Jewish Mamas-positive bris experiences?

[CrunchyParent]

I hope that I am respectfully operating within the MDC guidelines. My husband and I are both Jewish (reform) and our religion/spirituality is very meaningful to us and to our children (2 girls). The issue of circumcision has come more into my conscious mind since my second pregnancy, when I began to consider a sense of conflict between the religious belief that it was commanded by G-d that Jewish boys be circ'd and my maternal instinct that this was not something that I could imagine myself doing to/for my son. The discussion was fuel for much debate between DH and I, with family, etc. That said, we had a girl so it became a non-issue (and we had never reached a decision).

The issue was the primary reason that we decided to find out the gender of our third child, and we have been blessed with a boy. I will be bringing him into the world next month. Circ is still an issue that plagues my brain. Were I not Jewish, I do not believe that I would feel any conflict over not circing a son, but I am Jewish and I feel a great deal of conflict-perhaps that is what G-d intended....

Anyway, I say this not to create debate, but to give you some background about my situation. I honestly can't currently picture myself going through with circ/bris and feeling at peace with the decision (although I will feel a sense of loss from the community gathering/celebration aspect if we forego a bris), but I can't picture myself at peace with not doing it either, from the perspective of my relationship with G-d, although I certainly donot follow all of G-d's commandments as spelled out in the Torah.

I have sought out/read arguments for why Jews choose not to circ/regret circing, what I would love to hear now is the perspective of those who had positive bris experiences for their sons...what did you do, consider, envision, etc. that made the event meaningful for you and not traumatic? I'm not looking to be convinced, perse I'm just looking for perspectives that I can try on that might make the right decision for me a little clearer/easier.

TIA for sharing your experiences. Again, I am not looking to solicit debate, just to have a window of insight into the experiences of others to see if I can find some things that resonate with me.

[chely7425]

My family is Jewish and both my sons had a bris milah. My father held both the babies during the whole thing (which is tradition) and he talked to them and stroked their cheeks and explained to them what was going on and why we were doing it. The mohel who did it is a family friend and was very loving. While I felt some conflict about circ-ing seeing all the love in the room from our family and friends made it ok for me. My first son didn't even notice, he basically slept through the whole thing. My second son didn't notice the circ but got mad when they put his diaper back on! I hope that helps, I know how hard a decision this is!

[imnottelling]

I think it's important to realize the very big difference between a bris milah and a surgical procedure.
A competent mohel (ask for recommendations; don't choose one blindly!) will be quicker. The environment is not cold and sterile, but full of love with family members and friends holding the baby, stroking his cheek, etc the whole time.
I found the experience positive. My babies cried when they got cold from the diaper being removed (as they did at that age by diaper changes!); not that much more from the quick procedure. We did find out which mohelim around were more experienced and took shorter. I made sure to meet with our mohel before, and he was very reassuring and told us what we needed to know and checked back on the baby later...

[Sweetiemommy]

We also had three very positive experiences. Our mohel was very friendly and kind, I agree with the pp who stated that a bris is very different from the surgical procedure. The mohel even uses traditional tools, rather than a scalpel. It is a spiritual thing, rather than a cosmetic thing. Our older (5 and 3) two boys were recently present for our youngest son's circumcision. Despite being extremely protective of the baby, the mohel explained everything to them as he performed the bris and talked them about the traditions and history. The boys were fine with watching and the baby was also fine (he did use a painkiller). He was a little fussy that evening, but just nursed extra, it is now a week later and he is fine. I never experienced any breast feeding problems or perceived or real changes in any of the boys after the bris. I found it to be a very positive experience and that is coming from someone who also struggled with the decision(s) and had many long talks with dh. I believe it is important for both cultural and religious reasons. I also believe in leaving the decision up to the father. It is a tradition passed on from father to son. Women were not even traditionally included in the ceremony. So I was ultimately okay with leaving the decision in dh's hands and I felt that it was important to support him in his convictions. That isn't going to win me any popularity contests here at MDC, but that isn't my goal in life, kwim?

And by the way, if you think the whole circumcision thing is difficult to handle, imagine how Abraham felt on the altar with Issac. Dh had to explain that whole story to the kids the same night, you can imagine what an interesting conversation that was!

[Mommal]

I remember my brother's bris. Family and friends gathered round. The new baby in his grandfather's arms. The mohel leaned in. A touch of wine in the baby's mouth. A brief cry, and the next instant my brother was in my mom's arms, nursing. Totally different from the videos you see of medical circumcisions, with the clinical atmosphere and parents/family nowhere to be seen.

[Faliciagayle]

We just made a brit for our son, B"H, very recently.

I was nervous going into it... frankly nervous the entire pregnancy (we did an ultrasound for gender). I think it's normal to question and gather information, especially if one operates in an attachment/natural parenting type of community. By that I mean I was never aware of opposition to circumcision (Jewish or not) before I found my way to AP.

