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Phonics question: words that end in "s"

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I'm just learning explicit phonics rules myself, so I was unable to answer this question from my daughter. I was hoping one of you might have an answer for me.

Under what circumstances is an "s" at the end of a word voiced (pronounced "z")? And under what circumstances is it unvoiced (pronounced "s")?

We have the Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading, but I don't have it memorized, and I was unable to find information about this quickly. I did find the lesson where it explained that is, his, as, and has all end in the "z" sound.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks so much!
post #2 of 10
It's pronounced whichever way is easier to say. For intance, when you add an "s" to a word that ends in "t" it's easy to make it sound like "s" and hard to make it come out like "z." When you add an "s" to a word that ends in "g" it's hard to pronounce it like "s" and easy to pronounce it like "z." So the "s" in "eggs" has a "z" sound and the "s" in "cats" doesn't. (The only words I can think of where the "s" sounds like "s" are words that end in "k," "p," or "t.")

I guess the simplest rule is just that you should always pronounce it "z." You can't really go wrong with that, because your "z" will automatically come out more like "s" in the words where it needs to. Try it with "cats" or "hops." (And even if it comes out like "z," the word will still sound normal.)
post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Thanks! that helps with plurals, but what about regular words? I know some words that end in the 's' sound end in a double s, but the example we were looking at was the word bus, so that didn't help.

Any further thoughts?
post #4 of 10
Oh, sorry, I didn't read carefully enough. Somehow I got the idea you were just asking about plurals. For other words, after giving it some quick thought, I guess I'd say the default rule (for words that aren't plurals) is to pronounce it as "s," and that words where it's pronounced as "z" are just exceptions that have to be memorized. But I might want to think about that some more and see if I can come up with some rule to explain the exceptions.
post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post
Oh, sorry, I didn't read carefully enough. Somehow I got the idea you were just asking about plurals. For other words, after giving it some quick thought, I guess I'd say the default rule (for words that aren't plurals) is to pronounce it as "s," and that words where it's pronounced as "z" are just exceptions that have to be memorized. But I might want to think about that some more and see if I can come up with some rule to explain the exceptions.
I was thinking maybe it was the opposite. I can think of more words in which the sound is 'z' rather than 's'. If they want an 's' sound, they make a double s. The only exceptions that I can come up with are those with the vowel prior to the s being a u. But, I am kinda limiting myself to short words for examples.

Amy
post #6 of 10
I've been thinking about it more, and the only ones I can think of that end in a "z" sound except for "as" are verbs or possessives: is, has, does, goes, his, hers. I thought of a bunch of others that end in a "s" sound: gas, us, bus, this, Christmas, alias, chrysalis, bias, aegis, Ellis, Harris, Sis.

So I'm thinking maybe I see a rule here. It seems like when you add an s to a verb to make it third person present tense - like "runs" or "likes" or "hits" or "buys" - or to a noun or pronoun to make it possessive - like "Peter's" or "Sue's" or "theirs" or "its" - it works the same way as when you add an s to make a word plural. It sounds like "z" unless it would be too hard to pronounce that way. "Is" and "has" and "his" are not straightforward examples of adding an s to the end of another word, but the s in them is pronounced as if they were.

So it seems like the rule could be: Use "z" as the default pronunciation when the word has had an s added to it to make a plural, possessive, or present tense verb. (Or when the word is an irregular verb or possessive pronoun.) Otherwise, when the s is always part of the word and not something that can be added or taken away, the default pronunciation is "s."

Maybe a simpler way to say that is: Pronounce it like "s" if it's a singular noun; otherwise, pronounce it like "z."

ETA: And then there are adjectives that end in s, like "enormous" or "suspicious." The s is always part of the word, not something that can be added or taken away, and it's pronounced like "s."
post #7 of 10
There are actually more pairs of sounds where this is an issue. There are two sounds for "th," for example. The th in "thin" is pronounced differently than the th in "they." We also pronounce the ending "ed" differently in different words. Sometimes it's with a /d/ sound ("buzzed") and sometimes it's a /t/ ("jumped").

I remember in an introduction to linguistics class we did exercises where we figured out guidelines for when we use which sound. It ends up depending on what sounds come before/after the one in question. So you could probably figure out which sounds lead to the /s/ vs. the /z/. Of course, having to memorize which sounds go with which would be daunting, but luckily there also tended to be ways to group them. The main one I remember is whether the before/after sound was voiced or unvoiced.

