How do you gently night wean at 40 months?

[DoubleLove]

I feel ready to get a full nights sleep with out being woke by DD to nurse. How can I best make this transition? She can fall asleep with just stories, and I'm even away working night shift 5 nights every two weeks, so I know she can easily fall back asleep with out nursing, but if I'm home she wants it several times every night. She'll start crying loudly if I ask her to wait until morning, and I feel at a loss.

Is there a nice way to ask this?

[sweetpeppers]

interested...

My son is turning 3 tomorrow, and I'm getting tired of nursing all night. It just always seems easier than the alternative (hysterical crying). I'm single too, so it's not like I can just leave him for my husband to deal with. He knows I have the milk...

[pinky]

There's certainly plenty of information out there about strategies for nightweaning. My experience, though, is that you have to trust your gut and follow the lead of your particular child. Mine were completely different. DD #1 transitioned pretty easily to nighttime parenting (at least some of the time) with her dad, which resulted in better sleep for all of us. Really--it was like magic--she went from waking every 90 minutes to sleeping a 6-8 hour stretch. DD #2 was completely different. Trying to limit night nursing was an exercise in frustration for all of us...she was just awake and pissed. So we all were, too. I did stop nursing her at night for awhile, but her sleep did not improve at all. So I went back to night-nursing. She is 5, and in the last few months has stopped nursing at night completely. But she still wakes up. She's a very intense little person and I'm just doing my best to ride it out with her.

Bottom line--like with all things, there's no one right way. Good luck in finding an approach that works for your family.

[JessicaS]

A 3.5 year old is old enough to discuss it. Why don't you talk to them about it?

[MeepyCat]

My experience with weaning is that, however gently and gradually you approach it, there is likely to be a point where the transition from "some" to "none" hits a rough patch. With, I am sorry to say, screaming.

I night-weaned my son by sleeping in a high-necked sports-bra top and offering water and crackers when he asked to nurse in the middle of the night. If water and crackers were not of interest, that I could cuddle, or rub his back, or just sit with him. I didn't offer to nurse. I said no if he asked. It took about a week, there was some yelling, but we got through.

[elmh23]

I told them the nursies were going night night and they could nurse in the morning. When they woke up at night, I offered them a sippy cup of milk and cuddled with them and they went back to sleep.

There were some tears, but honestly, I wouldn't expect there not to be. Your child is 3.5, so you're more than capable of having a conversation with her that you're tired and need to sleep so no more night nursies, but also emphasize the cuddles.

[annettemarie]

I'm going to move this out to Breastfeeding Beyond Infancy since nightweaning is a mother-led weaning technique.

[JessicaS]

FWIW the night time nursing was the last nursing that my dd did. That last nursing session before she fell asleep was the very last one she gave up.

At 3 you can always sit down and discuss it but I would have a talk during the day not at night. Maybe the two of you can go out to dinner and have a big "big girl" discussion? Make a big deal of it not just something to try.

When my dd was weaning we spent a LOT of extra time together going to fun places together. They might cling a little more closely because they want to be close, they don't want to let go. You can show them that there are other ways of being close and that growing older grants additional privileges. Of course you don't have to fully wean but getting through the night is a pretty big thing

[annettemarie]

I agree that it's much easier to nightwean when they're older. You can talk about day and night, the sun and the moon. We used to say that the milkers were going night night.

[DoubleLove]

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. I really don't want this to cause stress in her life, as I know she already feels enough stress about me working part-time nights, plus she often verbalizes sadness over her premature birth, and she LOVES nursing more than anything. I'm committed to CLW for the long haul but I'm looking for a way to have her gradually nurse less at night, but I can't figure out how to ask this of her without lots of resistance. I guess I posted under CLW (but this thread was moved!) hoping I could find some tips on how I could have her feel like the idea was coming from her rather than me. Don't us mamas do this for so many other things (like potty training, etc)? I guess I should have explained this better in my opening post.

I wish I didn't have to ask this of her, but if we are to continue nursing peacefully for several more years, I need to enjoy it more with her. I love our day time nursing, even though it isn't physically comfortable for me. You see, I only lactate on one side and my supply is down to drops so all nursing is painful and I gets lots of blisters (she self weaned last year for a month after I had a surgery and I dried up. It never came back much when she self-unweaned). Being stuck in the same position for sometimes hours straight really causes problems in my already aching back (left over from a twin pregnancy, plus being an OB RN bending over beds) and I'm left knowing we have to make a change. I can no longer sleep while she nurses, and as we all know sleep is essential for optimal health!

