Meltdown help please

[shelleyd]

I often see here on MDC where other parents talk about meltdowns and it is hard for me to know if we're talking about the same thing. I sometimes think that my dd's meltdowns are a normal thing and other times I wonder if she is completely not normal in this. I just want to hear from others what a typical meltdown is like and at what age they stop.

When my dd has a meltdown, she screams for anywhere from 20min to an hour. And by screaming I mean she is screaming like somebody is torturing her and repeating one thing over and over. The entire time she also kicks and writhes around on the floor. She is so filled with intense energy that she shakes and wrings her hands, scratches the floor, bites things, et cetera. She is completely unable to be still during the entire meltdown. I'm trying to get her to understand that she is disruptive to the family when she acts this way. I tell her that it is okay to be angry and overwhelmed but she needs to scream into her pillow. However she refuses to listen to this or any request in the midst of a meltdown. She is four years old. I don't know if I'm expecting too much out of her to learn to stop but on the other hand I want her to learn that that is not an appropriate way to act.

I'd like to hear others experiences with meltdowns and if they are similar and also when they stopped. Oh and if anyone has a magic bullet to make one stop once its in high gear, I'm all ears

[beanma]

I would say that's a little more intense than average for sure. I would talk to her about it after the fact or at another time and see if she has any ideas about what you could do to help her. Obviously this does not mean give her all the chocolate in the house or anything.

You might keep a journal and note anything that was happening prior to the meltdown. I know some parents report food triggers (eating a trigger food, or alternately not having enough to eat) or other environmental triggers like too much TV, or maybe not enough sleep.

For books I like Kids, Parents and Power Struggles by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka and The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.

My dd1 was a very intense 4 yr old and prone to dissolving in a puddle on the floor. She was never violent, though (no scratching or biting anyone or anything). There was a lot of caterwauling, but she could listen a bit. She often wanted me to hold her. (some melting down kids hate this!). Her meltdowns could last a long time, but I don't recall them being quite as intense as you're describing in terms of almost violence or inability to listen.

I see that you have a younger one, too. Those were definitely the most intense times for me. I remember having to get down on the floor in the hall with my melting down 3.4/4 yr old with my baby in the sling as we were trying to leave to go somewhere. Whew!

My dd1 is almost 9 now and still a pretty intense personality, but she's easier to talk down now. My dd2 is easier still in some respects, but she can hold onto just a low level grump like nobody's business. I think we're all different. I know DH can let go of being angry a lot easier than I can. I really have to work at it or I'll start holding a grudge. Once dd1 is done being upset she's usually okay, so that's good. The fact that she can fly off the handle at almost anything, not so good... She is much, much better than she used to be, though, but I imagine she'll always be on the high end of normal about that sort of thing.

hth

[Magella]

I agree that what you describe sounds more intense than usual. I have a child, now 10, who would have really intense, lengthy meltdowns when she was younger. I think her record was an hour and a half.

First, I think it's important (for your own sanity) to realize that once your child is in the midst of such an intense meltdown, her emotions are so overwhelming that she is *unable* to stop when you tell her to stop. People in the midst of such strong emotions actually do not function, cognitively, at the same level as they do when calm. So, while you may be able to prevent some meltdowns, you can't always stop them once they've begun. I say this not to be discouraging, but because I remember being so very frustrated before I realized this.

One thing I found helpful was to learn to recognize signs of an impending meltdown. Sometimes when I saw signs it was coming, or at the first bits of crying before she was totally out of control, I could sort of engage dd's thinking brain--ask her an interesting question that she'd have to think about, bring up an interesting topic--and this would head off a complete meltdown. Once my dd was a little older, when she started to get upset I could remind her to take some deep breaths and stay calm (sometimes that worked to head off a meltdown and sometimes it didn't).

I also found that the less I talked to or attempted to touch (I used to offer hugs, try to rub her back in order to calm her) my dd when she was melting down, the better. She really couldn't handle that stimulation. It was best if I was nearby, calm, and quiet. Hands-down the best approach for her was to just sort of robotically say "I'll talk to you when you're calm" and just be nearby. I could not calm her, she just had to move through it. (I also had to have a plan to keep myself calm, it's so stressful and frustrating to listen to prolonged screaming.)

