single mamas going back to grad school? how did you do the $$?

[RollerCoasterMama]

I'm at a cross roads. I figured out how to get where I want to be. But, it's a 4 yr program. I've already got a graduate degree (and accompanying loans) and I dread taking out more.

Pros:
99.9% guarantee of six figure teaching offers pretty much anywhere in the country. Starting out it doubles my current income.

Gets me out of the metro and back home where I have friends and family

Gets me out of the corporate cube gig.

Gets me to the academic environment I've been wanting to get to all along.

More flexibility for stuff with DS.

Pretty darn sure I could get hired back home where my mom teaches.

Cons:
Terrifying to have to quit a good job and go back to school for 4 or 5 years. I'd be 40 by the time I finished after getting the pre-reqs done and going back full time.

Program isn't offered back home. It is offered where I (and STBX) live now. Very high COL. Back home, I know how to live on nothing. Here I don't.

Debt. Yes, I could pay it off quickly, but it's still there.

Research requirements. Bleh.

If I don't do it here---which leaves me in the metro for another probably 7 years, I'd have to move even further away and I don't want to leave if STBX manages to keep a job here. Back home = just a few hours, no biggie. Esp once DS is a little older. But across country isn't something I want to do.

Online is too expensive. It would take forever and double my student loans.

Does giving up four years of $55 to make $120-$150K out the door make sense? How the heck will I pay for living expenses with no money coming in? Driving downtown scare the pants off of me. I could easily talk myself out of this. EASILY. I don't even know if I could get in the program, though I've never been rejected from anything academic. But I always stuck to local stuff before. This is local to me now, but much more competitive.

More pros and cons???? HELP!

I keep reading the PhD students rarely pay tuition. Is that true? So weird. Then I'd only need living money. Which is still too much to borrow. And extra jobs plus the kiddo isn't exactly work-able.

I feel like I'm talking myself out of it. I want what's at the end of the rainbow, but want in 2 years, not 7 and I've been dealing with crisis from STBX for 9 yrs, so I'm pretty risk-averse.

Opinions??? TIA!

[~pi]

It's very difficult to give an opinion without knowing a little more -- there is an enormous range of what is possible in academia. (And I know of no PhDs with 99.9% guaranteed job prospects.) What would the PhD be in?

Originally Posted by RollerCoasterMama

I keep reading the PhD students rarely pay tuition. Is that true? So weird. Then I'd only need living money. Which is still too much to borrow. And extra jobs plus the kiddo isn't exactly work-able.

It depends somewhat on the program, but yes, in general, if you are a good PhD prospect, you (a) won't pay tuition and (b) will get a stipend of some kind. In the sciences, for example, the annual stipend can be quite generous. Nothing like you would make in industry, but not bad for a grad student. I.e. on the order of 20-30k. Some people make more; a few make less. You tend to get paid better for a research fellowship or research assistantship (RA) than a teaching assistantship (TA).

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by ~pi

It's very difficult to give an opinion without knowing a little more -- there is an enormous range of what is possible in academia. (And I know of no PhDs with 99.9% guaranteed job prospects.) What would the PhD be in?
.

PhD in Accounting. They're crazy short on people to fill in the gaps to teach while the Boomers retire. My mom actually runs the Masters in Accountancy program at a University and has been recruiting new faculty for years. It's true. She's been telling me this for years. They're hiring people straight out of school with no experience for $120K starting out and getting turned down because people are getting offered $150K elsewhere. But $120K there is a LOT of money! And it's more than the established faculty get! Mom could double her salary by changing universities and getting at the current hiring rates. Esp since she's got 30 yrs teaching experience and is published lots. But even newbies with no experience are being courted by universities all over the country

http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/20...ntials/p66.htm (It's a couple years old, but still accurate.)

http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/...Accounting.htm

I know, it's totally trippy to see anything looking to hire these days. I've read horrible things about graduates in almost everything else the last couple of years.

Hope this is helpful. I was trying to be vague, but I can see how it would come across as unrealistic.

[RollerCoasterMama]

p.s. I found this : http://www.adsphd.org/index.asp

Looks like the industry is actively trying to recruit and has a stipend set up. Might be do-able. My local university isn't on the list, but there is one just a state away and several near the in-laws...which wouldn't be horrible.

