I'm not immune to rubella

[Smokering]

I found out I was pregnant with DD when I was exposed to chicken pox and told to test "just in case". I was immune, which wasn't surprising, having had CP as a kidling. What was surprising is that I wasn't immune to rubella, despite having had it and having been vaxed for it. My doctor naturally told me to get a shot once DD was born.

I didn't give it much thought at the time. DD's now nearly two. She still breastfeeds (not sure if that's relevant - do vaxes pass immunity or toxins through breastmilk?). I'm not thinking of TTC any time particularly soon, which is good as one is not supposed to get pregnant for 3 months after the vax.

DD is unvaxed: I was vaxed until the age of 12, when my mother came to believe my sister suffered from a vaccine reaction which contributed to her special needs. I'm not absolutely, dogmatically anti-vax, but I can't say I like them. Still... what would you do? Can you give me any compelling evidence one way or another about the likely effects/efficacy/necessity of a rubella vax on an unvaxed-for-13-years breastfeeding planning-to-have-more-kids woman?

[JBaxter]

My sister had 2 MMR's as a child/teen. One after having her first son. AGAIN before starting nursing school and still tested negative when pregnant with her 2nd. She refuses any further shots.

[BunnySlippers]

I had lots of rubella shots throughout my childhood (bleh) and no immunity.
Once i got to choose I said 'no thanks' and it hasnt worried me since. DD is not vaxx'd and has survived (and thrived).

[Chloe'sMama]

i had all my shots as a kid and when TTC dd, i was tested and had 0 immunity. I got the shot (before I became anti vaccine). They tested me again when DD was born, again 0 immunity. I refused another one. Obviously, my body does not accept the vaccine.

I am pregnant again and will not get one now or after this baby. Just my thoughts though.

[somegirl99]

I'm in the same boat, had the vaccine both as a young child and as a teen, got tested a few weeks ago (part of my OB's standard pregnancy panel) and found that I have no immunity.

[FernG]

I had the MMR as a toddler. MMR booster at age 6. My vax records were lost and I needed proof of 2 MMRs to go to college (no excemptions accepted). I got to MMRs at age 18. A few years later, prenatal blood testing showed that I am not immune to R. I won't get another MMR - ever.

1) What are the chances that after all of these decades I will suddenly get rubella during the first trimester of a pregnancy?
2) After having 4 MMRs already, why would anyone think that I would be likely to develope antibodies after a 5th MMR?

[CorasMama]

the dangers of rubella during pregnancy are scary enough to me that I'm going to get vaccinated after this baby is born, even though we're not sure we're going to have any more. I tested as borderline for whether I had the immunity, and I really don't want to take any chances. (Not that it's applicable, but we do selective/delayed vaxing.)

[Emmeline II]

tmk, the separate MMR is no longer being manufactured, so you would likely be getting the MMR.

Chronic arthritis is a tabled vaccine injury for the MMR and I've come across a number of moms that have developed it from a postpartum MMR.

I would ensure that I was getting enough vitamin A, instead of the shot.

[Mirzam]

I am not in your position as I am immune to Rubella (had both disease and vaccine), however, if I were in your position, I would certainly not get the vaccination. There is a possibility that some cases of autism are actually subclinical congenital attenuated Rubella Syndrome, so I definitely wouldn't risk having the vaccine if despite having had the disease and the vaccination if I have failed to produce an antibody reaction to the virus.

Here is a link to a paper which proposed such a hypothisis:

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/autismrubella.pdf

The paper explains what appears to be a link between the rubella vaccine's failure to produce seroconversion and sufficient immunity in some women and their having a child or multiple children with autism spectrum disorders.

The main idea in this paper is that autism is induced during pregnancy when a persistent maternal infection with attenuated, vaccine strain rubella reactivates and infects the embryo or fetus developing in utero. After vaccination, the virus persists in vivo producing no clinical symptoms of rubella in affected females. These women do not know they are serving as hosts to the virus.

[listipton]

Originally Posted by FernG

1) What are the chances that after all of these decades I will suddenly get rubella during the first trimester of a pregnancy?
2) After having 4 MMRs already, why would anyone think that I would be likely to develope antibodies after a 5th MMR?

This. If you've already been fully vaxed and still aren't immune, another shot probably won't do it.

[InchByInch]

Originally Posted by Mirzam

I am not in your position as I am immune to Rubella (had both disease and vaccine), however, if I were in your position, I would certainly not get the vaccination. There is a possibility that some cases of autism are actually subclinical congenital attenuated Rubella Syndrome, so I definitely wouldn't risk having the vaccine if despite having had the disease and the vaccination if I have failed to produce an antibody reaction to the virus.