All that said, I think you can definitely work on helping her learn the skills she needs so that meltdowns don't happen so much. It will take time, and a lot of patience, but you can do it. I think it would definitely be worth your time to read The Explosive Child. The great thing about this book, for me, was that it helped me identify what my child needed to learn in order to not be melting down. Really, to handle intense emotion in socially acceptable ways requires a number of skills: for example, the ability to identify those emotions, to communicate your emotions and the problem, to problem-solve, to regulate your emotions. This book also helped me identify triggers, so that we could work in advance on preventing meltdowns by solving problems. So, if transitions are difficult for my child, I can make a plan in advance (with her) in order to prevent those meltdowns that have been happening during transitions. Identifying those triggers and the skills that need to be learned/improved is so important.

A great book for teaching skills to young children is Raising A Thinking Child by Myrna Shure. This one is all about using games to teach your child to communicate, identify emotions, empathize, problem-solve. Some kids pick these skills up easily and naturally, and some kids need a lot more time, help and explicit instruction to learn them.

I found that most of the work we did in order to help dd learn how to better handle her emotions was done when she was calm. The moment of a meltdown is not a good teaching moment, though you will still be responding and teaching in that moment in whatever way is most helpful and effective for your child.

Finally, know that this will get better with both your help and with maturity. 4 is a hard age. Know that your child wants to do better, and she would do better if she could. And she will be able to, it will just take time.

[shelleyd]

beanma and magella- Thank you both so much for your long replies. I'm going to the library today for The Explosive Child and have holds placed on the others you both recomended.

Yesterday was a really intense meltdown. We have had a lot of major changes in our life in these last six months and the meltdowns have definitely increased in this time. I know of course it is related but in the moment of a meltdown all I can think is "why is she screaming like this over NOTHING" because the trigger is always something little. I want to help her and I am just at a loss as to what to do. Hopefully these books will help.

Magella you said that your child had meltdowns when she was younger. When did it stop? Also how did you help yourself to remail calm when she was melting down? I want to be calm, loving and patient during my daughters darkest hour but I am ashamed to admit that I am not any of those things lately when she melts down. I find her anger to be contagious and I get angry at her in response which only fuels her more. It is a bad cycle that I am trying so hard to break. We have so much other stress going right now that I know my patience is shot. So I'd love to hear tips for remaining calm myself and being the mother I want to be in these hard times.

Thank you both again for your thoughtful replies and I welcome more input from others.

[Lohagrace]

I just wanted to reply that we are going through a similar thing. Although my dd is almost 6, we are in the midst of a very difficult time. she does what you describe--the 20 minute to 1 or even 1.5 hour long complete freak out. when she melts down, she hits, bites and scratches me, screams, flails and kicks her legs. strangely, sometimes she even laughs.
i've taken a class and i've gotten coaching from a really helpful woman, who has let me see that what children need is to express strong emotions, work through them, and be complete. that in our culture, what is expected is suppression of strong, especially "negative"/"bad" emotions. What is really needed is a parent who can listen and be available, not punish or promote suppression of emotions via time outs, etc.
the technique is called CALM it stands for
Crying is healthy
Add understanding
Look in the eyes
Move close

Crying or strongly expressing "bad" emotions is a big one for our culture. if you are having the thought "she shouldnt be so upset about something so small" you are disempowering yourself to deal with her calmly. you could create a new context for her meltdowns such as "she has some emotions she needs to process. she is out of control and needs my help." sometimes what the child is melting down about, we can't see. maybe they've stored up several upsets and then there was the broken cookie or whatever that was the straw that broke the camels back.
Add understanding is just to have empathy. "what's it like to be her right now?" "what is she going through that's having her act that way because i know she wants to act loving and kind" when you ask youself that you are really empowered to be with her.
look in the eyes is self-explanatory
move close just means to be available. my daughter does not want hugs when she is raging. in fact, she is trying to hurt me, and many times i'm firmly, but lovingly, restraining her and telling her that i cant let her hurt me or anyone else in the family. all the while i'm empathizing "you're really mad/frustrated. You're out of control and it feels scary. you're furious" i've showed her how to roar like a lion or punch sofa cushions--its ok to release the anger energy so long as its not directed at someone else.

empathy and hearing your child, and having the space for them to be able to really express any emotion around you is a practice and its really hard and you will need someone to hear YOU so that you are empowered to hear her.