With a stipend, I could pull it off without much in the way of new debt. I'm really good at living on nothing much. It's ADDING to the debt that worries me the most.

Now, I'd need a crazy high GMAT score probably and a 4.0 in pre-reqs to pull it off. Do-able. Lots more variables than what I've ever done. I aced the LSAT without studying and got right into law school.

AUGH. Too much to think about. Oh, and it looks like this is for industry professionals to entice back to school---not something I've quite got without a stretch of imagination a bit. But it shows how desperate the industry is for PhD qualified professors.

[punkrockmomma]

I just started school a couple of weeks ago. Why not start applying to the programs and see what happens? I know the only reason I'm in school right now is because everything fell right into place. If it hadn't I wouldn't be in school right now. I look at it as it was meant to be. Maybe take the same approach. If everything doesn't work out the way you need it too, then don't do it. At least you know for sure then that it isn't doable then. I hope this makes some sense to you.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by punkrockmomma

I just started school a couple of weeks ago. Why not start applying to the programs and see what happens? I know the only reason I'm in school right now is because everything fell right into place. If it hadn't I wouldn't be in school right now. I look at it as it was meant to be. Maybe take the same approach. If everything doesn't work out the way you need it too, then don't do it. At least you know for sure then that it isn't doable then. I hope this makes some sense to you.

It does. I want to talk to my mom a bit and pick her professional brain to find out if I'm being realistic, what the pre-reqs are, GMAT requirements. GMAT would take some serious studying for a couple of sections, but I'm a good test-taker. Maybe start working towards it and see what happens.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by punkrockmomma

I just started school a couple of weeks ago. Why not start applying to the programs and see what happens? I know the only reason I'm in school right now is because everything fell right into place. If it hadn't I wouldn't be in school right now. I look at it as it was meant to be. Maybe take the same approach. If everything doesn't work out the way you need it too, then don't do it. At least you know for sure then that it isn't doable then. I hope this makes some sense to you.

I agree with this.

I am a solo mama gearing up to start back on a 2nd masters in April.

It took me 6 months to decide to take the plunge, due to the financial/student loan issue. I also have accumulated significant debt from my BA and 1st Masters. My first masters was a fast-track career decision (a one year, intensive masters with combined teaching certification) to be able to support myself and ds asap.

Anyway... what really helped me was:

1) Researching the field and various local University programs
2) Talking to the program advisor of the University I was most interested in.
3) Researching the various loan repayment plans and forgiveness programs -- there are many new plans/programs being implemented that really helped me to make this decision
4) Getting honest and real with myself... with the help of a great therapist and amazing friends.

I also felt that if it was meant to be... it would present itself without too many obstacles. If I were meeting lots of obstacles and challenges along the way... it wasn't meant to be.

I am happy to say... everything has just fallen into place. I cannot tell you how excited I am to start this journey. I feel like I am finally doing what I have wanted to do with my life... following my life's path.

My advice: start the process and see where it leads you.

[~pi]

Well, if it's truly a sure thing and you have strong potential to get some funding of some kind, then I would certainly at least commit to applying, and see what happens.

Originally Posted by RollerCoasterMama

I know, it's totally trippy to see anything looking to hire these days. I've read horrible things about graduates in almost everything else the last couple of years.

Yeah, it really depends on the field. E.g., my field (like many sciences) is hiring, but even still, 99.9% is an overestimate, especially if you are not interested in actually doing research.

Sounds like you have a great shot! Good luck!

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by ~pi

Well, if it's truly a sure thing and you have strong potential to get some funding of some kind, then I would certainly at least commit to applying, and see what happens.


Yeah, it really depends on the field. E.g., my field (like many sciences) is hiring, but even still, 99.9% is an overestimate, especially if you are not interested in actually doing research.

Sounds like you have a great shot! Good luck!

Oh, if I did this, it would be with the knowledge that research and publication requirements would be part of my life. But the kind of things they can do are a little different kind of research. This is where it's really handy to have family in the field. I know what types of projects my mom has been doing...studying how management vs. employees understand and implement certain standards, how non-profits operate, things like that.

