Nap Time at Day Care Centers - Page 2

[KempsMama]

I do child care for an eleven month old boy in my home whose mother has used CIO since birth.

I have tried every technique possible to get this little boy to nap. The only thing to do is to hold him while he screams himself to sleep. He fights it every step of the way. But the only alternative is to let him scream in the pack n play, and I can't do that. (This is what the mother has told me to do).

There are other issues with this particular child, but I'm guessing what you saw at the day care center was a similar situation. It's sad, but the care provider was doing what was best for the child.

EDITED: Apparently my wording was off, I didn't mean to imply all high needs babies have been CIO'd. Simply that in my experience this type of behavior can be caused by CIO and the DCP should be given the benefit of the doubt.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by KempsMama

I do child care for an eleven month old boy in my home whose mother has used CIO since birth...I'm guessing what you saw at the day care center was a similar situation.

As the parent of a child who was a very high needs baby and toddler who screamed an awful lot (and had to be walked around rocking, nursing, etc. to get to sleep much at all), I wouldn't make the assumption that the parent uses CIO just b/c her child screams at the daycare center while trying to sleep .

I certainly hope that others didn't make that assumption about my parenting. I spent dd's first two years basically not sleeping b/c she cried constantly at night and slept in 30 min intervals at best. I walked the floor with her screaming in my ear and held her b/c it was better than listening to her scream with no one attempting to comfort her. My efforts may not have fully worked, but at least she knew that she wasn't alone.

[darcytrue]

Originally Posted by tbone_kneegrabber

I dunno sounds good to me. That's what it would have taken for ds to fall asleep for someone else when he was very little and sometimes for me.

I agree. My DD is 4 1/2 months old and she will sometimes fight going to sleep and will get overtired and it takes holding her up against my chest firmly (not smothering her) while rocking her, in order to get her to calm down enough to start to drift off to sleep. She will sometimes cry until she gets the hint that I'm not letting up. It doesn't take long though. I'd have no problem with someone in daycare doing this with her if that's what it takes.

[Marsupialmom]

My reflux baby was that difficult to get down. She wouldn't nurse to sleep either. She when I put her to sleep but not her dad. As she grew we had to "hold" her down. Some babies are that difficult.

I watched a reflux baby for a while. He would go to sleep easy but his mom said 30-45 minutes into a nap he would "cry" wait 5 minutes if he stopped he was asleep if not he need something. She found our by accident she was being to attending and what very reason at this point he "cries" out but not always awake. If you attended to fast you woke him. She never let him CIO to sleep.

[KempsMama]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

As the parent of a child who was a very high needs baby and toddler who screamed an awful lot (and had to be walked around rocking, nursing, etc. to get to sleep much at all), I wouldn't make the assumption that the parent uses CIO just b/c her child screams at the daycare center while trying to sleep .

I certainly hope that others didn't make that assumption about my parenting. I spent dd's first two years basically not sleeping b/c she cried constantly at night and slept in 30 min intervals at best. I walked the floor with her screaming in my ear and held her b/c it was better than listening to her scream with no one attempting to comfort her. My efforts may not have fully worked, but at least she knew that she wasn't alone.

I don't make the assumption, we have had extensive conversations about it and I have been around when it happens. She brings him to my home, says he needs a nap, lays him down in the pack n play and leaves while he is screaming as if in pain. She has stated that this is how it's been since he was born, that she never rocked him or anything because she didn't want him to get used to it.

I never make assumptions about others parenting, everyone has to find their own groove. I was simply pointing out that this could be a possibility. I'm sorry if I offended you.

[PluggingAway]

OP, in my opinion, it felt wrong to you for a reason. It's way beyond my comfort level to have my child, regardless of age, restrained against his will to enforce a nap. I honestly would be devastated if I walked in on my child's caregiver employing this technique for nap time.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by PluggingAway

OP, in my opinion, it felt wrong to you for a reason. It's way beyond my comfort level to have my child, regardless of age, restrained against his will to enforce a nap. I honestly would be devastated if I walked in on my child's caregiver employing this technique for nap time.

What do you suggest a caregiver do? They need kids to nap at the same time. That's a simple fact of life when you have multiple kids. I've done childcare. When the kids don't nap at the same time (which is how I started because I wanted to let the kids nap when they wanted) it means that it becomes almost impossible to do anything with the kids in the afternoon. then you can't go outside because you have sleeping kids. You can't do anything that requires supervision (like crafts or messy sensory stuff) because you might have to leave the room to deal with a kid who's waking up or going to sleep. You end up with kids fighting and throwing tantrums because they are tired.