[Magella]

Originally Posted by shelleyd

Magella you said that your child had meltdowns when she was younger. When did it stop?

Well, I don't want to freak you out so keep in mind that this is our individual experience. We eventually found out that dd had (well, has) an anxiety disorder that contributed to the meltdowns, in addition to her needing to learn skills. It's not that she "just outgrew them," but that over time as we addressed her skills, addressed her anxiety, and she matured they faded out. She began those meltdowns when she was 3, and by the time she was 6 she wasn't having them as intensely or frequently. By that time I'd been working hard on the Explosive Child method and the skills-teaching. But the meltdowns resumed with a vengeance when she was 7, and that's when we started therapy. All of the hard work we've done has paid off, though, and she does not have meltdowns like that anymore (not since she was 7, really).

Now, I also have a spirited 6 year old who had her share of tantrums (though they were typical in nature, not nearly as intense and long-lasting). She probably had a tantrum once a day for awhile there. She outgrew that by the time she was 5-5.5 years old.

Originally Posted by shelleyd

Also, how did you help yourself to remail calm when she was melting down? I want to be calm, loving and patient during my daughters darkest hour but I am ashamed to admit that I am not any of those things lately when she melts down. I find her anger to be contagious and I get angry at her in response which only fuels her more. It is a bad cycle that I am trying so hard to break. We have so much other stress going right now that I know my patience is shot. So I'd love to hear tips for remaining calm myself and being the mother I want to be in these hard times.

There were many, many days when I wasn't calm, patient or loving during meltdowns. I think it's incredibly hard to be those things during those times. I had to do a couple of things in order to stay calm.

1) I had to let go of all the self-talk. She'd be melting down and I'd notice that I was thinking all sorts of things like "what am I doing wrong?" "why won't she stop?" "what if she never stops doing this?" "I hate this" and so on. All those thoughts just made me more anxious and frustrated and angry. So just being aware of it and letting it go, saying to myself "I'm anxious and angry. Take a breath. It will end" helped keep me calm.

Very often what we're thinking strongly affects how we feel, so thinking about things differently can help. So if I'm thinking "omg, why will she not just stop?!" I'm likely to remain frustrated or become even more frustrated. If instead I think "remember, she can't stop. She doesn't know how to calm down. She would if she could," then I can remain more calm.

2) I would have a mantra to (silently) repeat or something to do. Maybe I would take deep breaths, maybe I'd just keep reminding myself to stay calm, maybe I'd think about something pleasant (not easy in the moment) or look out the window at something pleasant (trees, flowers, etc.), maybe I'd do math in my head. I had some favorite quotes that I memorized (even had them posted around the house at one time) and would (silently) recite and think about. I would remind myself to be Robot-Mommy, to be zen, to be the calm I wanted her to be. Practicing deep-breathing, calming, and/or meditating when she wasn't melting down helped me be better able to calm down when she was melting down.

(Also, I had earplugs. It helped, because when the screaming was less painful to my ears it was easier to stay calm.)

There is one book I found to be extremely helpful in terms of learning to stay calm. It's called Time-Out for Parents: A Guide to Compassionate Parenting by Cheri Huber. It's a fast, easy read and it's all about taking care of ourselves (so that we can take care of our children compassionately). I love this book, and read it many times. We have lived with so much stress, and this book was so helpful.

Also, there's a fairly new book called Liking the Child You Love, which is all about changing how we think about our kids' behavior so that we aren't so angry. I find stuff like this helpful (and I'm a bookworm).

Also, take time to do something relaxing and enjoyable every day-even if you only have two minutes to do it. It helps.

[beanma]

I was going to recommend a mantra of sorts. I think you will find some practical tips in The Explosive Child (and stories of kids who explode more often and more intensely than yours!). If you can adapt some of the tips you find into sort of a mantra for yourself it helps with how you feel and what you're teaching your child. I would start by empathizing, "Wow, you sound really upset about this. When you get out your sads/mads/anger let's talk about how we can solve this problem together." Repeat as needed.

