What do you think is a time out?

[Momily]

I often see posts here (there's one on the thread about SO disciplining the child) where people say that they don't do time out, and then describe what they do instead, which is what we call time out in my house and at the school where I work.

For example, in the one post, someone says that they don't punish (and she uses time out as an example of punishment) for whining, they simply walk their child to their room and tell them to stay there until they're finished whining. I think that might be a fine strategy (I am not opposed to time out), but I also think it's a pretty text book time out.

Anyway, I'm curious if those of us who say "I don't do time out" and those of us who do (I'm in the latter camp, although my 10 year old has probably been in time out a dozen times in his life, it's not at the top of my list of tools) are actually meaning two different things by the word time out.

[waiting2bemommy]

I'm the one that posted that and I guess the difference is how it's carried out.

Like if ds were to hit me, I would tell him "you do NOT hit mommy. Go sit in timeout." then the purpose is to "punish" him by removing him from his toys etc and make him sit down. I don't expect him to write me an essay or something so at 2 years old I don't even bother with "think about what you did" because, I mean, he;s 2. But it's an unpleasant consequence for doing something unacceptable. Time out is in a chair or in a a specific corner, and he may not move from that spot, paly with toys, watch TV etc until the timer goes off. Then we talk about what happened and he is encouraged to apologize to whoever his actions affected.


Walking him to his room is not a timeout in the sense of punishment because hes doing something "bad." He's just taking a break in a safe place, which happens to be his room. I don't lock him in there or anything, and he can play, look at books, and come out whenever HE feels ready to be social again. There's no unpleasantness associated with it. When I put him in timeout, I'm usually mad, and I usually sound mad.....When I walk himt o his room, I'm just helping him find a safe place to express himself where he won't disturb us.

At least, that is the theory behind it.

[Momily]

OK, I see the difference. To be clear in my family, and in the school I work in (and pretty much every school I've worked in) time out covers both of what you described. It just literally means taking a break from an activity where you're having difficulty. If I'm in school and a child is bothering their neighbor on the carpet and I ask them to move to another chair where there's no one next to them (but still keep listening and watching) then that's "time out". Sometimes it's accompanied by a verbal reprimand, but the verbal reprimand isn't part of the actual time out, it's just that the child is getting two consequences (yelled at and time out).

It is punitive, in the strict behavioral sense (that is, a punishment is something that happens after a behavior that makes the behavior less likely to occur in the future -- if I go outside to get the newspaper in just my socks, and my socks get wet, and I decide to leave flip flops by the front door, the water was a punisher), but not in the sense that people usually mean (e.g. something people do because they are angry at the other person, or to shame someone).

[One_Girl]

I think of time-out as a situation where the child is forced to sit alone for a set amount of time and then is allowed to get up whether they are back in control of their body or not. I don't consider telling a child to sit down until they feel that they have regained control of their body and actions as time-out, if the child regains control without even sitting down then that should also be a choice. I think that it is fine to give the child an outlet for calming down and having space away from whatever is triggering their loss of control until they feel like they are ready to cope. I also think that it is okay to impose that on your child if they are truly out of control (hitting, kicking, yelling and throwing things), but it can be abused and start to feel punitive if is used to make your child bend themselves to your will everytime they annoy you or refuse to listen to you. I think that the child recognizing when they are in and out of control of their actions is important and this is one way that I used to help my dd recognize her bodies signals. As she has gotten older she has started telling me when she wants space to calm down.

[waiting2bemommy]

Originally Posted by Momily

OK, I see the difference. To be clear in my family, and in the school I work in (and pretty much every school I've worked in) time out covers both of what you described. It just literally means taking a break from an activity where you're having difficulty. If I'm in school and a child is bothering their neighbor on the carpet and I ask them to move to another chair where there's no one next to them (but still keep listening and watching) then that's "time out". Sometimes it's accompanied by a verbal reprimand, but the verbal reprimand isn't part of the actual time out, it's just that the child is getting two consequences (yelled at and time out).