I'll see what my mom says and go from there. And at least take a stab at a practice GMAT and see where I land. Then I've got about 5 pre-req classes...so none of this would happen quickly.

Then of course there's the soon-to-be-ex-spouse issue. I don't think he'd fight me moving after a moment or too. I'll definitely involve him in the discussions from the beginning. We talked about it briefly last night even.

Thanks for listening to me ramble. I need to sort some things out still. This is still truly a 50-50 thing at this point.

Oh...and on the research thing, I actually like crunching number and playing with statistics. And I'm no stranger to writing! BA in English Lit plus a law degree. Writing is what I do.

[Dar]

FWIW... a PhD in accounting is one of the few doctorates where full support is less common, at least in my experiece talking with people going into it (I teach GMAT prep courses and while most of my students are going for MBAs, I've had a few looking at PhDs in accounting, although this was at least a couple of years ago).

I would go into debt for this, personally, but YMMV.

You can download a free practice GMAT from mba.com and see how you'd do... it's all on the computer now.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by Dar

FWIW... a PhD in accounting is one of the few doctorates where full support is less common, at least in my experiece talking with people going into it (I teach GMAT prep courses and while most of my students are going for MBAs, I've had a few looking at PhDs in accounting, although this was at least a couple of years ago).

I would go into debt for this, personally, but YMMV.

You can download a free practice GMAT from mba.com and see how you'd do... it's all on the computer now.

Thanks. Got off the phone with the mama. She said that in her experience, free tuition is normal and a stipend for TA or RA, but typically the stipend isn't something you can live on---just covers books and fees.

But---she's encouraging me to go for it. At least taking the first couple undergrad classes this summer/fall and see if I even like it. No harm if it turns out accounting turns my brain to mush. I know my study skills and test-taking---I'm rusty, but I can study my way to a killer score for the GMAT.

Now...get the STBX-spouse on board because it will involve moving in a couple of years.

Oh, and she said that typically people are coming in at about 40 yrs old since they've worked in business for a while first. And demand is only going to go up in the next few years. Most of her own dept is within 10 yrs of retirement and they're pretty typical.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Hey all---thanks for listening...it was good to have somewhere to talk through it. I have a plan. The plan is...get into the first of the pre-requisites. If I get that done without allowing myself to be stopped by the road-blocks (there are a couple, but not insurmountable)...I'll figure I'm really all in.

I also think that I will definitely make sure that STBX and I discuss long-distance visitation. I wouldn't come up with me for at least 2.5 yrs, possibly longer than that. But he's military, so it really could happen at any time. I think it's valid to go into that with eyes open and a mutual agreement in the decree.

So phase 1 = get into a pre-requisite class and see if I even like it!! :P I think I'll be fine though---I've taken graduate level statistical analysis coursework and not only enjoyed it, but ended up leading the pre-exam study group for my classmates.

[Dar]

Sounds like a good plan! It's nice to feel like you're moving forward...

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by Dar

Sounds like a good plan! It's nice to feel like you're moving forward...

Plans are my friend. I'm a big fan of them. Although sometimes the ones that could actually happen are more scary then the castles in the sky kind!!

And spoke with the spouse about the fact that we need to consider this issue. Doesn't sound like it's going to be a problem. Esp since so much of this is tentative and years in the future...we should be able to come to a mutual agreement to put into our custody agreement about "what if". YAY! On to Phase 1.

[griffin2004]

do you want to make more $$ or do you want to be an accounting professor?

if you are an attorney, you can make more than $55g without too much difficulty and no more schooling/debt

are you a CPA? do you need to be one to get into the PhD program?

I wouldn't worry about the age thing. 40 is still very young with lots of career years left.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by griffin2004

do you want to make more $$ or do you want to be an accounting professor?

if you are an attorney, you can make more than $55g without too much difficulty and no more schooling/debt

are you a CPA? do you need to be one to get into the PhD program?

I wouldn't worry about the age thing. 40 is still very young with lots of career years left.

I want to be a professor--always have and figured I'd find some way into the field at some point. I'm at a place in my life where I can make changes---I haven't been there for a long time.