My kids really respond well to problem-solving ala How To Talk So Your Children Can Listen And Listen So Your Children Can Talk. The Explosive Child is based on this same kind of idea, but w/o the writing down part. It can be more of a way of life rather than a special occasion technique. My kids LOOOOOOOVE the writing down part, though.

We write down the problem. (Obviously this is not going to work in the midst of a tantrum/meltdown, but if you can catch it before it becomes full blown this is a very effective technique.) Then brainstorm as many solutions as the two of you can come up with. WRITE DOWN ANYTHING THE CHILD SAYS! Sorry to shout, but that's the most important part, as it really helps the child feel empowered and valued. After you've run out of ideas then you can take turns going back through and crossing out the ones that won't work. You'll end up with something like this:

PROBLEM: DD wants to draw on the wall, but Mama wants to keep the wall clean.

SOLUTIONS:
1. Draw all over the wall!
2. Draw on paper.
3. draw on the ceiling!
4. draw on some cardboard
5. do whatever I want
6. Have a snack
7. blaaaabbbleeeeblooo poopy in the potty
8. paint on your easel
9. draw on the deck
10. draw on the deck with chalk
etc, etc, etc...

You can have more than one solution, too. Maybe you have a snack and then go draw on some cardboard and poopying in the potty is always a good thing!

hth, and I agree with the PPs — take some time for yourself, too, and take care of yourself!

[shelleyd]

Originally Posted by Lohagrace

I just wanted to reply that we are going through a similar thing. Although my dd is almost 6, we are in the midst of a very difficult time.

Lohagrace- I'm sorry that you're experiencing this too. It sure is hard. Thank you for the advice. It is helpful to hear specific tactics to handling these meltdows because just trying to remain calm with no plan as to how to remain calm isn't working.

Originally Posted by Magella

Well, I don't want to freak you out so keep in mind that this is our individual experience. We eventually found out that dd had (well, has) an anxiety disorder that contributed to the meltdowns, in addition to her needing to learn skills. It's not that she "just outgrew them," but that over time as we addressed her skills, addressed her anxiety, and she matured they faded out. She began those meltdowns when she was 3, and by the time she was 6 she wasn't having them as intensely or frequently. By that time I'd been working hard on the Explosive Child method and the skills-teaching. But the meltdowns resumed with a vengeance when she was 7, and that's when we started therapy. All of the hard work we've done has paid off, though, and she does not have meltdowns like that anymore (not since she was 7, really).

Magella- Thank you once again for your thoughtful response. It's interesting that you mentioned your dd has anxiety. My sister has anxiety issues and has since childhood. My daughter frequently says and does things that reminds my entire family of my sister and her anxiety issues and we have wondered if my daugter suffers from anxiety as well. I am not sure where to go from here though. Did you see a child psychologist or pediatrician? I don't even know where to begin. We just moved to a new area and we don't have a doctor yet. And so with all the upheaval and changes in our life I sometimes think I shouldn't be worried and that she is adjusting and dealing in her own four year old way. And other times I think maybe we need some outside help. That is why I posted here. It is helpful to hear that mayb her meltdowns are not quite normal and I'm not overreacting to pursue getting help.

Thank you for the tips for remaining calm. I sure need it

Originally Posted by beanma

I was going to recommend a mantra of sorts. I think you will find some practical tips in The Explosive Child (and stories of kids who explode more often and more intensely than yours!). If you can adapt some of the tips you find into sort of a mantra for yourself it helps with how you feel and what you're teaching your child. I would start by empathizing, "Wow, you sound really upset about this. When you get out your sads/mads/anger let's talk about how we can solve this problem together." Repeat as needed.

Beanma- Thank you again as well. I love How to Talk So Kids Will Listen. I even made flashcards from it to help myself. I find that there are plenty of times that she is frustrated and mad that these techniques help but they aren't much help once she is already melting down. I sure hope The Explosive Child is as helpful. I am trying to take time for myself too. My very generous MIL just bought me a gym membership that offers daily yoga so I've started doing yoga.

[Magella]

Shelley, we started out by talking to our dd's pediatrician (who is her primary care provider). Her physician then referred us to a psychologist. I did it this way to 1) rule out physical issues and 2) because I wanted to start with a recommendation from someone for a psychologist rather then just calling up people from the phone book.