When night weaning did finally happen for you, how did it happen?

Did you somehow gently encourage it so that your child perceived it as their idea? ...or is that just not possible yet at 40 months?

FWIW: DH is *not* the person DD wants to see at night when I'm home at night, but she does just fine with him when I'm away working (again, I work part-time night shift). Oh and I exclusively pumped for DS (18 mo!) and he was bottle-fed relating to their 8 week premature birth. He is finally night weaning, but that was a totally different challenge since it was a bottle!

[ccohenou]

Nursing is a relationship between two people. It does involve some give and take. If you are in pain, blistered, hurting, not sleeping, it sounds like night nursing is not working for you. You don't have to make her see it as her idea - you can draw a boundary about your own body. "Mommy is not going to nurse at night any longer because we both need to sleep." A typically developing 3.5 year old can understand, if not appreciate, the fact that you are no longer willing to nurse at night, and will adjust to it.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by ccohenou

Nursing is a relationship between two people. It does involve some give and take. If you are in pain, blistered, hurting, not sleeping, it sounds like night nursing is not working for you. You don't have to make her see it as her idea - you can draw a boundary about your own body. "Mommy is not going to nurse at night any longer because we both need to sleep." A typically developing 3.5 year old can understand, if not appreciate, the fact that you are no longer willing to nurse at night, and will adjust to it.

: Why does it have to be her idea? I don't even really see how that is advantageous. You're the mommy. You are older and wiser and you know that this is best. Don't give her the responsibility of making a decision that she is not developmentally ready to make. That's your job. Let her be the child that she is.

[DoubleLove]

Originally Posted by D_McG

: Why does it have to be her idea? I don't even really see how that is advantageous. You're the mommy. You are older and wiser and you know that this is best. Don't give her the responsibility of making a decision that she is not developmentally ready to make. That's your job. Let her be the child that she is.

Well I do feel a little insulted, but I also appreciate being asked to really examine my thoughts on this. We as mothers all have reasons why we consciously choose the approaches we do, as we know our children best. My DD is extremely strong willed and spirited and when she isn't in agreement with something, all of our lives are made miserable. Yes, I'm miserable with night nursing but I just keep taking it, because sometimes that's just the sacrifice mamas make for the sake of the whole family. She has huge control issues and change is very hard for her, *unless* the change is her idea. You see, she was yanked out of the womb 2 months prematurely because her twin's water was broke, forcing her premature birth. She was terribly depressed as a newborn and didn't even take to nursing until she was 3+ months old, needing a feeding tube before that.

I already know she doesn't agree with night weaning and my gentle efforts have not worked so far. That's why I'm seeking techniques from all you great experienced mamas. Of course, I don't want this to be traumatic for her (or me!). Unfortunately she doesn't buy the idea that "noonie" is asleep like the sun. I like the idea of having a special dinner where we have a big girl talk.

[JessicaS]

If it is painful for you then it wouldn't be the end of the world if the two of you weaned together.

I disagree that a three year old isn't old enough to decide they are ready to wean. My own dd made that decision at that age. It can be empowering.

[detroitgirl77]

I have successfully nightweaned twice. My oldest I nightweaned at age 2 when I was 8 months preggo with his brother. I talked to him about it, told him that he doesn't nurse upstairs(where we sleep). We cosleep, so I would cuddle with him instead until falling asleep. It took about a week until he stopped asking. He still was able to nurse throughout the day though.

With my 2nd boy, I started nightweaning him at age 2 as well, after discovering we were expecting #3. I expected more problems with him since he is a huge nurser, and didn't really eat much in the way of food. He took to it pretty well, and good plus out of it is that he has started to eat much more food. He will still nurse a million times during the day if I let him though. I don't want to be nursing 2 at night, since I had a friend who did that with her toddler and newborn and would get no sleep since they were on different nursing schedules.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by abimommy

I disagree that a three year old isn't old enough to decide they are ready to wean. My own dd made that decision at that age. It can be empowering.