It is punitive, in the strict behavioral sense (that is, a punishment is something that happens after a behavior that makes the behavior less likely to occur in the future -- if I go outside to get the newspaper in just my socks, and my socks get wet, and I decide to leave flip flops by the front door, the water was a punisher), but not in the sense that people usually mean (e.g. something people do because they are angry at the other person, or to shame someone).

I guess my thing is that in the second example (me walking him to his room) my goal isn't really to make him stop whining, but just to teach him to do it where we don't have to listen to it. That's actually the conversation SO and I ahd when we came to that compromise. To stop trying to control teh behavior, which is extremely irritating, but age-appropriate, and instead find a way to deal with it. So I'm not really trying to get him to think "I don't want to go in my room so I better stop whining." Instead I'd rather he think "Oh, I'm whining/yelling, and that annoys people so I should go be by myself til I feel better." And then take himself to his room. I know that's probably an extremely lofty expectation and I don't actually expect it to play out like that at 2 years old, but does that sort of clarify what i mean about the *intent*?


Since I use timeout punitively, I don't refer to that situation above as a time out to him (even though I get what you mean as it basically being the same thing) because I don't want it to have a negative association.

IDK, I probably am overthinking the whole thing lol.

[LynnS6]

For me a 'textbook timeout' would be:
1. Separating the child from you
2. Enforcing an amount of time that the child has to be there - and returning them if they get out too soon (ala Super Nanny)
3. Having the timeout be sitting/standing and not playing

I do "timeouts" like the previous poster - send the kid to his/her room until they are safe to be around (for hitting) or over their whining/screaming. While they don't fit the textbook definition I just gave, they sure feel like timeouts to me. My kids don't usually play, they scream (well, OK, she screams; ds hasn't had a timeout in years). And at times we have to enforce her staying in her room because she'll come stand next to us and scream. Because of that, I refer them as 'time outs'.

My vision for them is as a 'time in' where the child has a chance to recenter themselves and we get a break from the bad dynamics. Ds, at age 8, definitely does that. He'll stomp up to his room, occupy himself with something and then come back a bit later in a better mood and ready to reconnect. Dd, at age 5, appears to want the whole family to share her frustration/anger and so will be in her room screaming. I'm hoping that someday the drama/fireworks will calm down. But until they do, it sure feels like time out to me.

[mamazee]

I'd call them both time outs too.

[Momily]

This conversation is really helpful to me, because I often read people saying very strongly that they'd never use time out or never let their child go to a school that uses time out. Given that to me and my child and students, time out is a reset button, not a traumatic event (there is no screaming, or holding the door shut), I've always wondered about the strength of feelings people have against it.

When I gave time outs at home (DS is 10 and we haven't done one in years) I generally either picked him up (not if he was actively resisting, I wouldn't do that) or took his hand and led him to the sofa, sat him down and said some version of please don't do X because of Y (e.g. "You're running really fast and I'm worried you'll hit the open oven door, I need you to stop, please sit here and think of something quiet to do", or "I don't like it when you yell at me, it hurts my ears, come find me if you want to talk to me calmly and we'll figure out a solution together", and then I walked away (the rooms of our house were all interconnected so I was always in earshot, usually in sight). Sometimes he'd be off the couch in 3 seconds to talk to me calmly, or to head over to the legos, sometimes he'd sit there for a few moments, and sometimes he'd pick up a book off the couch and read for a while.

When I give time outs at school, they are usually in between the two things people describe. The seat is usually assigned (it might be go back to your own seat if we're on the carpet, or it might be a chair that I point out that's in clear view of the group). The message is generally "this is not the time or place for that", but it also might be "that's not something we do". There isn't a time limit -- generally kids raise their hand when they want to come back, sometimes that's the second their butt touches the chair which is fine as long as they're not still doing whatever got them sent there, although sometimes I might say I'd like to talk to you before you come back, please wait a moment. I'm not angry, or scolding, or raising my voice. Some kids do better with an activity in time out (usually something like bristle blocks or coloring) so they can organize around the activity, sometimes kids take their work with them, and sometimes they can still listen to instruction.

