Writing - 3rd grade

[bdavis337]

My 3rd grader and I could use some serious help developing his writing skills. Aside from his fine motor skills issues (aka bad handwriting!), it's time to put some real effort into his writing ability. For some reason I can't seem to get him past how to indent a paragraph, even the idea of organizing ideas and basic outlining is something he's having trouble with. We need something more than just me saying "organize your ideas".

???????????????

[4evermom]

What I do is take dictation. That way ds can focus on his writing without his dexterity being an issue or the down right fatigue of hand writing more than a sentence or a list. Not to mention spelling. It works best if ds is composing something meaningful to him. Once, he wanted to write his cousins a letter. He dictated, I wrote and read it back to him. We had a brief discussion of whether some sentences should be in a different order to make better sense. Other times, he composes text for a computer game he plays. Some of it is description, some dialogue. He occasionally asks me to make it look like the speaker got suddenly cut off for dramatic effect.

I think this is the most important aspect of writing, getting one's thoughts on paper (or the computer, lol) and using writing for communicating. The details such as indenting for paragraphs (which I think is falling by the wayside and may well be obsolete by the time he is an adult) will come in time. Focusing on it prematurely will likely negatively impact the creative process. I don't think he needs to know how to do things like outlining this soon.

Here is a nice article I just came across...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/opinion/02engel.html

[elizawill]

in december we purchased spectrum writing and spectrum language arts books. they have helped my daughter so much. my daughter was really struggling with writing any thoughts independently. even writing a paragraph or a few sentences seemed daunting for her. since we've introduced the spectrum books, she finally has direction in this area (where i seemed to be failing her). i'm not familiar with the 3rd grade book, but the second grade books have been perfect for my child & she really enjoys them. you can probably preview them online. they were very cheap used from amazon. hth.

ETA - here's an amazon link with a preview...
http://www.amazon.com/Spectrum-Writi...16&sr=8-2#noop

[theretohere]

This is more of a language arts issue then a writing one- some of what you need is handwriting, some is grammar, and some is writing. Are you interested in a textbook approach? What about all in one programs vs. individual items? Does it need to be secular?

[meetoo]

My dd is in first but scott foremans has been helpful to her and it's free.

[bdavis337]

Originally Posted by theretohere

This is more of a language arts issue then a writing one- some of what you need is handwriting, some is grammar, and some is writing. Are you interested in a textbook approach? What about all in one programs vs. individual items? Does it need to be secular?

YES! You're right. Grammar is a real issue for him, as is spelling past a certain level. I want to stop taking his dictation - it's time for him to put his own thoughts on paper. He writes ok thank you notes and the occasional friendly letter to a family member but not without serious input and help from me, at his insistence. He's not willing to make spelling mistakes and won't complete a sentence without asking if it's ok.

Secular vs. religious doesn't matter. I think a textbook approach would be a good one for us right now, but I'm not sure what you mean when you say all in one vs. ind. items for this particular subject.

[MyLittleWonders]

Have you looked at something like Writing with Ease and First Language Lessons? Or, there's the Michael Clay Thompson curriculum, which combines grammar, poetry, vocabulary, and sentence building (the first year is sentence building, the second year is paragraph, and the third year is essay writing). Both sets of programs will teach him how to put his words together in well thought-through sentences, leading to paragraph writing.

Another idea is Writing Tales. I have not used it, but it is another program that will help him put together his words into good writing.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by bdavis337

YES! You're right. Grammar is a real issue for him, as is spelling past a certain level. I want to stop taking his dictation - it's time for him to put his own thoughts on paper. He writes ok thank you notes and the occasional friendly letter to a family member but not without serious input and help from me, at his insistence. He's not willing to make spelling mistakes and won't complete a sentence without asking if it's ok.

Secular vs. religious doesn't matter. I think a textbook approach would be a good one for us right now, but I'm not sure what you mean when you say all in one vs. ind. items for this particular subject.

I think you should look at the Rod and Staff English program, then. It's written by conservative Mennonites, but it's really solid. It covers grammar and composition in the same book- they also have a spelling program. http://www.rodandstaff.info/samples/english/ You can see samples here.
What I meant by individual items would be my next suggestion- if the Rod and Staff doesn't look right I'd look at Growing with Grammar http://growingwithgrammar.com/ and Writing Tales which a previous poster linked to.
HTH!

[elizawill]

yes, writing tales is a great suggestion. we've never used it personally, but i've looked into it for my dd. it gets great reviews. we own rod and staff english. it's pretty good, and i use it as a point of reference with our spectrum books. if you don't mind christian, another thought is christian light education. it's also cheap & very thorough, and the reviews are excellent. it integrates spelling, handwriting, grammar & composition. http://www.clp.org/store/by_subject/3

meetoo, thanks for the link! i forgot about that!!!!

[bdavis337]

We do use a lot of Christian materials, but Rod and Staff always seems to pedantic and condescending to me. Plus, I find it nice to branch out from the Bible stories and use other things for base sometimes, you know? But I could be wrong about R&S writing, I'll have to look into it.

Are any of you educators, as in education degrees or the like? I'd really love someone who could look at what he's doing and let me know what level he's working in. I can figure him out in reading, math and other areas, but this one has me stumped.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by bdavis337

We do use a lot of Christian materials, but Rod and Staff always seems to pedantic and condescending to me. Plus, I find it nice to branch out from the Bible stories and use other things for base sometimes, you know? But I could be wrong about R&S writing, I'll have to look into it.

Are any of you educators, as in education degrees or the like? I'd really love someone who could look at what he's doing and let me know what level he's working in. I can figure him out in reading, math and other areas, but this one has me stumped.

Rod and Staff was written for the classroom, so there are a lot of examples and work to do. Most homeschoolers cut way down on the examples and problems.
I hope you find what you are looking for!

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by bdavis337

Rod and Staff always seems to pedantic and condescending to me. Plus, I find it nice to branch out from the Bible stories and use other things for base sometimes, you know? But I could be wrong about R&S writing, I'll have to look into it.

i'd say R&S english is definitely pedantic, but i don't think it's condescending (or at least i don't see that?). i'd describe it as old fashioned & very bible-centered, but all of their materials are like that. it's so cheap though, you could just buy the TM and use it as a point of reference. this is what i do, and it works well this way. or just buy something totally different. there are so many other options that are great as well, ykwim?