Ways to respond to this?

[deesmomma]

MY SISTER. Lol nothing good ever comes from starting a sentence that way. It really doesn't matter that she said it anyway, because I've gotten it from other people too. It falls under the "what about socialization" column regarding homeschooling via others. It does matter a little bit that it was my sister that said it though, because she is against homeschooling, but's she's *really* against ME homeschooling. She thinks b/c I don't work *I'm* not exposed to socialization enough and so even if she was okay with homeschooling, she still thinks basically that they will be "effed up" because I wouldn't know how to teach them normal social skills. (ps she's a psych major and a social worker)

Now, I won't lie. I'm not a people person. I'm a complete introvert and have a ton of social anxiety. I am not involved with the homeschool group in our area - and there is only one - because I was on the yahoo list for a while and it was frequently spammed with conservative Obama bashing fwd's and a slew of religious stuff. I could tell I would not fit in with them, not being religious or a conservative. I live in the south (florida panhandle), fyi. I also don't have many friends, none who have children, so we don't have many playdates either. My 2 kids go to grandmas every weekend, almost for the whole weekend, where they play with cousins, neighbors, and go to sunday school with grandma. We also go to the park frequently where they run into normal park situation that they have to solve.

To the actual point! My sister is of the opinion that being bullied and picked on at school is what prepares children for real life. And I...I just don't know how to respond to this. I tried saying, "There are ways to teach your child to deal with bullies besides just putting them in the middle of it. That's like throwing a 2 year old off a pier to teach it to swim." And her response was, "Well your method is like teaching them to swim without any water."

There's just no getting through to her, I know that. But she always makes me doubt myself, or at least wonder. I just know, in the deepest depths of my heart, that subjecting my children to bullying, being picked on, peer pressure, and worse, so much worse, is not something that I want to do. Call that being over-protective, call it what you will. But I just can't see what's wrong with not wanting your child to have to go through that EVERY DAY.

Another thing I wanted to share with you ladies that she said was along the lines of homeschool kids not being able to "deal." She said, "I'd like to see the percentage of hs kids with anxiety problems/depression issues compared to school kids. 'Cause I know I'd be depressed if I had to stay at home all day." Explaining to her that homeschool childre "don't stay home every day" was moot by then.

I guess ultimately what I'd like advice with is, how do you teach your children to "deal with the real world?" without subjecting them to bullies/being picked on? Especially if you're around mostly homeschool children which (in my experience only) are much well behaved and less likely TO bully or pick on your kids? Will they be weinies when they go to college? Will they cry when their boss yells at them? Inquiring minds need to know and all that.

Thank you for your time.

[One_Girl]

I think you should keep things as they are if your kids are happy and don't seem to need to get out and around other kids more. I have my dd play at the Y and participate in several different activities where she interacts with kids. We also have playdates and go to parks. I don't think that being bullied and teased is important to growing up and being used to the adult world. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I have never been bullied or teased mercilessly as an adult, the fact that I was bullied as a child has not helped me as an adult. I think it is important for kids to make friends and learn to interact positively in many different situations with many different people, but that can be done regardless of where your child gets their education. It sounds like your kids do get that opportunity with their extended family. I have found with my brother that the best thing to do when we don't agree and I don't want to have a pointless argument is to listen and not tell him I disagree. I just continue to do what I am going to do and believe what I am going to believe.

I also have to say don't think that homeschooled kids are any better than kids who go to school though. My dd has had two really scary bullying incedents with much older and bigger kids who were homeschooled. She also had some minor teasing when she was in public school. I don't think kids are better or worse because of being homeschooled, they tend to be better behaved if their mom is right there ready to stop them from bullying.

[RiverSky]

Lillian J frequently posts a link to a recent and detailed study on homeschoolers, perhaps you could forward it, along with a couple of book suggestions, to your sister and say, "Dudette, don't talk to me about homeschooling AT ALL until you can read all of these and discuss them with me, because you just don't know what you are talking about."

