things out better.

[Ceinwen]

OMG, are you kidding me?? I was totally waiting for you to have offered something really demanding or difficult for him to agree to. You basically offered the most fair and comprehensive agreement possible.

At this point, I'd be curious to see what the attorneys say. Joint custody and increasing visitation? I mean, come on - he doesn't even have a place for her to stay? The judge is going to laugh at him. I'm betting this comes down to $$$ as well, with a big dose of pride on top.

[Halfasianmomma]

Ceinwen, meemee,...I think you are both right. This is about money. He's basically lived off my since we got together, and even when he was working, I paid for a large portion of expenses. Since I've left he's made a lot of noise about how broke he is, yet he persists in keeping the expensive 3 bedroom apartment we shared and of course, he keeps buying beer and cigarettes.

I don't think he's taken the time to speak to a lawyer about CS. I have and have been told that by taking into accounts our incomes, if he were to be given 50% shared physical custody, he could only obtain 44$ a month from me in CS. I wonder if he was counting on more. Guess he wasn't thinking about having to share in clothing, food, diaper and daycare expenses. Had we continued with mediation, I would have offered to only take a small portion of the CS he would owe me if I were to obtain primary physical custody (the max amount would be 220$ a month), because I know that with him, money comes with strings. I'd rather not have to go after him for money at all because it'll mean even more trouble.

Cross your fingers for me mamas; I know that if this goes to court, it'll get nasty.

STBX's *third* wife and mother of his *third* son, for whom he has never paid any CS has been in touch with me, looking to go after him for over 7K of CS arrears. Too bad STBX's first wife and mother of his first son who he also abandoned has passed away.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Ok, so what happens now is that you go to court. Who cares that mediation failed? A judge, in a court room, is NOT going to see your proposal as being unreasonable. They are going to know that mediation failed b/c of your ex and not b/c of you.

And, theres no way they are going to find that a child your DD's age should be split 50/50 - its not going to happen b/c its not in her best interest. And that's the standard (at least it is where I am - but I think its pretty universal). Especially since you can probably prove that he hasn't been a major part of your daughters caregiving since birth - courts like to leave the children with the primary caregiver.

Good luck!

[NolaRiordan]

Originally Posted by thyra

Ok, so what happens now is that you go to court. Who cares that mediation failed? A judge, in a court room, is NOT going to see your proposal as being unreasonable. They are going to know that mediation failed b/c of your ex and not b/c of you.

And, theres no way they are going to find that a child your DD's age should be split 50/50 - its not going to happen b/c its not in her best interest. And that's the standard (at least it is where I am - but I think its pretty universal). Especially since you can probably prove that he hasn't been a major part of your daughters caregiving since birth - courts like to leave the children with the primary caregiver.

Good luck!

All of that may be true, and hopefully is true. But I think you shouldn't be overly confident. You're still going to need to be vigilant with documentation and make sure you have all your ducks in a row. Don't assume the judge will be on your side because your STBX has screwed up. There are too many cases where you'd swear one party was clearly being unreasonable but the judge didn't see it that way.

[Halfasianmomma]

Thank you for that sobering reminder NolaRiordan. I am definitely afraid of things turning sour in court because I know how "pro-shared custody" the tribunals of Quebec are. It honestly depends on which judge you get and what kind of day he or she is having (so says the family court judge I spoke to a number of times).

Just for fun today, STBX called and left me an angry voicemail that he received the mediation report and *gasp* it's ONLY in French! In the province of Québec, how dare they?! He threatened to rip it up unless I called him to tell him what it was about.

Fun times...

[NolaRiordan]

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma

Thank you for that sobering reminder NolaRiordan. I am definitely afraid of things turning sour in court because I know how "pro-shared custody" the tribunals of Quebec are. It honestly depends on which judge you get and what kind of day he or she is having (so says the family court judge I spoke to a number of times).

.

I think that's really true everywhere-- not just where you are. I'm in a fairly small town and there are 3 judges here that do divorces. I took a Coping with Divorce class last Fall and we were comparing notes about settlements, and I could not believe the variability in what people got in terms of custody and assets and all based on the judge they had. Certainly something to keep in mind.

[wytchywoman]

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma

Thank you for that sobering reminder NolaRiordan. I am definitely afraid of things turning sour in court because I know how "pro-shared custody" the tribunals of Quebec are. It honestly depends on which judge you get and what kind of day he or she is having (so says the family court judge I spoke to a number of times).

