Ped said massive double ear infection for 10 mo...

[mom2tatum]

I always hear that 95% or higher are viral, not bacterial, therefore antibiotics are completely unhelpful and over prescribed. Doc says there are some she'd say wait and see, but not this one, she said its really awful looking in there. She immediately started writing a script and I blurted out, well, I am not giving him that yet. I know he's sick, but would there be harm in waiting another day or two (we are on day 5 of high fevers with little breaks only and tons of coughing and yucky nose stuff)? She said if it were her, she'd treat it immediately and not risk him going to the hospital needing IV antibiotics and risking ear drum rupturing. Even though I realized these could just have been scare tactics, she was so adamant that she is conservative with these normally but considering he is only 10 mo and he has actually just seemed worse today, she'd not wait.

When I said I'd call in the morning with an update to nurse and see what they think...she said, oh and squirt bm in his ear, too, isn't that what one of you good bf moms would do? (haha) I said I would and wished I had strongly considered that days ago, but I thought flu, not ear infection.

Anyhow, then I looked on Dr. Sears site and found this helpful info, however, nothing about viral vs. bacterial - where does that fact come from, I couldn't find it. He seems to think the antibiotics are not necessary either though, and most will heal in 7 days. Well, I'm willing to cave finally on the tylenol and hope he improves tomorrow and the next day since we're on day 5 - I DO not want my child on antibiotics for an ear infection, something I never thought I'd even ever consider. Yet, hear I am, she's got me worried about my baby being in the hospital.

So many things are going through my head, but without writing a book, what do my fellow smart MDC moms think?

[sbgrace]

The wait and see on ear infections (for resolving of fever and pain, not necessarily completely drained ear) is 48 to 72 hours. Viral ear infections are going to clear up in that time. In my experience bacterial ones do as well. My son had (known) Hib bacterial infection and still cleared up in under 48 hours.

If I'm reading correctly and you think you're on day 5 of an ear infection, he seems worse, and the pediatrician though it looked horrible still I'd give the antibiotics (and probiotics three hours after every single dose directly as well as taking them yourself) if this were my child.

My child did end up on IV antibiotics with mastoiditis...it's rare and not likely. However, complications do happen and I would be concerned if it's gone on five days without resolution. Outside of my child who ended up with mastoiditis I have never had that happen to other children or my friends kids. They have all been better within that 48 hour time period. My child who did get the complicated ear infection had ears that simply didn't drain/something was structurally off there. He did go longer with ear infections (before I knew better/I wouldn't do it again). His mastoiditis was on day 2 (started Sunday night and seemed better on Monday and Tuesday morning and then got sicker on Tues. evening and work up with mastoiditis on Wed. morning) so I'm not saying that you wait you get complications or vice versa. He had waited times prior to that/when he was much younger. I don't think I was wise in doing that and I don't think I was kind to let it go on (though I thought I was doing the right thing for him at the time).

[mom2tatum]

good to hear, I appreciate your response tremendously.

Ok, I don't know how long the ear infection has been there, but we are day five, now almost day 6 of fever, so probably close to that with an infection. I am going back today after a chiro adjustment and lots of bm in the ear. He hasn't been seriously upset, but he has been in Ergo constantly, or laying on us, except a few times getting down to play for minutes at a time when fever went down. And I'm wondering if this IS his miserable since he is so happy normally and we are just comforting him so well...

Anyone else?

[KatWrangler]

I think 5 or 6 days of possible ear infection is too long.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

I think 5 or 6 days of possible ear infection is too long.

I agree. Ear infections can be incredibly painful, especially for little ones. This seems to be the kind of situation where antibiotics are most certainly in order.

[crunchy_mama]

My 2.5 y.o. just got over her first ever round of antibiotics for a double ear infection. I had tried the nat things and it got better and then worse, the thought made me sick, but at that point I felt it was needed. Now we are all sleeping well. Sounds like your little one is really not feeling well, personally I would go ahead and do them.

[moonlight mom]

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

I think 5 or 6 days of possible ear infection is too long.