As far as assuming that everyone on your homeschool list agreed with the Obama-bashers, even though you live in the Florida panhandle, was well, likely wrong. The other more progressive people on the list might or might not go to the park days and it might well be popular knowledge that they don't agree with the Obama-bashers or perhaps none of them go to the events either, since it seems like everyone is of that mindset there. I happen to know there are definitely progressive homeschoolers in the Panhandle and perhaps if you become a little more pro-active at finding some of them, you might.

I do not agree with your sister, but I just think that as your children get older, you will find it easier if you have some local friends who homeschool so that you can better field your sister's criticism. Plus, if you actually take your sister to a big homeschool event some day, and let her see all of the regular looking kids playing and running around together, perhaps she will think twice about blabbing on in an unwanted manner next time.

[deesmomma]

"As far as assuming that everyone on your homeschool list agreed with the Obama-bashers, even though you live in the Florida panhandle, was well, likely wrong. "

You're probably very right. And we have tried to make a few park days, but no one showed. Thanks for lighting the fire back under my behind to keep trying.

And that's a negative on my sister. She will never admit she was wrong lol.

[jeteaa]

This is my first yr of "real" hsing.... meaning dd1 is in K. In all honestly, I feel that the hs kids who can be good examples of kids who CAN "deal" and are well socialized are kids whose hs parents work hard at getting the kids out of the house, making play dates, going to hs groups/co-ops/park days etc, taking the kids to classes...... I think there is a valid argument against hsing when a parent doesn't help make these activities happen. so for OP, if you care about what sis thinks, then have a conversation with her addressing each of her concerns. Hopefully you can ease her worries and maybe she can bring to light some short comings on your part....

[RiverSky]

Originally Posted by deesmomma

You're probably very right. And we have tried to make a few park days, but no one showed. Thanks for lighting the fire back under my behind to keep trying.

I'm really active in my homeschool group in SW Florida and if anyone were to assume that we were all one way politically, religiously or in homeschool philosophy, or style of parenting, they would be very mistaken. I'd say it's 50/50 politically.

I find that if you post a week before a park day and ask people to meet you at the park, perhaps even set up a poll and ask who is coming, or even offer to bring a craft for all the kids to do at the park, the attendance at park days goes up dramatically. You could even set up a "show n tell" at the park and try to get people to bring their children to show off anything they want to show off (toy, project, collection, experiment, playing a musical instrument, etc.). Free, easy and fun for the kids. Good luck.

[RiverSky]

Originally Posted by jeteaa

Hopefully you can ease her worries and maybe she can bring to light some short comings on your part....

I disagree with this. It might work with a few but the OP's sister feels she is some kind of expert (having a psychology degree) and is ADAMANTLY against believing that her sister could guide anyone in healthy socializing (totally ridiculous, of course). I think the only chance is for the sister to stop complaining (with time) or for her to come to the realization herself after a year or two of seeing more homeschooled kids in life, perhaps going to a few large homeschooling events, or starting to realize that homeschooled kids are all over, with all sorts of amazing parents.

Best of luck, OP!

[LauraN]

Here's the thing, OP: your sister thinks she knows better and that she has a right to tell you what to do with your own kids. This is only peripherally about homeschooling but really about boundary setting. Trying to convince your sister about your choices is a losing battle and not worth your time because the real issue is that she doesn't get a say in your decisions about your kids.

I would definitely take the attitude that this is not up for discussion. Put up your boundaries and hold them tight. The most I would say to her is that no amount if fancy degrees make her an expert on me or my kids and that you have made the right decision for your kids. Then change the subject. Every time she brings it up, change the subject. She doesn't have to like your decisions, but she also has no say in them. You don't have to defend them to someone who has made it clear they're not willing to listen with an open heart. So don't talk about it with her anymore.

[LauraN]

Oh and I forgot to say that I am also in Florida and my Homeschool group is also about 50/50 Christian and secular. And though I was also worried about the same issue at first, one of our favorite families is a right-wing Christian one. Turns out we have more in common than not, and we just agree to disagree on politics and religion.