Just for fun today, STBX called and left me an angry voicemail that he received the mediation report and *gasp* it's ONLY in French! In the province of Québec, how dare they?! He threatened to rip it up unless I called him to tell him what it was about.

Fun times...

Save the voicemail and tell him he can ask his attorney what it means. It's not your job to explain the court process and it's consequences to him. If he doesn't have an attorney then he'll have to call the courts and ask a clerk to translate. Don't provide that kind of assistance to him. ever. He's a big boy and he can find his own resources to deal with these types of problems.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by wytchywoman

Save the voicemail and tell him he can ask his attorney what it means. It's not your job to explain the court process and it's consequences to him. If he doesn't have an attorney then he'll have to call the courts and ask a clerk to translate. Don't provide that kind of assistance to him. ever. He's a big boy and he can find his own resources to deal with these types of problems.

SAVE THAT VOICE MAIL!!!! Put it on something else if you can!!!! SAVE IT! That kind of evidence *could* tip any judge in your favor - that type of immaturity won't impress anyone. And, if he denies he said it, you can play the tape in court.

[MissLotus]

I'm sorry he's being so impossible. I think, as much as a gamble that court can be, that in your case it might actually be better because guys like that need to see/hear a judge tell them how it is. I think with mediation, even if he'd agreed, he'd still try to make things his way afterwards. He needs an "authority", because no matter what you offer (and you are being more than reasonable!) he won't agree. So you may just end up doing much better in court!

(I was glad not to go to court when I got divorced, but it's also made my ex feels that things agreed upon between us are "optional". No, it WAS signed by a judge, it's legal.)

I also would not respond to his ridiculous complaint about the French document. It has nothing to do with you, and you're not his lawyer - let him deal with it!

[Halfasianmomma]

Sadly, this is Quebec and the laws regarding using a recorded voicemail message in court are different. In fact, it is not permitted to do so.

I ended up ignoring the voicemail and never responding. Everything is an emergency to this person; I get a bit of a kick out of not responding to his immediate need for drama.

MissLotus, you are right. There is no arguing with such a narcissist. I truly and honestly give up on that front. Guess my lawyer will have to do the talking. Have a phone appointment with her in 2 hours.

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma

I proposed joint legal and joint physical, with me having primary residential custody and STBX having generous access rights. I also defined a visitation schedule based on what we have now (2x week visits), but increasing STBX's time over periods of 6 months, until DD hits 4, after which we could revise. In addition to this, I specified that STBX could ask for more visitation if he so desired.

I thought I was being fair, considering DD's needs as well as STBX's likings/schedule, but there's no pleasing him. He basically wants DD 50% of the time as of yesterday, not taking into account that he has no place for her to sleep (he just rented out her room to a roommate), she still nurses to sleep and very early in the morning, and he doesn't know how to put her down to sleep (not to mention his utter lack of involvement in caring for her since birth).

We haven't even touched on child support, but I think he expects me to keep paying for everything, which I have been, while he gets DD 50% of the time.

Still waiting on the lawyer to get back to me.

A very fair proposal. Sorry he is being such an ...

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma

Sadly, this is Quebec and the laws regarding using a recorded voicemail message in court are different. In fact, it is not permitted to do so.

I ended up ignoring the voicemail and never responding. Everything is an emergency to this person; I get a bit of a kick out of not responding to his immediate need for drama.

MissLotus, you are right. There is no arguing with such a narcissist. I truly and honestly give up on that front. Guess my lawyer will have to do the talking. Have a phone appointment with her in 2 hours.

Then tell him to contact you via email when he has anything he needs from you. Tell him thats easier, and will ensure a response from you. That way you CAN use his immaturity against him in court.

[Halfasianmomma]

Wow, good suggestion. Thanks thyra

[Ceinwen]

I'm a big fan of recording everything via email. Changes in plans, minor agreements to things, etc.

For me it's less about preparing for court (although I do keep all exchanges just in case) and more because ex LOVES to change his mind at the last minute or claim he NEVER EVER would have agreed to something 'like that'.

I just forward the email, and every time he's like 'Hm. Guess we did agree to that'.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Halfasianmomma

Wow, good suggestion. Thanks thyra

Anytime! I'm not a law student for nothing! And, save that voicemail anyway. Really - even if you don't think you can use it, it won't hurt anyone if you have it saved somewhere.