amazing, and not in a good way.

[gardenmommy]

So I just watched a video of a routine infant circumcision. It took me three times to watch it all the way through, and even then, I had to turn off the sound. I felt physically ill watching it. I cried, because I thought about what I allowed DS1 to go through. I wish I had had the information then that I do now about this. I have processed the regret and all that, but it still causes me grief to think that my son felt such pain. He did, and I truly think that the circ combined with his birth dramatically affected his personality development. I am SO thankful that DS2 is intact. What really made me sad and mad is that the dr. in the video kept reassuring the dad that there was anesthetic in the topical disinfectant they applied immediately before cutting. "Just to take the edge off", like that would be enough to numb the pain. And even if there was, there wasn't enough time for it to take effect. And the other thing was the the dr. also kept reassuring the dad that the only reason the baby was upset (screaming to the point of not being able to breathe and swallow) was because of the restraints. Like, cutting into possibly the most sensitive area of the baby's body without any sort of numbing agent wouldn't be extremely distressing to the baby!??!! Wow. Just, wow. It really upsets me. I am all for parents to have the right to parent the way that is best for their family, but I think this is too much. Leave it alone, if the child wants it done when they are able to make that medical choice, they can do it.

[buttercups.nest]

ugh, just reading your post has my stomach in knots! i have been reading blog posts and such (woman uncensored and peaceful parenting) and am horrified of the CIO and circumcision posts....make me sick!

my little one has cried rather loudly (i was in the bathroom) and just thinking of him crying while strapped to the table...cold, alone and in a lot of pain makes me cry.

[Oubliette8]

I've seen the one you are referring to and that doctor infuriates me! I've done a lot of reading on the topic and do not know of a single anesthetic applied in the manner he claims.

On the topic of "babies don't feel pain" I was thinking that we were finally making headway into the idea that babies DO feel pain. I check the baby books on my library's new books shelf and was shocked today to read in their new acquisition "You having a baby : the owner's manual to a happy and healthy pregnancy" by Michael F. Roizen, that parents should take comfort in the fact that "Babies don't process or feel pain in the same way that adults do". Ugh. And this book was published in 2009!

The whole thing makes me ill.

[gardenmommy]

I wish I could have a follow-up with that father in the video; he seemed distressed by his son's pain. I don't know how he was able to stand there and allow that surgery to continue, I would have been hysterical and demanding they stop.

And yeah, just not able to comprehend that whole thing about babies not feeling pain like adults do. It has been documented that they feel pain in utero! Just amazes me that this is still allowed, esp. without proper pain control. When DS (2 y.o.) had to go in for stitches, they offered to to a topical anesthetic first, but informed me it would take 30 minutes to take effect, after which they could use a needle to properly numb the cut. That would take effect in about 15 minutes. Fortunately, we ended up not needing stitches at all (they used glue), but just thinking about that made me wonder why in the world a dr. wouldn't take the time to do the same thing for a newborn and *SURGERY*!! On an extremely sensitive part of the body! There is no way in H E double hockey sticks that a child of mine will ever experience that again. If I could undo my DS1's circ., I would in a heartbeat.

[mamabadger]

"Painless" circ video?

This makes me wonder about all those babies we hear about, who just lay quietly during their "painless" circumcisions. I have seen videos of babies screaming during the procedure, "because of the restraints" of course, but never a video of the happy painless circ some nurses claim is typical. Has anyone ever seen a video of a baby calmly looking around, not crying or upset in the least, while the circ was being performed?

[joyrises]

Originally Posted by Oubliette8

I've seen the one you are referring to and that doctor infuriates me! I've done a lot of reading on the topic and do not know of a single anesthetic applied in the manner he claims.

On the topic of "babies don't feel pain" I was thinking that we were finally making headway into the idea that babies DO feel pain. I check the baby books on my library's new books shelf and was shocked today to read in their new acquisition "You having a baby : the owner's manual to a happy and healthy pregnancy" by Michael F. Roizen, that parents should take comfort in the fact that "Babies don't process or feel pain in the same way that adults do". Ugh. And this book was published in 2009!

The whole thing makes me ill.

If anything, I feel quite sure they feel pain more strongly, and in more of a shocking way to their so-very-open body-mind-spirits.

[jessjgh1]

I've seen a few circ videos where the person claims it is 'painless' their is usually no sound and you can see the baby is either twitching or pulling away from the constraints. They usually have a paci stuffed in their mouth, too. If you look at how the child is breathing and for these other signs it usually seems quite obvious that the child is in much discomfort. These videos are done to pacify parents reacting to information they hear.
And babies do fall into a sleep if they are under stress. Most parents who have had an unhappy infant in a carseat on the highway (unable to pull over/off) know this as the child will scream hard for a long time and then suddenly conk out sound asleep. Some kids cry for a long time and other seem to let go rather quickly (which can be a blessing). I sometimes use that as a 'case in point'-- so yes, some children will tolerate a circumcision just fine (if they get proper pain relief and 'conk out' earlier) but some boys just will have a more traumatic experience if they keep fighting and don't fall asleep or are not given pain relief. Why would you risk it? That doctor can ignore this is beyond me, beyond sense and logic.

It is a shame that parents are not given more information because so many would not even consider circumcision and if they knew more about the procedure they would demand proper pain relief, at the very least.

Jessica

[hakunangovi]

I do not believe that those babies who appear to be asleep actualy are - Rather I think they fret themselves into a mild coma - that being their "defense mechanism".

[KGB]

I think all parents that choose to have their sons circumcised should be REQUIRED to watch the procedure rather than having it done behind closed doors. The rates of circs would plummet.

Originally Posted by gardenmommy

And the other thing was the dr. also kept reassuring the dad that the only reason the baby was upset (screaming to the point of not being able to breathe and swallow) was because of the restraints. Like, cutting into possibly the most sensitive area of the baby's body without any sort of numbing agent wouldn't be extremely distressing to the baby!??!! Wow. Just, wow.

Unfortunately, we as a society put too much BLIND FAITH in doctors and the medical system. Afterall, they're the ones with the medical degree, right? Who are we to say what is right and what is wrong? That causes us to believe in everything they say whether or not it goes against our morals or instincts.

Question EVERYTHING. Hold strong to your morals and always get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions. Some doctors have the typical "God complex" and feel that they can tell people whatever they want and they HAVE to believe it. My wife is a nurse, so I hear about stuff like that all the time and it infuriates me.

[gardenmommy]

Absolutely! I was against it with my first, but DH felt so strongly that he wanted it done, I gave in. When I saw DS1's penis after the circ, I was horrified, and felt awful about consenting to it. I decided then and there it would NEVER happen to any other babies in my care. I have been accused many times of just wanting to buck the trend, of being against doctors, of not wanting to do things "the normal way" etc, but really, truthfully, it is just that I do question everything, esp. since that first experience with birthing and circumcision. It is so important to know why something is being done, and to know if you are comfortable with it. I totally agree that if more people could witness a circumcision, and all the distress the baby is in, it would be a non-issue. No one would consent to it, short of a general anesthesia and life or death crisis.

I do think that the babies are in so much distress that they shut down to avoid it. I've seen it in that car seat example more than once with my own kids, and I don't think that is nearly as stressful as having major surgery without pain relief. Even when they stop crying, it is obvious they are upset because their breathing is so rough, and they are so tense. Just the violation of trust that baby experiences is bad enough, without adding in the unmitigated pain. My DS cried every time he peed for about a week, and then, I think he just expected it to hurt, so he cried at every diaper change for MONTHS. Definitely, it should be required viewing for all expectant parents.