melatonin and babies

[TzippityDoulah]

I've posted here many times so I will skip the full intro, but basically I have two kids with SPD. one is a baby and he NEVER sleeps. well, he sleeps but he wakes constantly. (I mean constantly!) and he takes lots and lots of nursing and rocking to get back to sleep. not even co-sleeping helps much. so I've been staying up with him all ngiht pretty much since birth. he's 9 months old and I'm so beyond tired!

He has a lot of allergies and intolerances and I've been on the ED for several months. I find that I'm not able to add much of anything back in - infact he sleeps worse and seems more reactive to foods now then when I started. (except he has recently stopped his chronic reflux/barfing which is nice.)

I know he's behind and depleted in could probably use some detoxing... but being that he's so young and intolerant to just about everything but sunlight I have difficulty in that area. He is solely breastfed right now. he's tasted an avocado and a bite of rice cereal (just rice, no additives) a couple of times for fun, but never to really eat. he doesn't have much interest in eating - well except everything on the floor! he tries to eat ANYTHING he finds on the floor lol.

I haven't done much in the way of supplementing b/c of his extreme reactions to so many things. I was hoping just taking the right mixture of things out of his diet would be helpful and then I could build back. CLEARLY that isn't the case... and he needs some things added back in.

as he has so many needs, I decided to start with sleep. granted this isn't an easy thing b/c obviously all sorts of things can cause loss of sleep and what not. But I figured I gotta start somewhere. so as I've tried every natural trick in the book, I'm finally ready to give melatonin a try.

he's 9 months old. roughly 22 lbs give or take (we're not one for well baby visits heh).

any advise on how much or the ins and outs of melatonin I'd really appreciate. I realize he is kinda young for it - but for now I'm actually worried over his lack of sleep so I'm willing to try something out.

Thanks in advance!

He is almost always fussy.

[showurhorns]

WOW!! This sound like my life. My 15 month old DD hasn't slept since she was 4 days old!!! She was diagnosed w/ a sleeping disorder in Nov 2009. My Neurologist had us try .275ml of 1mg liquid melatonin. We discontinued due to it gave her nightmares(very common). We did try a new nighty night potion w/ some improvements. 3oz plain Kefir+ 3oz formula. She did finally quit night feedings @ 14 months. I get about 4 hours of sleep instead of 2 most nights. Kefir has L-tryptophan. So does yogurt. Kefir is lactose free. It isn't actually yogurt. It has milk cultures added. If you aren't familiar w/ it google it. Great health benefits.

FYI Iron and B12 Deficiency can cause sleep issues. You might try adding some to your diet as he still nurses. I recommend Floradix Iron + Herbs. I know my DD has probable issues due to her oral aversions and does not get proper nutrition. We supplement w/ Next Step Formula and Nutrition Drinks. We are at present time awaiting blood lab results checking her iron/B12 levels.

We are also going to try a weighted blanket (got one ordered). She moves constantly and has RSL (which can also be caused by iron deficiency). You might try that also.


Wishing you precious sleep from one sleepless mom to another!! I hope something helps. An extra 10 min is 10 min!!! I hope it more like a couple of hours Sweet dreams!

[TzippityDoulah]

thanks for your reply! I totally know how you feel! we are getting a weighted blanket for my older 5 yr old girl who has SPD. we've talked about getting the baby one too.

for what it's worth melatonin gave me nightmares too. but I only ever tried the time-release formula and i've heard that it does that to some people. this time I'm trying a different kind and a lower dosage.

yes I hear ya on the supplements! I know he's deficient. I'm actually on another forum here about supplementing!

[showurhorns]

Where is this supplement forum? I wasn't able to find it? I could use some suggestions on that subject!