And I wanted to join the PPs in reassuring you that you are correct about bullies and other socialization issues. It is far better for your kids to learn from your modeling and with your help than to be left to fend for themselves inthe school yard. Or at least it is definitely not worse

[Jennifer Z]

I agree with the PP, just don't allow her to engage in that conversation. If everybody on this earth were reasonable, there wouldn't be two political parties.

As far as the local homeschooling group goes, you might consider starting your own list for "Independent Homeschoolers". I live in Kansas, a state so red they "call it" for the republican side before the voting starts. There are liberals here, but they are pretty used to being the minority and just rolling their eyes at the conservatives on a regular basis and will often not argue just so that their kids aren't ostracized.

Around here, for the longest time, it was very conservative ruled on the homeschooling lists until somebody finally just started a list for "Independents", with the statement that all are welcome, no matter what the religion or political affiliation. What usually ends up happening with that, is that you tend to lose the conservative Christians, but pick up a more well rounded group. In ours, most of the Christians are on the liberal end of the spectrum, but we also have Buddists, liberal Muslims, Jewish and completely secular homeschoolers. Topics on religion and politics are pretty much avoided on the lists and it tends to just be actual homeschool and community events information without all of the stupid forwards. (and if you are the list owner, you can squash any attempts of trying to pass along the junk email forwards that seem to circle so prevalently on the Conservative lists)

It took a few months to really get off it's feet, but it is far more informative and just a nicer feel to it. We have just a few "rules"...be nice, anybody who wants to do a park day, post it. If you post it, make sure that you show up though. That means it can be as simple as "Hey, we are going to be at such-and-such park at 2pm tomorrow...anybody can join us if you want" to people talking about coordinating field trips or more elaborate events. And you can only join the list if somebody who is already on the list has meet you in person and knows that you are a real person and not a stalker or something. The person running the list can invite people who have applied to events so that they can get the "meet somebody" requirement out of the way, but usually people find out about the group through somebody anyway, so it isn't really an issue.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by LauraN

Here's the thing, OP: your sister thinks she knows better and that she has a right to tell you what to do with your own kids. This is only peripherally about homeschooling but really about boundary setting. Trying to convince your sister about your choices is a losing battle and not worth your time because the real issue is that she doesn't get a say in your decisions about your kids.

I would definitely take the attitude that this is not up for discussion. Put up your boundaries and hold them tight. The most I would say to her is that no amount if fancy degrees make her an expert on me or my kids and that you have made the right decision for your kids. Then change the subject. Every time she brings it up, change the subject. She doesn't have to like your decisions, but she also has no say in them. You don't have to defend them to someone who has made it clear they're not willing to listen with an open heart. So don't talk about it with her anymore.

But first, , I think it would be fun to give her a copy of that report RiverSky mentioned:
Evidence for Homeschooling: Constitutional Analysis in Light of Social Science Research, published in the Widener Law Review.

And there have been some good threads around here about the bullying nonsense... Oh wait! Here's a great thread:
Common Misconceptions About Homeschooling. Not that I'd encourage you to keep discussing it with her, but it's bound to come up sometime when you least expect it, you being sisters and all, so it doesn't hurt to be prepared.
Lillian

[Lillian J]

OH, and none of us remembered to suggest the Bean Dip method of handling this nonsense.
Lillian

[AAK]

Honestly, she sounds like a bully to me! Geez, why do certain family members feel that because of the "family" status, that they can berate you? Would she hound her friends like this? I doubt it. . .and yes, I know that she probably would state that NONE of her friends would consider hs. But really it doesn't have to be just about hs, but anything that they have differing viewpoints on.

Anyways, as for me, I would probably avoid her honestly (but I don't really like that kind of conflict). But, eventually, if that didn't work, I would give her the information from Lillian J with the statement that "I don't want to hear about it anymore, especially if you don't educate yourself first".