I could make more money as an attorney...the not too much more difficulty thing isn't quite true. Jobs are scarce, I'm not licensed (and don't intend to get licensed) and the hours are significantly more than I care to put in. It was a life-style choice to go this route. I probably make a little more than $55K but less than $60K, and zero raises again this year, so that's not changing any time soon! So this isn't really about money, but the salary at the end is what makes it possible to think about because I could actually pay off my law school loans some day!

You do not need to be a CPA. My background is fine. PhDs are more on the research side of things.

And reassurance from the mom on the age thing---she said most people don't go straight to the Accounting PhD but come to it after some time working. So I'd be about normal.

Now...take a few classes for a couple of years, and study my way to a killer GMAT score.

[Dar]

FWIW, one of my GMAT students who was later admitted to a PhD program in Accounting was in her late fifties, I believe... I suppose I could be off by 5 years either way, but she was still a lot older than your average grad student (and I'm guessing older than you!).

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by Dar

FWIW, one of my GMAT students who was later admitted to a PhD program in Accounting was in her late fifties, I believe... I suppose I could be off by 5 years either way, but she was still a lot older than your average grad student (and I'm guessing older than you!).

That takes reeeeeally wanting to do it! We had someone about that age in my class at law school too. She had grandkids almost our age!

Age-wise it sounds like I'll fit in. It's not that far away. I'd be 36-ish when I started the program full time. And finishing at 40. That gives me a solid 20-25 yrs working in a field I want to be in, vs. living in a cube for the next 30 yrs and dreaming about being a professor.

And...perk I haven't mentioned to the spouse---if I pull this off, DS can go to school relatively inexpensively! I came out of my undergraduate years with zero loans because of the discount (plus they saved carefully over the years).

IF IF IF. It's a great plan, but now it's time to implement it.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Thanks again mamas! It's good having somewhere to think out loud.

I applied to get re-admitted to my undergrad alma mater as a non-degree seeking student. They've got the first of my classes that I need online this summer.

The first baby-step is done! The more I think about it, the more I want this to happen for me and for my DS. I'm really excited!!!

[RollerCoasterMama]

Ok, I'm a dork and I promise to stop updating at each step, but I keep thinking how handy this info would have been for me a few days ago.

1. Researching schools and it looks like the majority of the good ones do free tuition plus a stipend that's enough to live on (CHEAPLY)--like $20K-ish. It's not an elaborate lifestyle, but it will pay rent in a low COL area. Plus, DS would be in elementary school by then, so childcare would be much less of a strain on the budget.

2. Pre-reqs...WAY more than 5 or 6 classes I was thinking. A very very busy two or three years to get there. But the foundation is necessary to suceed. I'll need A's on all of those classes (which should let them focus on my current abilities and willingness to work vs. my undergrad coasting 15 yrs ago), and a SERIOUS GMAT score.

3. Applying for my work-place tuition reimbursement program to help pay for the pre-req classes. As long as I don't take any reimbursement for the 12 months before I intend to quit, I'd be meeting all departmental obligations. And since this will take AT LEAST 2 yrs to do (essentially picking up an Accounting major without asking them to turn it into a degree), then I might as well get them to cover it. (I think I'll be ok since I work in a finance department and want to take finance classes, so it's relevant to my job.)

4. The placement rate really is as good as I said in my first post. If you earn the degree, you WILL be a professor if you want and you WILL have choices on which position to take. I've been researching the heck out of it, and looking at a whole lot of programs, and it's not hype.
It's falling into place!!!!!

Oh, and STBX is very on board. He knows this is the best thing for us. He also knows that it's YEARS from now and could fall through. So no freaking out. And we'll be able to put in that we can move and some long distance visitation guidelines into our custody agreement from the beginning. Then we don't need more lawyers later.

So...with that all worked out, I'm suffering the usual terror/intimidation of a new school (happened in high school, college, law school---everything). But I have an advantage over myself 10-15-20 years ago...now I know I can do it. I'm motivated. And I am willing to do the work. (I just have to keep reminding myself!!!) I can do it I can do it I can do it. And I am going to say up front, that this degree will be harder work than any others I've done. I don't think I've been in a position where I've been willing to face that work before. Motivation is a great thing.