I agree. I resorted to Antibiotics 1 time when my ds had a horrible double ear infection. The ped knows my feelings about ABs but felt it was necessary for this infection. I agree with the others to use probiotics as well.

[mom2tatum]

Well, I have no car all the sudden - my husband took my carseats in our other car with him to work 40 min away even if I got a ride to dr. later. A friend can pick up the script for me, and I wanted to hold onto it till tonight. I realize what everyone is saying, but I thought two further things - he's not showed a fever since yesterday, if any, maybe real low - but nothing obvious to the touch. My thermometer broke, my phone is not charging, I am having a real string of bad luck things happening...so I feel like I should just get the antibiotics in him, but I would prefer to see a real doc - I keep forgetting the woman I saw was a NP, not an actual ped. I have an appt with a ped/LC at 3 that I wanted to keep because he seems a little better, just fatigued still, but no fever, and getting smiles. Maybe he is getting through it, I'd love her to look in his ears - but I can't get a darn ride! Unless I ask my dh to leave work early - but he was late this morning already taking us to chiro...ah. I could walk ten min, take a trolley, and walk another ten min...with the kids in freezing weather, with the baby ear infection, I just don't know - bundle his ears up? jeez, decisions.

thank you MDC moms, any other thoughts or help is welcome.

[mom2tatum]

also the other thing is this - we are going off dairy as a family due to some suspision (sp?) it is a culprit of these issues and some other things like sleeping issues for both my kids always.

So, the only probiotics I have are Rhino - which is not dairy free clearly - so should I still give them along with the antibiotics even though the dairy is a contributor to the infection getting worse for sure?

oh boy.

[TCMoulton]

The Dr can call a prescription into the pharmacy, there is no need to physically pick up a prescription form.

[jeliphish]

abx are over-prescribed however they have not been over-prescribed to your son. Day 5 or 6 is entirely too long for an ear infection and that along with the fact that he has other yucky stuff signals that this is not viral ESPECIALLY with green nose mucus. MDC moms are not ones to advocate abx at first sign of illness but from everything you have posted, I think the overwhelming (well actually 100%) consensus is that this should be treated so that you will avoid permanent damage to your son's ears.

[mom2tatum]

Yes, I am waiting for a great friend to drop them off to me...she is at pharmacy now.

Thank you all for helping me...I knew nothing about ear infections really until just yesterday, except that I heard how overprescribed meds are. So thank you for giving me perspective, this is why I love MDC.

But, about the probiotics being dairy, still give (we are just starting to eliminate it)? or not at all, just try AB without (something else I never saw myself doing)?

[luv-my-boys]

I would still give him the probio. you have on hand now but really try to get something dairy free tonight. Some prob. is better than nothing. Also with Abx remember that it may take up to 3 doses for you to see any change in fussiness/fever whatnot. its important to have a followup when done with the meds to make sure it has completely cleared up and there is no fluid left. Since your still nursing remember that also has lots of good protective things to help his tummy.

[crunchy_mama]

We are df here and have been for awhile and I would still say use the probiotics w/ dairy in them for now and try to get some of the df variety. Happy to see you are trying eliminating the dairy to help. I hope your babe gets relief soon (and you as well).

[KatWrangler]

Good luck Mama!

Let us know how your little one is doing.

[mom2tatum]

I need some non dairy snack ideas, it is day 1 and I am completely frustrated already - I knew this would be hard for me - I depend on yogurt, milk, cheeses mostly to get through the day without withering away - that's another issue.

Anyhow, ideas for dairy free meals and snacks welcome!