[TzippityDoulah]

actually it's a sleep forum - but we're talking about supplement. actually I'm asking lost of question and others are giving me suggestions they sent me over here to read about melatonin a bit more.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1059165

[sbgrace]

I wonder if reflux pain may be a factor in the sleep issues? Is that possible? My son was still refluxing after he outgrew the spitting up part of it (he would just swallow it back I suppose or it just came up part way). I'm wondering w/reflux and so many food issues if EOS disease has been ruled out?
I don't know about giving it to babies (my son has taken it for a long time but not when he was so tiny/he did have sleep issues because of reflux). We did put him in a tucker sling and that did help sleep. He was also reflux medicated until 3.5 and when we finally found a reflux med that would help sleep improved.
This is hard and I so feel for you.

[TzippityDoulah]

yes i suspect he has some reflux still. we arent doing reflux meds b/c thus far weve not found one that worked and we are concerned with the kidney and nuerological side effects. i am only ok with meds if it's a last resort and it works well enough to out weigh the side effects yk?

[sbgrace]

Your sleep issue may (probably is I'll dare say) a result of the untreated reflux. Further serious damage can occur (my son was spitting up blood by the end). But the fact that you've not found one that works makes me further wonder about EOS. Have you seen a pediatric gastro doctor?

Did you try a PPI dosed three times per day? Zegerid is what finally worked for us. You can do probiotics and enzymes to try to counter the side effects. Not treating a baby in pain has worse side effects imo though I know you are struggling to find something that will help him and I sympathize and so identify with that.
Here is a chart w/correct dosing. Any PPI at his age is a three times a day medication and doctors (esp. non-GI ones) often don't do that leading to a child who isn't well controlled or worse.
http://www.marci-kids.com/dosing.html
Here is information about PPI dosing issues:
http://www.marci-kids.com/dosingppis.html

I know you would like to avoid meds. I think, though, giving melatonin at this age would make me uncomfortable as well (it is a hormone his body should be making and, again, my son takes it every night and we love it here it's just that he's so small) and I question what will help if indeed the reflux pain is the issue.

A non med approach might be a tucker sling! We did both.

I know you're trying so hard for him.

[TzippityDoulah]

thanks for you reply! to answer your feedback:

he would never tolerate a tucker sling - he sleeps on his belly. he is still only 9 month but he's active - almost walking. I have had two kids with reflux one meds so I know ow it is - both silent reflux and not. spitting and not spitting. this is totally different. he wakes often - but never in pain. he doesn't cry a lot, he doesn't spit, he doesn't make gurgle swallow noises and so forth. he has zero symptoms of reflux sans if I eat something on the "no no" list. which is why I stop eating those things to beginw ith. we have had a lot more results from me keeping away from no no foods than with meds so we have stuck with that.

as far as melatonin being a hormone a body should make - I completely agree! but a baby shouldn't naturally have relfux either. melatonin supplementing is only in the interim. it's not what I aim to do long term but any stretch!

for what it's worth I have always had serious sleep problems myself. and I don't have reflux. I have chronic insomnia and always have. especially while nursing. I think it may be a results of adrenal fatigue which I'm trying to correct. thisis why I;m thining melatonin...

hope that better explains.

[MotherWhimsey]

If you did give him melatonin (which I don't think is recommended under 2 very often) then it would only help him fall asleep and would not make a difference in the amount he actually wakes. If you gave him too much, it could cause him to wake more. My son was on it and still woke up every 20 minutes every night until we accidentally figured out that it was stomach pain that was making him wake up. The melatonin did absolutely nothing to help with the frequency of the wakings. It just got him to go down easier. Now that we have the stomach pain treated (he has a tube and we put a drainage bag on the tube to his stomach) he sleeps pretty well, but he was on melatonin long before that.

[TzippityDoulah]

well i suposse that would be something we'd have to figure out through trial and error just like you did. i don't know what else to say. i'm pretty tuned into my guy, and though i'm not dead set against the idea, my gut doesn't think it's the reflux - or atleast not completely. i'm pretty well versed on gerd/reflux... not saying i know it all b/c obviously i dont. just saying i don't think that is his main issue - think it's a symptom of a greaer problem.

