So if you don't spank....what do you do?

[peaceful_mama]

What do you do with blatant out and out disrespect?

DD, age 3, spit in my mom's face tonight.

*I* would have been spanked for this. Absolutely no questions asked.

you have to know my dd to know that yes, she knew EXACTLY what she was doing, she was mad and she was letting her know. She knows full well it is wrong to spit at somebody, she was doing it precisely because she was angry and wanted to get a rise. (This is a highly intelligent, very verbal, intense, dramatic child. An absolute love.)

I heard about it after the fact.

So, what do you do? Because I know I don't want to spank for this kind of thing, but I want to make it absolutely 100% clear this is NOT COOL. (my first experience with a child who does this kind of thing DS1 never would have thought of it)

[COgirl19]

I have a similar question too, wish I had advice. DD does outright disrespect us sometimes (she is similar in age to your DD). In our family we want to make it very clear that this is inappropriate and won't be tolerated but I am not sure what to do. We try talking about her feelings but my only suggestion is maybe to say "I know you are angry but you cannot act this way...try this to release your anger..." The problem is that I don't know what "this" is and what would work for her. Punching a pillow? a time-out to cool down? I am still working on this.

ETA: One thing we have a time with is a blatant, obstinate "NO!" when we ask her to do something (like pick a toy she threw or something) I am clueless what to do here. I want to be gentle and understanding but I we need to help her understand that sometimes she must do what we ask (especially if it involves her safety).

[DevaMajka]

It's hard to answer that type of question, really. Because there isn't one thing that I do *instead* of spanking. There's not something that replaces spanking. It's a whole different type of relationship and interaction, kwim?

What I would likely do in that situation (I'm trying to think back to a situation where ds did something that was totally NOT ok, and I was completely appalled by what he did)

I respond with a "what in the world are you doing?!?!?!" type of voice. I say "NO! You can't do THAT!! No. Absolutely NOT ok." (This is said in a really firm "I mean it" voice, but not mean). Then I figure out what he was trying to express, and give him a more socially appropriate way to express it. If he's mad, I tell him that it's ok to be angry, but it's NOT ok to harm anyone or invade their space. I tell him that if he's angry he can X, Y, or Z.

Then later on, in a calm moment, I'd talk to him about the situation. It would be a light conversation, no blaming, no being mad. Just "You must have been angry earlier. What do you think you could have done instead of {what he did}?" Just kind of chit chatting about it.

I don't take hitting or any type of harming or invading others' space lightly. It always gets dealt with, and I definitely convey that it's completely unacceptable. But the key is to give them other ways to express themselves, and help them find ways that feel easy to them.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by peaceful_mama

What do you do with blatant out and out disrespect?

DD, age 3, spit in my mom's face tonight.

*I* would have been spanked for this. Absolutely no questions asked.

you have to know my dd to know that yes, she knew EXACTLY what she was doing, she was mad and she was letting her know. She knows full well it is wrong to spit at somebody, she was doing it precisely because she was angry and wanted to get a rise. (This is a highly intelligent, very verbal, intense, dramatic child. An absolute love.)

I heard about it after the fact.

So, what do you do? Because I know I don't want to spank for this kind of thing, but I want to make it absolutely 100% clear this is NOT COOL. (my first experience with a child who does this kind of thing DS1 never would have thought of it)

So you think she knows it's not cool already, right? Which is why she did it?

Originally Posted by COgirl19

I have a similar question too, wish I had advice. DD does outright disrespect us sometimes (she is similar in age to your DD). In our family we want to make it very clear that this is inappropriate and won't be tolerated but I am not sure what to do. We try talking about her feelings but my only suggestion is maybe to say "I know you are angry but you cannot act this way...try this to release your anger..." The problem is that I don't know what "this" is and what would work for her. Punching a pillow? a time-out to cool down? I am still working on this.

ETA: One thing we have a time with is a blatant, obstinate "NO!" when we ask her to do something (like pick a toy she threw or something) I am clueless what to do here. I want to be gentle and understanding but I we need to help her understand that sometimes she must do what we ask (especially if it involves her safety).

I think the thing to remember is that you can clearly communicate that it's uncool and inappropriate and disrespectful...without being disrespectful to the child.