The nice thing about seeing a psychologist for an evaluation is that it can help you sort out what's normal and what's not. It is hard to tell, especially when they're younger. Having an evaluation doesn't mean you have to continue on to counseling, either, if you feel it's not really needed. I remember that it just helped so much to hear "you didn't cause this, but you can be part of the solution."

If you aren't sure, you can read up a bit on signs of childhood anxiety and how to help. www.worrywisekids.org has some information on anxiety and how to help (the home page has some information to distinguish between normal childhood fears/anxieties and red flags for problem anxieties). There are some good books out there, too, that can help you sort out whether or not what you're seeing might be signs of anxiety. Freeing Your Child From Anxiety is one. There's another one that listed signs of anxiety and pointed out that irritability and volatility can be signs of anxiety, and that was a revelation to me (my dd is one who tends to show her anxiety more through irritability, whereas I used to think that anxious kids just talked about being scared or worried)-unfortunately I can't remember the name of that one. Amazon has a lot of books on childhood anxiety. I always research Amazon then see if our library system has the books I want.

[beanma]

My dd1 has tendencies toward anxiety,too. I think Magella's link should be http://www.worrywisekids.org/ but you probably figured that out. I think I checked that book out from the library, too. I've not taken my dd1 to a dr/psych though i do sometimes wonder if I should. She is not anxious all the time, but she sort of has "explosions" of anxiety. Anyway, most of the books about anxiety didn't really fit my dd, but The Explosive Child did. Hope you can get through the 4s and on to smoother sailing with the 5s and up.

[Candlelynn]

I have a three year old. She screams like a raptor. Time outs are NOT an option because she just seems to spin further out of control...I asked her after a tiraid (a long time after) what she needed, she said a kiss and a hug. The next time she started up I did just that and it diffused the situation.
There are so many factors. Attention, we have a new baby, boundary setting, button pushing, lack of outdoor time and/or running. Ther was a good mothering article on the rocking chair not the naughty chair. I don't really know anything. Just trying to say, I'm there too. I just try to pull her out of it before she goes over the edge. deep breathes, etc. But, sometimes I just need a brief momment to myself and a lot of grounding...Calm and consistent...sigh. I asked my mother and gradmother how they put up and/or dealt with this. "I just sat in the bathroom and cried, then little fingers would come up under the door, mommy, mommy." Good luck.
p.s. you could also try demonstrating her behaviour... A good family friend had a throw yourself on the floor drama queen when I was little. My mom said she threw herself on the floor, screamed and pounded until the child stopped and stared, then got up brushed off her knees and walked away. That same woman told me to keep a good sense of humour. Well, I'm half sane still. So just keep laughing and keep your chin up. We're all in the trenches together.

[Candlelynn]

p.s.s I'm really trying to find a different option besides crying...lol

[Magella]

Originally Posted by beanma

I think Magella's link should be http://www.worrywisekids.org/

Ooops. Thanks, beanma. That is what I meant to type.

[Magella]

Originally Posted by Candlelynn

That same woman told me to keep a good sense of humour. Well, I'm half sane still. So just keep laughing and keep your chin up. We're all in the trenches together.

Half sane is good!

I agree that you have to work on keeping a sense of humor. I have been known to wear underwear as a hat to ward off impending doom. Judicious use of words known to provoke laughter can head off trouble. I'm getting better at well-timed jokes, too, to head off fights and tantrums. I've been practicing seeing the silly side of everything-even if I'm the only one who finds it funny or laughs, that's okay because at least I've helped myself relax. Laughter can be such good medicine. Even when being silly is the last thing you feel like doing.

[shelleyd]

Once again thank you all so much for your input. I have a long list of books now that I am going to read. I'll start with checking them out of the library and then buy the ones I feel we need to have. I have also copied and pasted all of your tips for remaining calm into a word document and printed several copies to have around the house as reminders.

I often hear the suggestion to use humor to diffuse a situation before it turns into a meltdown. I'm sure that it works for some kids but not my daughter. She gets very angry if I try to joke with her when she is getting worked up. Maybe I'm just not funny enough It does help me though to stay half sane!

Best of luck to everyone dealing with this.

[Theoretica]

I'm coming in late to the thread but here are my thoughts.