[TzippityDoulah]

SBgrace -

Iforgot to answe you question about the ped gastro.

to be honest no we've not taken out littlest to the ped gastro. th reason? well b/c he has the same issue my last two had and they went back and forth from specialist to specialist. test after test. consult after consult... and all the ended up with was a shrug. the last doctor i saw actually told me I was just going to have to get used to the fact that she was going to never not be in pain. I was outraged! (my daughter puked ALL of the time, couldn't hold down ANY foods, and screamed 24-7 til she was almost 3!!) I was out of money and patience. so I said forget western med we're trying the alternative route. we revamped her diet, took out allergens and have spent since the slowly rebuilding her system to health. she's not perfect but she can eat and doesn't scream all of the time. she has SPD so she's got issues she deals with, but she's good with good. celiac like me though.

that said when I realized my littlest as going the same route we decided since western stuff only made our last worse (way worse infact!) we would try a different path. so far he's about 75% better than my daughter was. (thank God!) but we can't get him to eat anything but breastmilk (which is fine for now b/c he's only 9.5 months), he fusses a lot (never screams though) and he wakes constantly.

I hope you can see it's not that I don't want to get him tested, it's that everything we've one naturally up until this point has been helping. I'm just now searching for more b/c I see his progress is slowing down so I'm concerned. melatonin was just a trial for us. it's not an end all be all. I was hoping if it did help him (and me) sleep it would give us a little more enery into finding what will help him..

I'm reluctant (though not completely agianst) western medicine. I don't agree with their philosphies and the medicines they use. BUT, I can't deny sometimes it si the way to go. first I will outrule every other possibility for natural healing though. (pretty much the exact opposite of what I did with my daughter!)

[showurhorns]

HennyPenny-The baby has SPD? I am assuming that you are familiar w/ brushing/joint compressions. Have you tried before bed? Does he have problems w/ dairy? The L-Tryptophan I think helped us the most for us. Neurologist recommended: yogurt, cheese and turkey. I prefer the Kefir over yogurt, it also has tryptophan in it.

They (pediatricians) tried and tried to tell me that my DD wasn't sleeping due to silent reflux. We finally went to a Pedi GI DR. He almost completely ruled it out. He said he couldn't rule out completely unless he did a upper GI. We decided against it. We also had tried the reflux meds...it MADE her spit up!!
And improved nothing!!
Since he has the feeding issues, I would lean more to a deficiency over reflux.

FYI my PEDI NEURO said the melatonin was completely safe. It was his suggestion. Like I said it didn't work for us. He always tries the natural stuff before meds. Melatonin might help if he is having a hard time getting to REM sleep. Which he must if he wakes as often as mine,
Does he struggle w/ naps? DD takes better naps than @ night sleep. But it took 10 months to get there. She takes better naps now than as a newborn.
At the time we saw the Neuro the 1st time she was taking 3 2 hr naps. I question whether or not I should cut out a nap. He is no because if she wasn't sleeping at night she needed the sleep. We are down to 2 2 hour naps.

[showurhorns]

ADDED NOTE: DD also has issues w/feeding. She won't eat cheese or turkey. She will use a straw cup so......I mix the Kefir w/ formula (your case maybe breastmilk). We also but cereal in it as first so it was thick. Plus it added iron!!!! Kefir is also Gluten Free. I swear by the Kefir. NO I don't work for them !!! They have fruit flavors if you think he will do better w/ a sweet flavor to get his intrest.


I also get what you are saying about Western Medicine.
After having 6 "unexplained" miscarriages. It is just a fluke the stupid Dr told me. I saw multi Infertility Drs. I started w/Chinese Med and accupunture. Needless to say I carried DD to term!!!!