I wasn't clear. I agree that a 3 year old can self-wean. I do NOT agree that a 3 year old is capable of weighing up the situation from everyone's perspective and making a balanced, mature decision as to the obvious solution.

In this situation where the mom is in pain and not sleeping. I see no reason at all why she would continue to nurse. I just don't see it.

OP - I read your response but it's not really anything that I believe. Newborn depression, etc. Just not where I'm at. I also don't believe that a 3.5 year old should be allowed to make everyone's lives 'miserable' because she is nightweaned. To me that's a behavioral issue. But I hope you can find some solution from like-minded mothers!

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by DoubleLove

My DD is extremely strong willed and spirited and when she isn't in agreement with something, all of our lives are made miserable. Yes, I'm miserable with night nursing but I just keep taking it, because sometimes that's just the sacrifice mamas make for the sake of the whole family.

I have to say, I could not disagree with this more.

There are sacrifices I make for the good of the whole family, but I feel like this particular sacrifice is already coming back around to bite you. You're tired. You have back problems. These things affect your ability to work in your profession and to function day to day. They affect your ability to interact with and enjoy your children.

The misery of weaning is real, but it is temporary. It lasts a week or two at most. It seems unlikely to me that you will get the magic easy weaning version (it actually seems to me like you got it a year ago, and then reversed - sorry, mama, I think that was your best opportunity to do this gently). The misery you are going through has the potential to last a lot longer. This is the kind of situation in which parents often agree that they're just going to put up with a rough patch, and remind each other that it'll be better on the other side.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by D_McG

I wasn't clear. I agree that a 3 year old can self-wean. I do NOT agree that a 3 year old is capable of weighing up the situation from everyone's perspective and making a balanced, mature decision as to the obvious solution.

In this situation where the mom is in pain and not sleeping. I see no reason at all why she would continue to nurse. I just don't see it.

OP - I read your response but it's not really anything that I believe. Newborn depression, etc. Just not where I'm at. I also don't believe that a 3.5 year old should be allowed to make everyone's lives 'miserable' because she is nightweaned. To me that's a behavioral issue. But I hope you can find some solution from like-minded mothers!

I was diagnosed with an illness when my dd was around that age and I had to start meds. We discussed it and decided to wean together.

I don't think a 3.5 year old should be able to make everyone's lives miserable either.

You dd is not in charge, you are. If she has huge control issues it is just going to get worse. I would really try and get a handle on that.

[annettemarie]

It's hard, because there's this little tiny person who is the center of your universe, and you want more than anything to be happy. So you find yourself making concessions where you are unhappy but she gets what she wants, so you can keep the peace. The problem is, little tiny people grow up to be big people with big expectations that they're always going to get what they want. IMO, it's better to deal with these things when they're little. I think of the metaphor Dr. Sears uses in The Discipline Book where we think of these habits as "something they'll grow out of. But instead of shedding the old habits, they just keep piling on new bad habits, and eventually you're stuck dealing with layer upon layer of negative habits that you ignored just for the sake of keeping the peace.

Which sounds a whole lot more like Gentle Discipline than nightweaning.

But, bringing it back, it makes me think of another Dr. Sears quote-- discipline begins at the breast. If your daughter doesn't buy the whole "milkers go night night" scenario and if you can't come to a compromise that makes you both happy, it could be the perfect opportunity to teach her the word "no". I believe it can be done in a loving way, and I believe that a mother's needs are important as well.

I'm not trying to come down on you. I just think if you're wanting to nightwean AND you want it to be 100% your daughter's idea so there's no tears and no dischord, you could be waiting a very very long time. Child led weaning is great if that's something you're committed to. But gentle mother-led weaning is great too if that's going to bring some peace to your family.

Good luck! (And pardon my ramblings, LOL!)

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by abimommy

I was diagnosed with an illness when my dd was around that age and I had to start meds. We discussed it and decided to wean together.

I don't think a 3.5 year old should be able to make everyone's lives miserable either.

You dd is not in charge, you are. If she has huge control issues it is just going to get worse. I would really try and get a handle on that.

OK. Just my 3 year old then . For real it's amazing the difference in kids. DS seems positively infantile as compared to his 'girl' friends! I think it's very sweet that you decided to wean together!