1. It really does sound in the realm of normal. When my son (now 16) was that age he raged for HOURS. He is now dx'd with a host of special needs. Needless to say, when my daughter (now 8.5) would tantrum for an hour I was terrified it was the same things. She is now a happy, healthy, well adjusted kiddo who is completely neurotypical. Sometimes kids are just more emotionally intense than others, and that's ok.

2. Ounce of prevention and whatnot...have you heard of the acronym H.A.L.T? If your child is Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired, they aren't going to be their happy go lucky self and you're headed for tantrum territory. Now sometimes these things can't be avoided, and that's ok too, but knowing that is a huge help in retaining your sanity, at least in my experience!

3. If you can't prevent it (and sometimes life just works out NOT in their favor ) my suggestion would be to lovingly say "It looks like you are really upset. I don't want to bother you while you're working on feeling better, I'm going to go read a book/have a cup of tea/listen to headphones/whatever. When you're feeling better maybe we can read a book/share a cup of cocoa/snuggle and talk/color/whatever together." The key, I've learned (after raising three kiddos through this age and having two more coming into it fast), is to be patient and loving but not at the expense of your own sanity. I don't think there IS a magic button to shut it off, but you can gently nudge them in the direction that helps tone it down a little

Hope that helps mama, you're getting great advice here

[shelleyd]

Thank you for your input Theoretica. I have heard of HALT. I know that my dd does well with a consistent routine. When I stick to that and make sure she is well rested and well fed, she is much less likely to melt down. Of course there are times when she is tired or hungry and a meltdown results. So trying to avoid those triggers certainly prevents many meltdowns.

However, a lot of her meltdows seem to come out of nowhere. This last one for instance started at a kindergarten open house we went to with her. She was really on edge from the moment we got there and finally as we were leaving, she started a meltdown that continued at home for an hour. She was well rested and fed. She wasn't alone and I have no reason to think she was angry. This kind of meltdown is what has me perplexed. She isn't mad because she didn't get her way about something. I don't even know what she wanted so the oft repeated advice to not give into a tantrum is just useless in this situation because she isn't asking for something and not getting it, yk? In this situation I could tell by her behaviour as soon as we got there that she was headed for a meltdown and I tried calming her down but it obviously didn't work. In these situations, I can just tell by the way she is acting leading up to it that it will be a meltdown. She just seems uneasy and on edge about nothing. I'm sure to her it's something but she sure isn't able to articulate what. Maybe the kindergarten open house made her scared to start school? I'm speculating here because that seems logical but you wouldn't know it talking to her because she is excited to start school. I just wish I knew what triggers these seemingly out of nowhere meltdowns so that I could do more to prevent them.

[Theoretica]

Hmm, that's interesting! It sounds like you really have a handle on the 'preventable' outbursts, at least as much as any mom of a young one can

I think you've hit the nail on the head about seeing it build up relating to the kindergarten. It sounds like she has mixed feelings about kindergarten (understandably so) and is excited to be a part of it, but nervous too. What about hitting the library and getting lots of picture books about starting kindergarten? A lot of those deal with these same feelings, excited, nervous, scared, happy, proud, worried etc. and it might help her put words to it and feel more validated that her emotions are recognized.

Also, whatever is triggering it, it seems from what you've said that you are able to see when it's coming. If you think of her meltdown as 10 (on a scale of 1-10) and 'seeing it coming' is a 5, what would be a 3? Maybe you could keep notes or something for a week or so and see if there's anything ahead of that that helps you take notice of her stress level increasing and then you can help her take some calming steps earlier, before it gets out of hand?

I'm just brainstorming here, honestly I think you have a great handle on it (although I realize it's frustrating to be on the receiving end of the tantrums) and you are really going about this the right way. From reading this thread I get the impression you are in tune with her and yet respectful of her emotional separateness from you (ie not taking it personally that she's tantruming). Just wanted to make sure you hear that, it's so hard in the 'thick of it' to remember you really are doing the right things

Keep talking it out, I think you're going to definitely find some ideas that work for your situation!

[savithny]

I had a melter. It started around 3 and went on until after 4. He still did it occasionally at 5-6 but was getting control.

A few things that I discovered in dealing with ours:

1) During the meltdown, it is not about trying to get what they want anymore. They've lost control. This isn't fun, its scary, and they WOULD stop if they could. They are not doing this to manipulate you or get their way.