And, my LO is seeming better, but he has motrin in him...and still not himself of course - very tired, lots of naps in the Ergo, not much awake time, but he is happy and wanting to play (just irritable) when awake. I gave him first dose at 1:30 today and I'll give him the PB halfway between doses, at 7:30. I shouldn't have started searching online, but I did and I found all kinds of info saying some people believe (and many MD's) that PB interferes with the effectiveness of the AB. And even a site that said doctors see patients doing better with one round of AB vs taking PB with it and needing further rounds or stronger AB's. I hate all these controversies, why can't there just be a manual to help us mindful parents make easier decisions, I am so stressed and worried as it is, I just want to do the right thing, maybe I'm already feeling that mama guilt for waiting to call doc and get him checked out and on these AB (even though i called mon morn, and took the first appt avail - I guess I could've been more concerned over the weekend and called the on call doc)

I hope he has a better night after another dose and some more motrin...we could all use some sleep - my dh and I are about to rip each other apart, we are wrecked.

[sbgrace]

I don't know where you are reading that probiotics interfere with antibiotics but they do not. There are lots and lots of studies on pubmed (medical journals) on this. They help healing and protect from antibiotic side effects. You give them three hours after every dose. Probably what you're reading about not doing them together is about the probiotic--antibiotics kill probiotics so if you give them at the same time it's useless for the probiotic.

I'd focus on the ears right now and then work on the dairy free personally. It sounds like you have an awful lot going wrong right now and dairy free takes some planning/getting used to as you need alternative protein sources and soy often has the same issues as dairy.

[mom2tatum]

We have taken PB prophylacticly until recently because of dh lay off, I know how great they are, I get using them with AB, I'd never not use them, but here was a discussion I came upon when searching to confirm your 3hr after rule, that got me screwing around out of curiousity online and found more similar anecdotal info from docs and patients saying similar things about its controversies, thats all. I had never heard anything negative before today, and I frequently recommend that to people planning on taking AB, but never knew specifically how and when, etc.

Why 3 hr? Because I read a few different places (again, I closed all those windows out except that one I linked above) it should be equally between the dose and not a set time after. since it is amoxicillin 2x day, I thought to give the PB six hours after. Just wondering where you got that info, I want to do the best thing and its hard when the docs don't know this thing you have to find out on your own and I like to know why.

And the dairy being eliminated feels really right to me, thats why I want to go with it now - I don't want to keep it in baby's sysytem at all while battling an ear infection - they are related if not the full cause - I have been suspecting dairy being a cause of colds worsening in my kids, causing spitting up in both of them throughout entire first year of life, very very burpy and gassy, and frequent wakers - my 3.5 yo still wakes up multiple times a night, and the baby wakes every 30 min or so all night - just like my ds1 did this age too - and each time letting out a burp or fart. No one has listened to me about these sleep issues and other attached parents always just say, yeah mine wake up constantly to nurse too, etc. Well, mine doesn't want to nurse, could care less, he just wakes - every light sleep cycle. Why? no one can tell me...now is a good time I feel for me to do ED for dairy because I feel it will help baby get better sooner now - so I'll be more willing to stick with it feeling like he is at risk if I don't, yk? I don't have time to scroll through all the links under the allergies resources page to try and find dairy free snacks, so if anyone wouldn't mind throwing a few at me...does anyone make a ranch like dip that is dairy/soy free? and what about made in a facility...or shared equip with? Is that vital for us right now at least, or can I gradually get there maybe after infection since it is only through my milk to baby for now?

anyhow. thanks ladies. I am drained, my 3.5 yo has been unbelievably patient and understanding of me being attached to the baby and the computer all day today - I need to go give him some love before the baby wakes and needs me more.

This is why I love MDC, I really needed support and advice in a time when I went from feeling like I know so much to not knowing a thing.

Baby still sleeping...breathe.

[balancedmama]

I am glad baby is doing better. ABX were definitely the right choice here, ear infections can be tremendously painful.

[sbgrace]

I looked at that link and I'm still not seeing where there is any medical reason to think probiotics interfere with antibiotics? Are you talking about people's theories in the comments? I didn't see any medical information at all.

We got into a horrible mess when my son was on antibiotics (w/the mastoiditis in the hospital) and couldn't take anything by mouth so no probiotics. It took months to get his diarrhea under control after that. I've never had a problem with him otherwise when we've used probiotics throughout antibiotics.