arthritic dog-wwyd?

[lisalulu]

We have a 110lb lab mix who will be 10 in July. A couple months ago he started limping on his right leg. He loves fetching and we thought he may have landed wrong and waited a few weeks to see if it got better. It didn't and we evetually went in to the vet.

They took an x-ray and couldn't find anything in the hip (good b/c they're concerned about that being an issue in the long run) but thought there might be a spot in his ankle that looked arthritic. They sent it out to a radiologist just to make sure they didn't miss something-which they didn't. So we went on rimadyl and carprofen for several weeks with no change.

Hoping to avoid long term drugs that would require liver monitoring we stopped the drugs and are now trying a high dose glucosamine/MSM supplement. At first it seemed to help but lately he's been limping as bad again. And when he limps, he seems to twist his hip in a funny way that worries me that he may be doing damage.

The vet also suggested a possible injectable drug-can't recall the name.

So what would be your next step? Is it possible its not arthritis and its something you can't pick up on film? Did we give the rimadyl/carprofen long enough to try and work?

His limping hasn't slowed him down-he begs and begs to fetch (which we don't do anymore) and I've caught him on our tall bed and I know he's been propping himself up trying to countersurf in the kitchen when we're gone-maybe that's causing some of the continued limping?

Sorry this is so long!

TIA!

[greenmagick]

I would keep up the MSM and add DGP (Dog Gone Pain)....its an herbal product for pain. My 10 year old lab mix is doing much better with this combo...really seems to be helping. I know of others who have used this combo successfully for arthritis, hip dysplasia, and more. Also, check around for prices...its retail is like 40 a bottle but I usually get it for around 22 after a little googling....usually even through amazon

I have also heard wonderful things about Springtime Longevity, but have not personally used it.

Good luck!!!

[Shahbazin]

Can you take him to a veterinary acupuncturist? They can often work wonders with arthritic issues. Here's a good site for finding someone: http://www.altvetmed.org/

[Oubliette8]

You might ask your vet about Metacam. Its a liquid pain reliever. We used it when my Lab got arthritis and it worked really well. It was a bit pricey, but that was several years ago. My vet said its supposed to be easier on their livers than Rimadyl is.

Supplements are also a great idea- but remember they will take awhile to work, unlike pain killers. Since it sounds like his limp is severe, I'd probably give him a few months on pain killers with the supplements, before trying to wean him off the drugs and see if the supplements have helped any.

Could they have missed something? Yes. Its always possible. Did you tell your vet that the pain killers didn't seem to help? Its possible that the pain is so severe that the pain killers aren't masking it, but its also possible that the limp is caused by a mechanical or neurological problem. If your vet says its arthritis, I'd assume it is, but if you feel something is off, you can ask your vet to reevaluate, get a second opinion, or take your dog to a specialist- vet schools and large urban vet practices tend to have specialists like veterinary orthopedists and neurologists if you wanted to go that route.

[lonegirl]

Metacam is great. Did you call them back and let them know that it doesn't seem to be working now.
Are you actively trying to have him lose weight? 110lb is quite heavy for a lab mix. A little less weight will help the joints.
The injections they likely mentioned would be Cartrophen injetions...specifically for arthitis http://www.kvh.com.au/Cartrophen%20Vet.html

[greenmagick]

oh, just wanted to add....for my dog, the DGP started working within a couple days at the most. It is actually herbal pain relief so it works a bit quicker. Metacam worked great for my moms great dane and I would use that before Rimadyl, but both do have side effects with long term usage, especially the rimadyl.

[lisalulu]

Thank you for the suggestions!! I'll look into all of them.

110 is his slim weight! He's a big, broad dog. Not sure what he's mixed with but 110 is the vets goal. I think we're actually near 117 due to the lack of fetching so we cut him back 1/4 cup of food/day.

[Ola_]

Wow, 110 lbs sounds big to me! Esp. for a dog with joint issues I would want to be almost able to see his ribs just a bit. It's the best thing you can do for his joints. And sadly most vets are so used to seeing overweight dogs that they're not always the best judge of that. How tall is he at the shoulders?

Do you have options for exercise that are easier than the fetching? Swimming is great and regular walks would be excellent also. It's very important for him to have lots of muscle to support the sore joints.

I have a retired racing greyhound and due to all the impact his joints have been through in his first five years I have him on a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement as well as fish oil capsules (they are a natural anti-inflammatory). For health issues like this you'll probably want to give the max dosage of 1000 mg/10 lbs of weight, just work up to that dosage slowly because since it's an oil it can cause loose stools if you give too much at once.

[lisalulu]

Originally Posted by Ola_

Wow, 110 lbs sounds big to me! Esp. for a dog with joint issues I would want to be almost able to see his ribs just a bit. It's the best thing you can do for his joints. And sadly most vets are so used to seeing overweight dogs that they're not always the best judge of that. How tall is he at the shoulders?