Here is a link to a paper which proposed such a hypothisis:

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/autismrubella.pdf

The paper explains what appears to be a link between the rubella vaccine's failure to produce seroconversion and sufficient immunity in some women and their having a child or multiple children with autism spectrum disorders.

This is exactly what I was going to say, but Mirzam said it better! Dr. Yazbak's study (mentioned in the link) is the reason I refused a rubella shot after my last pregnancy. My (verrry mainstream) ob/gyn at the time was not happy with my decision, but when I presented her with Yazbak's study, she couldn't say anything to refute it (except that it focused on just a "small" group of women-- I say small is relative when it comes to something so serious as autism).

Also want to add, like other pps, I was vaccinated with the MMR shot as a child.

[Sileree]

Interesting that so many lose detectable titers to rubella after such a short period.

[Smokering]

Interesting. I should probably mention that autism and Asperger's do run heavily in my family (and DH's). I'm slightly Aspergic myself (subclinical, but weird).

I'm intrigued by the fact some of you failed to gain immunity like me despite having had the disease and vaxes. Does rubella immunity "stick" less than immunity for other commonly-vaxed diseases? Does anyone have any hard data on the likelihood of another vax not sticking? Or on the vitamin A thing?

I do plan to plan the next baby (DD just sorta happened), so in theory I could stock up on natural vitamin A before conceiving (not synthetic, I know that's been linked to birth defects) and be extra careful where I went. But of course there's always the possibility of an accidental pregnancy. And I really don't like the "don't TTC for three months after the shot" thing - it seems scary. Is there a contraindiction on TTC for three months after actually having rubella?

[miriam]

what would you do?

I would read what the drug company says about the vaccine.

I would read what the CDC says about the vaccine.

I would continue to research and make the decision for myself that I can will with for the rest of my life.

[Fyrestorm]

I also had the MMR (3 times) and still got mumps and rubella. I also tested not immune at the time of my first marriage (my state was still testing for it for a marriage license at that time) and again with my first pregnancy. I have not been re-injected and refused testing with my pregnancy with my DD. I would assume I still have no immunity. Titers are not always indicative of immunity though.

http://vaclib.org/basic/titers-immunity.htm

[tanyalynn]

I'm sorry I don't have links, first off, I've just read here and there trying to make sense of things like rubella. Since not all babies born to mothers who contract rubella, even early in the pregnancy, have related congenital issues, I've wondered what's makes them different.

My impression, for many of the illnesses that can cause birth defects in babies when mom is infected early in the pregnancy, is that the illness depletes various nutrients, and then that acute shortage, during the critical time window when organs are forming, means that that work cannot happen properly in baby. I don't think it's just a matter of a good diet though, some people are more vulnerable than others--like the folate issue--most Americans eat pathetic amounts of folate, and half of pregnancies in the US are unplanned, but even before folic acid was added to the food supply, most babies did not have neural tube defects.

I think vitamin A is a key one involved, but the B vitamins are involved in a lot of chemical processes, vitamin D at good levels before pregnancy is always a good move, and it works well with A, plus any minerals that may be helpful (magnesium, zinc).

But with some planning, extra nutritional support during illnesses, overall good nutrition, I think skipping rubella vaccination is a reasonable choice.

[LaffNowCryLater]

(we're select/delayers)

When I was pregnant with my 4th I found I out I too was no longer immune to rubella. I spent the rest of the pregnancy making my decision, and I decided to get the shot after I delivered in the hospital b/c I delay the MMR and have 2 little ones in the home who are not immune. If they were vaxed I would probably not have gotten it but I figured I would rather get the shot than them. I also work with a lot of children who aren't always vaxed (and not b/c their parent's have researched it and decided not to).

I hadn't had a vax since a child and I was a bit paranoid but I did fine with it.

This experience has strengthened my views on delaying vaxes considering I am only 25! If my mom had delayed my vax by a few years I would probably have been immune long enough to finish having kids.

ETA: I got a dose of the MMR, not the Rubella shot alone.

[superlori]

I'm just online briefly, so I've only skimmed the other responses, but perhaps you could try getting tested again before TTC to see if it's changed? When pregnant with my first, I tested negative and was told to get vaccinated after the birth. I chose not to and never thought of it again until pregnant with my second. The test that time showed I was immune. The midwife said I probably came into contact with the disease without even knowing it at some point between the tests and that it was quite common.

I was fully vaxed until I left university... so much for life long immunity, eh?

(FTR, I would never get the rubella shot, due to its association with arthritis in women.)