To me the "out" an "in" in time out/time in distinction is whether you are out of or in an interaction with me. So, "I can't have you running around the kitchen when the oven door is open, please go sit down in the dining room and look at a book until the cookies are out of the oven" -- that's time out. On the other hand, "Teasing the dog isn't OK, please come away from the dog and help me mop the floor", is a "Time In".

[crunchy_mommy]

I'm glad you posted this, this is interesting. I was also really confused when people said they don't use time-outs... I consider a time-out to be just time to regroup. I give myself time-outs when I feel I need them!! I think you are right that we have 2 different definitions for it.

[*EarthMama*]

[phathui5]

they simply walk their child to their room and tell them to stay there until they're finished whining. I think that might be a fine strategy (I am not opposed to time out), but I also think it's a pretty text book time out.

I think that time-out (and I do use it) has a set time period. So if I saw someone doing what you describe, I wouldn't call it time-out.

[sgmom]

What I do is called a "time IN".

Google "time-in vs time-out", for a pretty clear understanding. The first link that came up when I did it just now, explains it quite nicely.

What Distinguishes Time-In from Time-Out?

Time-In

The adult invites the child to the time-in place. (However, a child who has lost control and presents a danger to others may need help getting to the time-in place.)
Time-in is time together. It promotes a cooperative partnership between adult and child, during which communication remains open.
Time-in focuses on regaining peace between all concerned, rather than on right or wrong. It assumes that the undesired behavior feels unpleasant enough in itself without adding to that pain.
Time-in is time to regain connection, balance, centeredness, and mutual well-being.
Time-in shows the adult's willingness to help the child. It shows that the adult's ultimate love and care of the child are unconditional and unphased by any undesired behavior.
Time-in is about feeling good. Children are invited to time-in as a positive reinforcement of the adult and child's caring relationship.

Time-Out

The parent forces the child to the time-out place.
Time-out is time apart. The child is isolated. The adult withdraws attention from the child.
Time-out is punitive. There is a shame element.
Time-out focuses on right and wrong.
Time-out withholds attention (and love, as perceived by the child). It shows that the adult's love and care of the child is conditional.
Time-out is about feeling bad. Children are put in time-out as a negative reinforcement of undesired behavior.

I'm actually really glad that you started this thread. I see a LOT of this here, and have been rather bothered by the level of punishment that's described (and worse yet, justified) as gentle discipline. I see nothing gentle whatsoever about certain punishments like "time outs". ESPECIALLY when used with toddlers who are being punished for behaviors they do not yet understand.

As one mama said in another thread (I'm paraphrasing, because I can't find the thread, but I'll quote it if I can find it), "saying you don't do it, doesn't make it gentle, it's only a nicer way of making it sound".

[sgmom]

PS. I do recognize that some parents who talk about removing their child from the situation, actually do time-in, even though they call it time-out. I have always used time-ins, but I had no idea that there was even a name for what I did until a couple of years ago. I would always ask if they needed a time out, then take them somewhere where we can sit together and talk or where I can help them to calm down. What I NEVER did was punish, shame, scold, react in anger, or leave them alone to "think about what they did".

Sadly though, this isn't always the case (as I recently learned in another thread).

[sgmom]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

For me a 'textbook timeout' would be:
1. Separating the child from you
2. Enforcing an amount of time that the child has to be there - and returning them if they get out too soon (ala Super Nanny)
3. Having the timeout be sitting/standing and not playing

Only because you mentioned Super Nanny (I hope it's okay to post this link), I found this a rather interesting read (good thing I was never a fan of her techniques, or those nanny shows).

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/supernanny.htm

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by sgmom

Only because you mentioned Super Nanny (I hope it's okay to post this link), I found this a rather interesting read (good thing I was never a fan of her techniques, or those nanny shows).

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/supernanny.htm

Thanks for that link! I watch Supernanny (only because we don't have cable & there's nothing else on sometimes). That show makes me so sad. I suppose the good thing that comes out of it is that it prompts DH & I to discuss our parenting philosophies. I used to think Supernanny had it all figured out (back when the show first came out) but the more episodes I watched the more I realized that lady was totally on the wrong track. I feel so bad for the kids in those shows! (And the parents too!)