Do you have options for exercise that are easier than the fetching? Swimming is great and regular walks would be excellent also. It's very important for him to have lots of muscle to support the sore joints.

He's about 24.5 inches.

He does get two walks a day-about 40 minutes total/day. He would go bananas w/o them. When the weather is nice he runs around outside with the kids.

And really thats the most curious thing about his limp. He doesn't seem to want to stop any of his activity and it hasn't slowed him down. Is that a lab thing? Its hard to tell if he's experiencing any pain except that he limps.

[Ola_]

Dogs are normally very good about hiding their pain (normally, I have one who is a drama queen and one who is very stoic). It's a survival instinct I think because the weak members of the pack would be vulnerable in the wild.

24.5 inches is within the breed standard for purebred male labs (22.5-24.5" is what the ACK says). For those heights the corresponding weights are 65-80 lbs. Now the build of the individual dog does make a difference IMO, but I'd still be taking some weight off. Do you have any photos of him from the side standing straight?

[greenmagick]

yeah I have a lab mix that is right around 25 inches and is a little tubby at 85lbs. He looks best right around 78-80lbs. Of course different physiques are different but it sounds a little heavy...my dane (a more slender breed albeit) is 31" and weighs just under 110

[Oubliette8]

Since the vet has seen the dog in person, I'm inclined to think that 110 pounds is probably about right. If the OP is concerned that's too heavy she could ask again. Without seeing the dog in person, its hard to know what his weight should be. I've seen 100+ pounds labs that were not overweight. I've also seen labs that would have been morbidly obese at that weight- my girl was just right at 60 pounds. My sister has a tall (24-25"?) mixed breed who's ideal weight is around 35 pounds! Keep in mind that labs come in a crazy variety of shapes and sizes. Rotties are of a similar height, and routinely weigh about 100# give or take. Without getting your hands on the dog in RL, I just don't think there's a way to know what a good weight for this dog should be.

[greenmagick]

Originally Posted by Oubliette8

I just don't think there's a way to know what a good weight for this dog should be.

oh I totally agree...but it is a possible concern with arthritis. My moms labmix was obese at 85 lbs (she shouldve been around 60) and the vet always said she looked great...she really did not! A second opinion cant hurt is all I meant.

[Oubliette8]

That's true, I know some vets are afraid to bring it up at all because people can be really touchy about weight issues with their pets. A second opinion would certainly not be out of order.

[lisalulu]

Ok I took a pic tonight. Here's the link

So in talking to dh (who has vet duty) the vet did mention his weight and that's where the 1/4 cup reduction a day came from. But she didn't say he was "overweight" nor was he supposed to come back to check his weight-just that it could help his joints? I know a previous vet mentioned us likely not being able to get him too much lower than 110lb. But I really didn't know it was such a touchy issue and some vets avoid it. Otherwise I may have asked dh to push them about it a little. If he is truly overweight, I would definitley like to get it under control.

Thanks for all the input!!

[nd_deadhead]

Here's a photo of my purebred lab, at 110 lb. He was quite a bit taller than your dog (he could easily put his chin on the kitchen table, if he wanted to). He had arthritis and terrible hips, so we tried very hard to control his weight.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ogry/Jack1.jpg

From the picture, your dog looks a little roly-poly around the back. You should be able to feel his ribs when you place your hand on his side, without having to dig for them. Looking at him from above, you should be able to see a distinct waist - an hourglass-type figure.

Has your dog been tested for Lymes disease? My Corgi and my brother's dog both have it, and it shows up as limping. Antibiotics work wonders.

[greenmagick]

hard to tell from a pic but he does look like he could loose a bit. Labs are notorious for being overweight so I would err on the side of caution.

did I already ask...what food is he on?

[lisalulu]

He's on Kirkland Signature. We were on Wellness but we had to tighten our budget and someone told me this was a good compromise??

I actually got the reduction in his food wrong so-

Old diet (until last Dec.)
4 cups dry and 1/3 can wet per day

New diet
3 cups dry and 1/3 can wet per day

[greenmagick]

yeah, kirkland is not a bad compromise. I am horrible about kibble amounts as I dont feed it. I know with my lab mix, he slowed down a bit last year and gained a little weight....he slimmed down again and now is starting to get a bit chunky all on the same amount of food. It was all activity level. After I started the MSM and DGP he became more active again, actually playing with the pup etc. It aslo became summer so we were naturally out more. I ran out of DGP for a while (bad mommy) and didnt really realize a difference until I looked back....he stopped playing, got crabbier again, slower, and gained some weight

[LittleRockstar]

You've had lots of good suggestions so far. Have you looked into the Glyco-Flex supplements? Adequan injections? We do these for my 12 year old GSD. We also use Metacam as needed and we get monthly acupuncture. LOVE the results of the acupuncture!