Amy

[avent]

I would definitely try harder to get to the homeschool group get-togethers. Even if you don't agree with many of them politically, one great way to model social behaviors for your kiddos is to show them how to interact with people who are different.

As for your sister, I would avoid talking about it ("bean dip", "thank you for your input") and wait until your kids are older and the proof is in the pudding.

Were all those kids who lived on farms social misfits because they spent time primarily with their families? Geez.

[CParker]

"My sister is of the opinion that being bullied and picked on at school is what prepares children for real life. And I...I just don't know how to respond to this."

Personally, if someone were to bully me I'd call the police. I don't think you need to go to school to learn to do this.

I think its unfortunate that people teach their children to tolerate potentially abusive situations because they think it'll toughen them up. It teaches victimization and victimizing more than anything else. Just my opinion though!

As LillianJ mentioned, I think its a "pass the bean dip" topic. It sounds like your sister very much has her opinions set and no research, etc. you present will change her mind. Sorry you have to "deal".

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by deesmomma

To the actual point! My sister is of the opinion that being bullied and picked on at school is what prepares children for real life. And I...I just don't know how to respond to this.

Tell her it's an interesting hypothesis, and ask her what evidence she has the being bullied and picked on is useful, because her idea seems out of line with the research that has been done.

http://www.education.com/reference/a...ects-bullying/

What are the long-term effects of bullying?
Source: Education.com
Topics: Bullying and Teasing



The physical and emotional consequences of being a victim of bullying can be severe. Children who are bullied are:

At greater risk of depression and lower self-esteem later in life.1
More likely to report migraine and non-migraine headaches.2
Prone to missing more school because of excused and unexcused absences.
At higher risk for running away from home.1
More likely to have problems with alcohol and drug use.

http://www.child-psych.org/2009/10/b...pathology.html

1. Among females, being a victim (but not a bully) was associated with a significant increase in the risk for later psychiatric hospitalization and psychiatric medication use. Most importantly however, this association was significant even after controlling for the girls’ psychiatric symptoms at age 8. That is, the association between being a victim of bullying and negative psychiatric outcomes could not be accounted for by the presence of psychiatric symptoms in middle childhood.

ETA:

I guess ultimately what I'd like advice with is, how do you teach your children to "deal with the real world?" without subjecting them to bullies/being picked on?

We live in a neighborhood with a huge group of kids my kid can hang with. IME, neighborhood kid "politics" aren't as brutal as what happens in school.
IMO, there's nothing "real world-ish" about the social dynamics in elementary and Jr high schools. Not any more than military boot camp is useful for preparing for life as an accountant.

[deesmomma]

Thank you soooo much for those links mamakay, I'm saving those for a rainy day.

[sha_lyn]

Originally Posted by CParker

"My sister is of the opinion that being bullied and picked on at school is what prepares children for real life. And I...I just don't know how to respond to this."

Personally, if someone were to bully me I'd call the police. I don't think you need to go to school to learn to do this.

I think its unfortunate that people teach their children to tolerate potentially abusive situations because they think it'll toughen them up. It teaches victimization and victimizing more than anything else. Just my opinion though!

As LillianJ mentioned, I think its a "pass the bean dip" topic. It sounds like your sister very much has her opinions set and no research, etc. you present will change her mind. Sorry you have to "deal".

ITA...My response to the opinion that children need to be bullied and harassed is: What you consider normal behavior in public school is considered criminal behavior in the real world. Thus proving the point that public school is not a reflection of the real world."

[mangopassion]

I didn't get to read the whole thread (yet), but ... about your sister: first of all... ewww! secondly, she doesn't have any kids, does she?

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Lillian J

Common Misconceptions About Homeschooling. Not that I'd encourage you to keep discussing it with her, but it's bound to come up sometime when you least expect it, you being sisters and all, so it doesn't hurt to be prepared.
Lillian

, no I do encourage her to keep discussing it with her sister. Such as
"Hey sister, don't come whining to me about homeschooling unless you can come up with something new that isn't mentioned in this thread."