It's much easier to communicate that, in fact, when you are modeling respect. I totally understand, BTW, and I fight my punitive impulses constantly, but I've also seen that these behaviors happen no matter what. And most kids grow out of them, and the more respectful you are of them, the faster they grow out of them.

[craft_media_hero]

I would have done an instant time-out on the spot.

I do talk with dd and figure out where the behavior is coming from together.

But for extreme and sudden disrespect with full knowledge of what's she's doing; I do think that there needs to be kind of a strong reaction so that the kid knows that what she did to Grandma is beyond the bounds of just acting out, yk?

BTW, my daughter sounds a lot like what you described. It is very challenging having an intelligent, spirited, verbal little girl, and I'm not the expert by any means.

But for my girl, she'd have got a time-out and then we'd have talked w/ gma about how she felt when dd spit in her face.

[RoViMama]

"DD, age 3, spit in my mom's face tonight."

My DD, age 3, did this very same thing to me last night, after she told her uncle to "Shut up you (something I didn't understand)"

"*I* would have been spanked for this. Absolutely no questions asked."

I had the same thoughts. As I was carrying her downstairs for an early bed time, I was thinking the same thing. I was taking deep breathes and I walked away (quickly) after she spit in my face.

"(This is a highly intelligent, very verbal, intense, dramatic child. An absolute love.) "

Same here. But I am partly to blame for this time. I know the reason Roey was acting like this was b/c she had eaten a candy necklace. She rarely has dyes or straight sugar and she becomes a different child when exposed to those things. Needless to say, the rest of the necklaces are in the trash. She did not like being by herself but she couldn't be with the rest of the family because she was not keeping our bodies safe. She had to apologize to her uncle and to me. (I think she understood this). We discussed keeping herself and this family safe.

But the old ways are in my brain. I do not act on them but the thoughts are there. I think I may error on the side of not doing anything b/c I'm not alwasy sure what the "right" thing is to do.

[GoBecGo]

My DD wouldn't do this i don't think. She hits, but spitting hasn't occurred to her, or maybe she's never seen it...? No idea.

Anyway if she spit in my face i would register, verbally and through expression/body language, DEEP disgust. I would stop immediately, mid-word even, and walk away. If she followed me (which of course she would) i would tell her that spitting is SO disgusting and SO disrespectful and SO revolting that i really couldn't look at her or speak to her for a little while. I would ask her to sit somewhere and have a think about how she'd behaved.

When i wasn't shaking with rage (and i WOULD be if anyone spit in my face!) i would talk to her, explain why i had reacted as i did, and then get an apology and have our usual make-up hug.

I don't know if any of that is "right" or AP, but i wouldn't spank and it's what i'd probably do.

[mamaofthree]

think even though your dd is very verbal and gets most things, i think still at three they do have a hard time always finding the words to say exactly how pissed off they are. yes, it is disrespectful, but was she being disrespected? not that it makes the spitting ok, but maybe would give you an idea of why she did it? maybe once everyone calms down i would talk with her, find out what happened from her view point.
an example: like your getting her ready for bed, she keeps saying she wants to stay up, but she needs to do to bed, so your not listening and she gets mad, because her words are not working so she spits. that is her way to get you to stop and listen. not the best method, but she is little and doesn't have a way to make you listen.
and i have to say that sometimes i lack words and some times i just scream (not at anyone, just sort of howl up at the sky) when i just can't figure out what to do.

[lynsage]

My daughter went through a spitting phase, and I consistently gave her timeouts in her room for it, and explained that her behavior was disrespectful, hurtful and rude and she can't expect people to want to be around her if that's how she treats them.

She got over it. It tapered off into doing it "playfully" with s sort of "cutesy" demeanor, which I think was her testing to see if she would still have consequences for it, and then completely stopped.

You know what helps me with not spanking, is just to tell myself I have NO RIGHT to hit my child, and so I must deal with her as I would deal with any other person who I have no right to hit. If you think of your kid as someone you are somehow "allowed" to hit, it's a lot easier to slip and fall back on spanking.

[mamazee]

Even if she's very verbal, that doesnt' mean she's good at talking about her emotions, or even understanding and processing her emotions.

"I understand you are angry, but we do not spit at people when we are angry." And then either give her an alternative, "Just tell grandma you are angry if you're angry." Or ask her to come up with an alternative. "Can you think of another, more respectful, way to let people know when you are angry."