There are many things you can do when you only have 1 or 2 kids and the luxury of making your own choices (like deciding to let a kid nap at 4pm). When you add in other parents needs (like having a child nap at a reasonable hour so they will go to bed at a reasonable time so that you can wake them up at the right time in the morning) and multiple little kids, what is reasonable to do changes.

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I have a baby now that absolutely CAN NOT fall alseep when being held or even having someone else in the room. You have to put a heavy blanket on his back, rub his back VERY hard, to the point that the crib is moving back and forth, then he will relax long enough to fall alseep.

He never, ever relaxes when being held. He's the kid that an outsider would look at and think "SHe's pounding on that poor baby's back, it looks abusive". He even cries. But, he's crying because he doesn't want to lie down. Not because I am shaking him like that.

He's the kid that would either cry all nap time, or need to be wrestled to sleep.

[justKate]

Originally Posted by Janette21

About the holding part, I gave a lot of thought into it. And I decided it isn't something I would ever do, although I respect others decisions for chosing the holding technique. I think the true reason he was crying out "Mommy!" was because of the attitude of the teacher. She didn't look too happy about nap time and seemed a little frustrated. I think the infant would of handled the situation a lot more easier if she wasn't so frustrated and maybe tried to talk to him softly, rub his back while she held him, etc. I think the baby sensed that she was very frustrated and reacted the way he did because he did not like being around all of her negativity. But thank you all so much for all of your replys! I greatly appreciate it!

It does sound like the child's cry was related to the caregiver, who may have been frustrated with him.

My DD is 4 1/2 months old and she will sometimes fight going to sleep and will get overtired and it takes holding her up against my chest firmly (not smothering her) while rocking her, in order to get her to calm down enough to start to drift off to sleep. She will sometimes cry until she gets the hint that I'm not letting up. It doesn't take long though. I'd have no problem with someone in daycare doing this with her if that's what it takes.

My 1 yr. old DD will ONLY sleep if held still. Sometimes it doesn't seem very gentle, but she really needs that kind of help getting to sleep. I would be fine with her DCP doing this for her, but only if they knew her well and understood what she needs. Thankfully, she is slightly more willing to nap for them than she is for me.

[PluggingAway]

Originally Posted by JL83

What do you suggest a caregiver do? They need kids to nap at the same time. That's a simple fact of life when you have multiple kids. I've done childcare. When the kids don't nap at the same time (which is how I started because I wanted to let the kids nap when they wanted) it means that it becomes almost impossible to do anything with the kids in the afternoon. then you can't go outside because you have sleeping kids. You can't do anything that requires supervision (like crafts or messy sensory stuff) because you might have to leave the room to deal with a kid who's waking up or going to sleep. You end up with kids fighting and throwing tantrums because they are tired.

There are many things you can do when you only have 1 or 2 kids and the luxury of making your own choices (like deciding to let a kid nap at 4pm). When you add in other parents needs (like having a child nap at a reasonable hour so they will go to bed at a reasonable time so that you can wake them up at the right time in the morning) and multiple little kids, what is reasonable to do changes.

I would expect that my caregiver respect my child as a human being with individual wants and needs.
Why is it ok to restrain a baby against his will to fit an adult's predetermined schedule? I get being over-tired and needing sleep. Heck, with young kids of my own, I've been utterly sleep deprived and exhausted but too wired to sleep. Would I expect my DH to restrain me for "my own good" or for the good of the group while I screamed, flailed, and thrashed? No.
I admit that I'm just not "getting it". What about eating? I'm sure it's beneficial for "the group" if the kids eat lunch all at the same time. I wouldn't think that it would be ok to physically over-power a 14 month old baby and shove food in his mouth, because, well, he must be hungry and if he doesn't eat lunch now, then it may interfere with the group's craft time, outside time, or the family's dinner time.
I know that there are some real logistical hurdles to group care. I also know that some kids "need" the extra sensory stimulation of pressure in order to relax and may require some sort of physical restraint, but I certainly see that as the exception and not the rule. Trust me, I wouldn't judge if I saw a caregiver/parent use that technique with their child. But for MY child, I would be livid if that technique was used with out my consent.

[petey44]

Originally Posted by PluggingAway

I would expect that my caregiver respect my child as a human being with individual wants and needs.
Why is it ok to restrain a baby against his will to fit an adult's predetermined schedule? I get being over-tired and needing sleep. Heck, with young kids of my own, I've been utterly sleep deprived and exhausted but too wired to sleep. Would I expect my DH to restrain me for "my own good" or for the good of the group while I screamed, flailed, and thrashed? No.
I admit that I'm just not "getting it". What about eating? I'm sure it's beneficial for "the group" if the kids eat lunch all at the same time. I wouldn't think that it would be ok to physically over-power a 14 month old baby and shove food in his mouth, because, well, he must be hungry and if he doesn't eat lunch now, then it may interfere with the group's craft time, outside time, or the family's dinner time.
I know that there are some real logistical hurdles to group care. I also know that some kids "need" the extra sensory stimulation of pressure in order to relax and may require some sort of physical restraint, but I certainly see that as the exception and not the rule. Trust me, I wouldn't judge if I saw a caregiver/parent use that technique with their child. But for MY child, I would be livid if that technique was used with out my consent.