[TzippityDoulah]

Showurhorns:

yep we do all the SPD "therapies". my 5yr old has it so it's kinda old hat to us now ykwim? you know though, now that you mention it I have slacked on the brushing thing for both of them. I always go joint compressions and what we call "sqeezies" but I kinda just forgot about brushing - who knwos why. I should get back to that! thanks for the reminder!

he can't do dairy... but i'm hoping to wean him onto goat's milk for some extra stuff my milk is not providing. funny you mention this b/c you know what I boguht at the story day before yesterday? GOAT KEFIR! haha too funny. I didn't realize it had L-Tryptophan in it though! I was thinking of finding a way to supplement this for him via pill form - I should have looked into that better. so I guess I should go ahead and give that a thought. (it's still in my fridge b/c I hadn't decided yet if I was gonna give it)

again though - my son does have reflux to some degree - but it's a symptoms just as it was for my daughter. they are almost identical (except we've kept him off of western meds for the most part which actually has done him pretty well. aside form his issues he's never sick from colds and such. my daughter was sick 80% of the time!)

thanks for your support

[auraorigin]

Hey there, sounds as if you have a lot of info. just wanted to add that maybe making some turkey broths(tryptophan!) in a slow cooker with rice or barley or some other non wheat grain although barley maybe has some offending gluten stuff..for wheat intolerances. Fish oil, bone broths(tryorganic bones preferably just add water to bone and some seasonings, maybe add celery, carrots onion and sea salt for taste takes very little time and is cost efficient there are many recipes onlline, I have used boullion cubes a lot for taste but probably not healthy! Toddler loves just about anything I make in the slow cooker..whole family can eat it. Also if you are breastfeeding you can take green foods, magnesium and calcium for calming , sit in the sun for vitamin d and calcium absorption, and supposedly epsom salt baths can be calming and detoxifying? have not tried those yet, oatmeal also has some calming effects and is gluten free (can also be used in the bath but I was saying for eating!). Good luck mama!

[mrsfru]

If the baby can tolerate lactose in a tiny amount, I think Calms Forte (homeopathic) may be helpful. You can even buy it at some Wal Mart/Target/Bilo/etc. I have used it w/both of my boys. I have also used Melatonin w/my oldest when he was the size of your lo. I have no problem giving it a try and would do it again in a heartbeat. He started having night terrors due to sleep deprivation...it was worth it! Plus, b/t him being premature, on an apnea monitor, needing to feed so often....plus a bunch of elderly dogs who peed a lot and one w/seizures....I hadn't had more than 2 straight hours of sleep in 4-5 yrs! LOL FWIW, I am quite comfy w/melatonin, b/c we've used it for so many years w/our animals for thunderstorm phobias, help w/seizures, etc. And I know what you mean about the meds, reflux, and food intolerances--we did that w/both of our boys, too. Hang in there!

Best wishes mama!

[TzippityDoulah]

thanks. we do bone broths every week actually we're huge fans of bone broths! that said, my 9 month old isn't eating any foods yet, I'm not so sure bone broth is the best thing to start with. I'll have to look into that one. hmmm...

mrsfru- thanks for the support

[nayma]

laura, first of all, so sorry to hear about your sleep struggles. i did (and still do) relate 100%. it's a bit better, but, wow, 3.5 years is a lot of sleep deprivation. i hope whatever you choose works well for everyone .
i haven't read all the comments, but wanted to say a weighted blanket has been good for my dd, as has melatonin. it doesn't help with waking, but does help her get to sleep. epsom salt baths seem to help, but ca/mg didn't help a ton. if you have any hesitation about melatonin, what about valerian? is that considered safe for babes? last thing - do you swaddle? i swaddled my daughter until she was about 6 months, and at that point, my mom was so insistent that babies shouldn't be swaddled for too long . more than anything, i wish i'd listened to my gut on that one. dd really resisted it, but i think swaddling would really have helped he settle her body.
again, you have all my empathy! i hope it gets better - soon.

[TzippityDoulah]

we swaddled until he was 5 months when he refused to be swaddled anymore. he likes to sleep on his stomach now. I can't really swaddle against his will! heh

valerian? I havent looked into it really.melatonin was a huge step for me - I'm not crazy about giving a nine months old too many things to begin with. I'll look into it though.

thanks