Treat it like a teaching opportunity. Spitting is not OK, and this is how she is learning that. So talk to her about the big emotions she's feeling that make her want to spit, and then help her find ways to name and deal with her emotions that work and are respectful.

[waiting2bemommy]

The only thing that helps me, when I am THAT MAD (and I would be PISSED to have anyone spit in my face, least of all my own son) is to think about how I'd handle t if it were a child in my class (I used to teach preschool and also worked in a public school). Obviously I couldn't hit the kid, so what would do instead?

I really struggle too with not spanking for outright disrespect. It's hard to look at the long term effects sometimes when you are in the middle of a really hard parenting moment.

[Violet2]

We do consequences...

If you don't sit down while eating the popcicle, it goes in the garbage.

We take 'breaks' in the crib...

When you behave like this, it means you need a break. Do you need a break?

We distract...

Want a popsicle? Let's read a book. Where's the dog? Go give this random object to Daddy.

It's hard and imperfect. Especially when outside the home environment. We recently traveled by plane and it was a disaster on all fronts. By the end of the trip, I was physically pinning DD to my body b/c she persisted in running away, trying to get out the air terminal door into the street. I spent a lot of time reminding myself that spanking does not work.

Spanking never works. Other discipline options occasionally work or manifest positively at some distant point in the future so there's no immediate payoff, kwim? Overall, discipline is flawed and prone to gaps in efficacy imo. I don't think any discipline method really works all that great. Especially with younger kids. So it helps not to expect too much.

Spitting for me would be an immediate sharp and horrified NO probably followed by some yelling about unacceptable behavior (which isn't helpful) and removal from situation. As in, we're going home right now this instant and no more fun activities or visits for the day.

V

[prothyraia]

My three year old went through a spitting phase recently.

If he is not being civil enough to be around other people, we remove him from the situation. I'll either sit with him in the bedroom or, if he spits at me while I'm carrying him, I'll leave him by himself to try and get control of his body. He's allowed to come back whenever he wants (which is usually within a few seconds, heh), but we go right back into the bedroom if he does it again. We also encouraged him to verbalize his emotions ("I'm mad!!!!") instead of spitting.

It rarely happens any more.

[sgmom]

Originally Posted by craft_media_hero

I would have done an instant time-out on the spot.

I do talk with dd and figure out where the behavior is coming from together.

But for extreme and sudden disrespect with full knowledge of what's she's doing; I do think that there needs to be kind of a strong reaction so that the kid knows that what she did to Grandma is beyond the bounds of just acting out, yk?

I agree (sort of). I would first give her the option of helping grandma clean her face, but if she refused then she would be immediately sat to watch grandma clean it up herself, while I explained that there are better ways to deal with anger (I would also explain that the mess grandma is cleaning, was made by her - by this time I would assume that she knew to clean up her own messes). She would then get a time out (which I almost never agree with), and when time out was done, we would discuss (calmly) her reasons for why she felt so angry in the first place.

I would basically treat it the same way as if she were to hit, kick, or bite. The difference being that spitting hurts emotionally (as opposed to physically), but my point is that she's still acting out in anger, and that's what I would deal with (not specifically the action itself, although that would definitely be addressed).

[sgmom]

Originally Posted by mamazee

Even if she's very verbal, that doesnt' mean she's good at talking about her emotions, or even understanding and processing her emotions.

"I understand you are angry, but we do not spit at people when we are angry." And then either give her an alternative, "Just tell grandma you are angry if you're angry." Or ask her to come up with an alternative. "Can you think of another, more respectful, way to let people know when you are angry."

Treat it like a teaching opportunity. Spitting is not OK, and this is how she is learning that. So talk to her about the big emotions she's feeling that make her want to spit, and then help her find ways to name and deal with her emotions that work and are respectful.

I love this. This is the reason why I would not remove her from the situation until after she's seen (and understood) what just happened. And even then, a time out would ONLY happen in my home if the child were not showing ANY signs of remorse. The time out would be a "calm down" period (of probably one minute) and when they are ready to talk, we will reconnect and discuss it in a similar manner mentioned above.

[nd_deadhead]

I have never been a fan of time-outs, but I do believe in removing a child from an emotionally charged situation.