Voiced sounds are those that vibrate the vocal cords. Unvoiced ones don't. (Bet you had figured that one out already. ) Put your hand on your throat and say /b/, then /p/. You can feel a vibration for /b/ that isn't there when you say /p/. And if you get your lips/tongue in position to say /b/, you'll find that you can instead say /p/ without changing anything, because the only difference in production of those two sounds is in the vocal cord vibration or lack thereof. Other voiced/unvoiced pairs are /s/ and /z/, /d/ and /t/, /f/ and /v/, and those two sounds for "th" that I mentioned above.

So, if we look at words that end with s and have one of these sounds before the s, we see patterns:

cats/cads
caps/cabs
cafs/calves

If you read the first word on each line, you notice the /s/ pronunciation. If you read the second words, you have the /z/. What's really interesting, at least to me , is that "cafs" is not a word, but most fluent English readers will pronounce it with the /s/. Even though we don't normally think about this voiced/unvoiced rule, we still apply it. I also think it's interesting that if you try to force yourself to put the wrong "s" pronunciation on each word, that word starts to sound more like its pair. So if you try to pronounce "cabs" with the s sounding like /s/, the b starts sounding more like a /p/.

For words that end with s and have vowels before them, like your "bus" example, I think it might vary by vowel sound, but I've totally forgotten how to group vowels (other than just by short/long, which might also be interesting to look at, but can't entirely explain things, since "has" and "bus" both have short vowels but different pronunciations of the s).

Okay, now that I've totally given away how much I enjoyed that one linguistics class that I took (and I really wish I had taken it earlier than senior year, because I probably would have minored in it if I had known how interesting I'd find it -- hard to believe it was 16 years ago!), I'm now going to say that unless your dd is really interested in all this, I would consider not bothering with all this very much. I think it's going to be much more helpful to suggest that she try the word with each sound and ask herself, "Is this a word? Does that word make sense in this sentence?" In some situations, she'll be able to rule it out with the first question ("has", for instance, only makes a word with the /z/ sound, not with the /s/). With others, the second question will clear it up ("bus" does make words with both sounds, but if the sentence is "He got on the ___ to go to school," then she can rule out the one that sounds like "buzz").

I don't remember being taught all these rules in elementary school and ways of figuring out which sounds to use. I don't think any of us were taught them in reading lessons as kids. But somehow we pick them up and use them without thinking about it. If a group of fluent readers (who all speak the same language) are given a list of nonsense words, they'll generally sound them out to sound the same (with some variations, especially in English, because there's always an exception in English ).

Hope something in here was helpful, or at least that I've amused you with how geeky I am.
post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TortelliniMama View Post
I'm now going to say that unless your dd is really interested in all this, I would consider not bothering with all this very much. I think it's going to be much more helpful to suggest that she try the word with each sound and ask herself, "Is this a word? Does that word make sense in this sentence?" In some situations, she'll be able to rule it out with the first question ("has", for instance, only makes a word with the /z/ sound, not with the /s/). With others, the second question will clear it up ("bus" does make words with both sounds, but if the sentence is "He got on the ___ to go to school," then she can rule out the one that sounds like "buzz").

I don't remember being taught all these rules in elementary school and ways of figuring out which sounds to use. I don't think any of us were taught them in reading lessons as kids. But somehow we pick them up and use them without thinking about it. If a group of fluent readers (who all speak the same language) are given a list of nonsense words, they'll generally sound them out to sound the same (with some variations, especially in English, because there's always an exception in English ).
I actually minored in linguistics in college, and went on to do some graduate work in the field before I decided the academic life wasn't for me. So I don't think there's anything strange about your fondness for the linguistics class you took!

I have not, as of yet, been able to convince my daughter to simply try both options and consider whether the resulting words make sense in context. If that's the solution to this problem, then I will keep suggesting it to her, and I'm sure she will eventually decide it's not cheating. She really wants it all to make sense, hence my original question. Since I'm not particularly familiar with the phonics rules, I figured there might be some rule that could reasonably be applied.

I know exactly what you mean about people internalizing phonics rules and patterns of pronunciation without having any conscious knowledge of what they are. That's certainly how my own reading works!
post #9 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodil View Post
Maybe a simpler way to say that is: Pronounce it like "s" if it's a singular noun; otherwise, pronounce it like "z."

ETA: And then there are adjectives that end in s, like "enormous" or "suspicious." The s is always part of the word, not something that can be added or taken away, and it's pronounced like "s."
Thanks for giving this so much thought! I really appreciate it.
post #10 of 10
TortelliniMama you rock! That gave me a whole new way to look at words. My dd has been in speech in the past and while I got used to looking in the mirror to see how the mouth was formed, I never knew about the vibration thing. So cool! Now I know that I am not crazy when I couldn't see a difference in the mirror between certain sounds, nor could I feel a difference in tongue placement, although now, it does seem that the tongue may be pressing downward to create that vibration.

Amy
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