2) During a meltdown, too much talking is a bad thing. A lot of GD advice is to talk, rationalize, try to talk out the child's feelings. This made my son even more hysterical. I had to pick a simple message and stick with it on repeat. I made no requests. "We need to pick up Daddy before we can get ice cream. We need to pick up Daddy. I know you're mad, but we need to pick up Daddy before we can get ice cream."

3) Talk about it afterwards, if at all. And don't overwhelm with words. Again, while I'm sure that some kids respond well to talking abotu every single detail about every feeling about every event, others don't. It can be overwhelming. Keep it simple, and prepare for repeat events. "We're going to the park today. Last time, when we had to leave, you were upset, weren't you? Remember, we have to leave the park in order to pick up Daddy from work! You're excited to see Daddy, right? Well, we'll have to leave from the park to get him! We'll leave the park, but then we'll go get Dad, and get our dinner!"

4) Too many tactics. At first, I'd try switching tactics if one didn't work. Talk about feelings? Nope. Okay, talk about logical consequences of not leaving park? Nope. Okay, Playful Parenting time! Make a joke! Nope! A meltdown is already too much sensory information, and for my kid, trying different things made things worse, and trying Playful Parenting ideas for jollying him out of the meltdown would make it exponentially worse. He'd scream "YOU"RE LAUGHING AT ME! STOP!" I see your kid feels the same way. I think its not uncommon -- its yet another sign, too, that what works for one kid does not work for them all.

If I could, I'd hold him. When he got older, I coudl say "DO you need a hug? Do you need help calming down?" We did timeouts at home, in the sense that I'd take him to his room or someplace quiet and just sit with him, repeating my one-sentence message, until he was calm enough to take deep breaths with me and sit on my lap and rock for awhile. We would not analyze the situation yet - he wasn't ready. He just needed affirmation that he was okay, that he'd survived the meltdown himself, and that he and I were still cool - that I wasn't mad about him losing control. He was clearly even somewhat embarassed by it - remember - meltdowns are NOT FUN. They don't feel good and kids don't like to be in the middle of them. They're not doing it to disrespect you or the rest of the family.

With time, you could see some of those techniques kicking in on his own. He'd start to scream, and then you'd see him kind of stop, and shake himself a bit, and take a deep breath, and the moment woudl pass, meltdown-free.

[dbsam]

Unfortunately, I have nothing helpful to add but understand your situation completely. I just logged on to MDC to look for help after walking away from one of my daughter’s meltdowns. Like your daughter, my daughter’s hysteria – not usually violent but more of a complete emotional breakdown…sobbing, throwing herself on the ground, thrashing, etc can last over an hour. My daughter is 5.5yo and her ‘meltdowns’ have changed in nature over the years but not in intensity. Her behavior is not normally a result of not getting her way…we often cannot determine the reason and she refuses to talk about it after the fact. Trying to talk to her after the fact makes her very upset and can trigger another type of meltdown. Like your daughter, my attempt at humor irritates her even more. She doesn’t want me to talk to her, touch her, etc. If I show any frustration or anger she gets more upset and sometimes, if she is a little calmer, says I do not love her or she is not good. Her neurologist (she has epilepsy) requested a neuro psych evaluation and an evaluation at a mood disorder clinic - for multiple issues; not just the meltdowns. The neuro believes my daughter is depressed and has OCD. I am wondering if it is a side-effect of her anti-seizure meds but the neuro says that is not possible and that the meds are probably lessoning her meltdowns. I am hoping it is just normal for some children and she will grow out of it… but as the years pass I doubt it is ‘normal’. I realize I’ve spent most of her years ‘working around’ her preventable meltdowns but as she gets older that is not always possible. (like keeping our life calm, non-hectic, unscheduled) But more worrisome to me are the situations that come out of the blue, like this morning. She has the meltdowns at school too – sometimes we know the reason - e.g. A boy saw her struggling to clip her bag and he stepped in to help. She melted down because she did not ask for or want his help. They’ve also found her hysterical on the bathroom floor because she couldn’t remember which handle was hot and which was cold on the sink.

I am going to get the book pp’s have mentioned.

Thank you for this thread.