Gd knows I don't keep all the mitzvot but those I keep I strive for mindfulness and holiness in my actions. Brit milah is holy. The experience was beautiful. We chose our mohel carefully. I asked a LOT of questions - mainly to other Jewish AP mamas. DH only got involved after the birth and he realized exactly what it meant that this was his mitzvah. He read and davened and spoke with others, including rabbis and mohelim. We ended up doing all the things traditional for a boy in his first week (shalom zachor, vach nacht, brit). At the brit itself the Rabbi got all the men involved, and the mohel was loving and quick. DS was passed from me to SIL, to MIL, to my mom, to my dad, to FIL. He was held the entire time. After the brit he was named, I took him, he nursed.

Thank Gd we live in a place where we don't have to hide or fear death for making brit milah. This was driven home for me during our son's brit, a Monday morning, taking place at a shul with windows open to a very busy street during morning commute with kids walking to school. There was no fear. Brit milah has existed for us in an unbroken line from the time of Avraham Avinu. There is much beauty and power and holiness in that.

[Sweetiemommy]

What a beautiful post, thank you for that. What a great reminder of all we have to be thankful for.

Originally Posted by Faliciagayle

We just made a brit for our son, B"H, very recently.

I was nervous going into it... frankly nervous the entire pregnancy (we did an ultrasound for gender). I think it's normal to question and gather information, especially if one operates in an attachment/natural parenting type of community. By that I mean I was never aware of opposition to circumcision (Jewish or not) before I found my way to AP.

Gd knows I don't keep all the mitzvot but those I keep I strive for mindfulness and holiness in my actions. Brit milah is holy. The experience was beautiful. We chose our mohel carefully. I asked a LOT of questions - mainly to other Jewish AP mamas. DH only got involved after the birth and he realized exactly what it meant that this was his mitzvah. He read and davened and spoke with others, including rabbis and mohelim. We ended up doing all the things traditional for a boy in his first week (shalom zachor, vach nacht, brit). At the brit itself the Rabbi got all the men involved, and the mohel was loving and quick. DS was passed from me to SIL, to MIL, to my mom, to my dad, to FIL. He was held the entire time. After the brit he was named, I took him, he nursed.

Thank Gd we live in a place where we don't have to hide or fear death for making brit milah. This was driven home for me during our son's brit, a Monday morning, taking place at a shul with windows open to a very busy street during morning commute with kids walking to school. There was no fear. Brit milah has existed for us in an unbroken line from the time of Avraham Avinu. There is much beauty and power and holiness in that.

[Anandamama]

I wish my nephew's bris had been peaceful and loving like the others described here. The baby was given some drops of wine. The mohel strapped him to a cushion that had restraining straps on it. I don't any anesthesia was given. When the baby was cut he screamed but no sound came out. His face and body were contorted and tensed, but no sound. It was shocking. My brother turned white as a sheet and looked like he might pass out. My sister-in-law couldn't watch. The baby slept for a long time after that. It was so heartbreaking to see this baby who had been cared for so tenderly for his short 8 days of life to be subjected to this. I'm glad to know it's not always like this.

[chely7425]

Originally Posted by Anandamama

I wish my nephew's bris had been peaceful and loving like the others described here. The baby was given some drops of wine. The mohel strapped him to a cushion that had restraining straps on it. I don't any anesthesia was given. When the baby was cut he screamed but no sound came out. His face and body were contorted and tensed, but no sound. It was shocking. My brother turned white as a sheet and looked like he might pass out. My sister-in-law couldn't watch. The baby slept for a long time after that. It was so heartbreaking to see this baby who had been cared for so tenderly for his short 8 days of life to be subjected to this. I'm glad to know it's not always like this.

This is definitely not the norm from what I have seen. I have huge Jewish family with a TON of boys and all the bris milahs I have ever been to have been loving kind positive experiences. The babies sometimes cried from being cold or from having their diapers put back on (my kids were/are nudist... what can I say) but it has never been a bad experience. As a PP said, the mohel we used was a family friend who was very experience and also knew and loved my children. We actually met with him a couple times before our first son was born so my DH could talk to him and just to make us comfortable with everything.

[merpk]

Originally Posted by Anandamama

I wish my nephew's bris had been peaceful and loving like the others described here. The baby was given some drops of wine. The mohel strapped him to a cushion that had restraining straps on it. I don't any anesthesia was given. When the baby was cut he screamed but no sound came out. His face and body were contorted and tensed, but no sound. It was shocking. My brother turned white as a sheet and looked like he might pass out. My sister-in-law couldn't watch. The baby slept for a long time after that. It was so heartbreaking to see this baby who had been cared for so tenderly for his short 8 days of life to be subjected to this. I'm glad to know it's not always like this.

I have never seen an Orthodox mohel use any restraints at the bris. Ever.

I have seen a baby react like you describe at one bris. Only once. And that bris was performed by the baby's grandfather, who was a surgeon. Yes, he was Orthodox, and yes, he's a surgeon, so they must've thought, hey, great, let him do it, why bother hiring a mohel.

Wrongo Ringo.

A mohel is a specialist. Orthodox mohelim, in particular, do hundreds of brissim a month (keeping in mind the much-higher birth rates in the Orthodox communities). If you don't know of a mohel to call, call your local Chabad.