Others have already said what I would say regarding spanking. I always try to remember that the word discipline means "to teach", not to punish. Teaching a child how TO behave is more effective than teaching them what NOT to do, but it is an ongoing process. A child learns to treat others with respect by watching his parents treat others with respect - including the child himself.

Spitting is disgusting, and evokes a very visceral response in adults - but it probably doesn't create the same feelings in a young child. Little kids figure out what is and is not appropriate by trying things out - the first time he climbs up on the kitchen counter to get to the cookie jar, he doesn't realize it's dangerous. Same with spitting. The first time simething happens I treat it as a learning experience - and the lesson is that we do NOT spit! If it continues, that's a different story.

I have twin boys, and when they were that age, if I stopped one from doing something (like standing on a chair), the other would invariably do exactly the same thing. They hadn't made the generalization yet that the rules applied equally to both of them (or they figured they had better check to make sure). They simply weren't able to learn from each other's mistakes at that age (luckily that changed!)

[ssh]

We discuss rude behavior with my 4 year DD when she is calm. She's very social and cares about how other people feel about her so I focus on how other people respond to rudeness and how our behavior and choices are an expression of what kind of person we want to be. We've been dealing with yelling and being bossy lately, so we talk about how she would feel if people yelled at her or rudely ordered her to do stuff. Then we talk about what other people might think of us if we treat them that way ....etc.

We mainly teach manners and respect by modeling it. I also remind myself that my DD is still very much learning how to be a person, especially learning how to deal appropriately with strong emotions. Our DD is also very intense and dramatic but wasn't very verbal early (she verbal now). Her first impulse when angry is to shout, throw something or both. We've gotten to where she says she's angry, goes to her room and slams the door. Sometimes I will suggest she go to her room until she feels less rude.

[buckeye_bebe]

If ya don't spank, ya beat em like a gong. But in all seriousness, with the spitting thing, I took a different approach and made it fun to spit until she got it out of her system. Oh you bet I wanted yell and time out and go back to yelling after the time out. I took a sharp loud tone and did the NO! NO SPITTING AT PEOPLE thing. Then I took her outside with a cup and a pitcher of water and she got to spit water all over the dirt and grass. until she had enough fun with that. She's done it once since then, and that wasn't a real spit, it was a pretend spit, so she got the raised voice, the cup and pitcher, and outside in the grass treatment again. I think it is safe to say there is no more issue now.

And now the rule is, if you have to spit, you spit in the toilet, or go outside and do it discreetly and privately. Very rarely do I turn a punishment in to something enjoyable or an experiment for her, but I think some things are more productive that way. Good luck.

[VisionaryMom]

It's important to remember that spanking isn't being replaced. When I view parents who spank, I really view their relationship as completely punitive - "you will do what I say because I'm bigger" - and that's not my goal for parenting. My goal is to teach my children how to grow into kind, compassionate people.

Neither of my children have ever spit at us, though DD does sometimes spit into the toilet. Spitting for whatever reason just gags me, so I'm sure *my* reaction would be to gag just out of reflex.

I do put my children into time-outs for things that I view as particularly egregious, such as hitting. Spitting probably would go there as well, though not the first time. Time-outs for us are not isolated painful events. They're more "clearly you need a break from everyone," and yes now to my 5YO they are a loss of freedom for a short time.

I also think it's important to note that there's no universal answer to this situation. What I'd actually do in the specific scenario depends on why she did it, what else was going on, her usual relationship with Grandma, etc.

[madskye]

I'd do an immediate time out with a STERN TALKING TO at that point. I rarely break out the "punitive language" but I think spitting combined with Grandma would really tweak me out.

She is really little, she is learning what's expected of her, and what's not ok, a spanking isn't going to help matters at all--but I think this is a situation that I would want to be VERY clear that her actions were unnacceptable.

My DD went through a thing where she did not like her great-grandma, and was very rude to her when she was three. She was also verbal, and spirited, and the only thing that got through to her was me actually demonstrating and telling her how horrified and upset her behavior made me. I told her that I loved Great-Grandma very much--so hurting her feelings just hurt my feelings! It was honestly more words, and deeper than I felt like I should go with DD, but she either got what I was saying, or she could see that I was angry, red-faced, and sputtering and it made an impact. Either way, my reaction was honest and from the gut and though I wouldn't live it again if I had the choice--she did get it/change her behavior going forward.

Not easy, mama--I'm sorry you have to deal with this!