FWIW, my boys literally only cried a second each. Literally. And I kind of kept track, because in my community, my rebbe taught that the moment of a baby's cries at the bris is the highest, holiest time to daven (pray) for the baby, for his future, for his health, for his happiness ... and at my boys' brissim I had so much to say to G!d, it's such an emotional and difficult mitzva that I prepared so intensely for it ... and then had no time to say it all. From opening the diaper to closing the diaper up again was (and this is no exaggeration) less than two minutes. Each one it took longer to give him a name than to do the mila (okay, everyone who knows my kids' names can laugh now, because my kids have long names LOL).


Within minutes, literally, they were nursing. I remember one of them holding my fingers while he nursed, eyes open, looking at me, looking around.



I'd never, ever say it was painless. The Torah makes it clear to us that it's not. But I bless you and me and all of us that that should be the end of all pain for all of our children, and they should never, ever in their lives feel anything but healing and joy.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by merpk

I'd never, ever say it was painless. The Torah makes it clear to us that it's not. But I bless you and me and all of us that that should be the end of all pain for all of our children, and they should never, ever in their lives feel anything but healing and joy.

Amen!

My son's bris, though I would never wish it on anyone, was peaceful and loving. There was lots of family and community around, and he literally was in someone's arms the entire time, drinking a bottle of expressed milk. Within a minute of the cut, he was back in mine and nursing.

Get an orthodox mohel, even though you're reform, and go the traditional route as closely as possible. It will truly make the difference for you. I have so many friends (we're reform as well) who just "do it at the hospital" even though it doesn't count and is more painful and has ZERO community involved that it makes me want to cry. If you are committed to this mitzvah, recognize the sacrifice that goes along with it and commit yourself to making it as gentle as possible.

If we have another boy, I wouldn't change a thing about the way we did it last time. We were surrounded by loving community who understood what the mitzvah meant - and it made all the difference.

[Magelet]

Will orthodox rabbis perform bris for families who aren't always traditionally accepted by orthodox judaism? (interfaith, converts with non-orthodox rabbis, etc) I'm curious for myself for future boys, because while I know the conservative movement has started training? certifying? mohels, they're usually doctors and don't do as many circumcisions.

(sorry to hijack)

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by Magelet

Will orthodox rabbis perform bris for families who aren't always traditionally accepted by orthodox judaism? (interfaith, converts with non-orthodox rabbis, etc) I'm curious for myself for future boys, because while I know the conservative movement has started training? certifying? mohels, they're usually doctors and don't do as many circumcisions.

(sorry to hijack)

Yes. I am a convert in the reform movement with a non-Jewish husband. Our orthodox mohel was wonderful and inclusive.

Both the conservative and reform movement have started to train mohels, but I'd only trust them as far as I'd trust a doctor (which is to say, they're coming nowhere near one of my sons ).

[merpk]

Originally Posted by Magelet

Will orthodox rabbis perform bris for families who aren't always traditionally accepted by orthodox judaism? (interfaith, converts with non-orthodox rabbis, etc) I'm curious for myself for future boys, because while I know the conservative movement has started training? certifying? mohels, they're usually doctors and don't do as many circumcisions.

(sorry to hijack)

I've been to quite a number of brissim with "nontraditional" families ... nonJewish mothers and Jewish fathers, particularly ... and they've each had Orthodox mohelim.

The mohel who did the brissim for my brother's nonJewish children (his children's mother is not Jewish) made a point of saying that the bris was in anticipation of possible geyrus (conversion) for both mother and child.

[Sweetiemommy]

Our mohel does perform circumcision for interfaith, reform, even Christian and Muslim families. He explains that we have more in common (from a relgious perspective) than we have differences. I tend to agree. He just performs the procedure in the home and doesn't do the traditional ceremony you would see at a bris. There is another mohel in the area (and I believe his father is also a mohel) and they also do circumcision on non-Jewish families, interfaith, etc.

[Magelet]

Thanks. That's reassuring. I mentioned last night that if we have a son I want an orthodox mohel, and I think DP was worried that it would mean that he would be left out or something. But like you said smei, I wouldn't let a conservative mohel near any sons of mine for the purposes of circumcision anymore than I would a doctor, either.

[umsami]

Originally Posted by Magelet

Will orthodox rabbis perform bris for families who aren't always traditionally accepted by orthodox judaism? (interfaith, converts with non-orthodox rabbis, etc) I'm curious for myself for future boys, because while I know the conservative movement has started training? certifying? mohels, they're usually doctors and don't do as many circumcisions.

(sorry to hijack)

Couldn't help but respond. I'm Muslim...and when I lived in Brooklyn, a lot of Muslim families used Orthodox mohels for the circ. (We circ too...same reason. ) I never heard of there being any issues in being denied...and everybody I know had a really positive experience. Did some get refused? Perhaps...but there always seemed to be another mohel willing to help. So, if it's not an issue for us distant religious cousins...I would think you would be able to find somebody to work with you.

We had hosptial circs...and although painless due to anesthesia, it did lose something being in a hospital/surgical setting.