This is why my dd went to a center for only 4 days, and has since been in a small, loving home care setting. My dcp has the kids nap when they're tired, and usually all 3 are down for at least part of the same bit of time. But they've learned that if someone's sleeping and they're not, they need to be quiet and just eat snack/look at books. Some children (imo, most) can't conform to such a regimented schedule at such an early age, and shouldn't be forced to. As far as what to do with the kids who nap on their own schedule, if the other kids are ready to go outside or whatever- well, that's why there are teacher:child ratios at centers. One teacher can take a group of kids outside, while the other teacher stays in with the kids who are napping/playing quietly. Reverse later. Doesn't seem complicated to me.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by PluggingAway

What about eating? I'm sure it's beneficial for "the group" if the kids eat lunch all at the same time. I wouldn't think that it would be ok to physically over-power a 14 month old baby and shove food in his mouth, because, well, he must be hungry and if he doesn't eat lunch now, then it may interfere with the group's craft time, outside time, or the family's dinner time.

The daycare we used put food out at a certain time, the kids were allowed to choose whether or not they ate, and then the food was put away. The kids learn quickly that they should eat when the food is offered.

I agree that it sucks. At home we graze and are very flexible with naps. At daycare, my DD knows to eat snacks when they are there and knows she needs to nap when it's that time.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by kap728

As far as what to do with the kids who nap on their own schedule, if the other kids are ready to go outside or whatever- well, that's why there are teacher:child ratios at centers. One teacher can take a group of kids outside, while the other teacher stays in with the kids who are napping/playing quietly. Reverse later. Doesn't seem complicated to me.

As a "loving home provider" there was only 1 of me... I had 4 kids (3 nappers 1 non-napper). There would have been no way for me to take some kids outside while others slept.

I rocked each of my nappers to sleep in a sling. They had a set order and none of them fought it. But, it worked because they knew it was happening. I don't think it would have worked if they knew the other ones weren't also going to go to sleep.

[LilMomma83]

Both my boys went through (well the second one actually just started) a stage where they have to be held very snugly in order to fall asleep and yes they do cry, but, I *do* believe it is what's best for them because they both are very sensitive to any external stimuli and unless it is pitch black and completely quiet (can't happen for nap time, especially at daycare) they need help settling down and would fight it...but, ultimately it is the only way for them to nap. So I think it depends on the child. I do think it is horrible that she sat in a rocking chair and let him cry for an hour...I don't care how mainstream a center may be, I imagine doing that when I am being paid to care for the children. You are probably right too, that if the baby sensed the DCP's frustration he may have been more upset instead of calmed. How sad.

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Originally Posted by PluggingAway

What about eating? I'm sure it's beneficial for "the group" if the kids eat lunch all at the same time. I wouldn't think that it would be ok to physically over-power a 14 month old baby and shove food in his mouth, because, well, he must be hungry and if he doesn't eat lunch now, then it may interfere with the group's craft time, outside time, or the family's dinner time.

As a provider, we eat lunch at lunch time. It's my job to fix and serve the food. It's the child's job to eat it. If he or she has decided not to eat that meal, snack time is just a few hours away, and they get another chance to eat then.

Nobody would ever force feed a child. It's their tummy, they eat it or they don't eat it. But, once it's gone, it's gone.

I have nap time at the same time every day. (give or take 30-45 minutes depending on the group's mood) Then ALL the beds go out, and ALL the kids lay down. Most sleep, some don't, it's not a big deal... but they aren't getting up until nap is over. And ALL of them are completely happy with that. Never in 25 years have I had a parent or a child say "I want him to stay up and play while the other kids nap".

I admit, I only have one baby at a time, so it's not like I have a whole room full of babies to get down for a nap. That would probably be harder. My one infant goes down when he needs to. But, I have manipulated his schedule so he goes down at everbody elses nap time. Besides, he's only stays awake for the social life. Once they go to sleep, they are boring... no reason to stay awake just to hang out with me.

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Originally Posted by kap728

As far as what to do with the kids who nap on their own schedule, if the other kids are ready to go outside or whatever- well, that's why there are teacher:child ratios at centers. One teacher can take a group of kids outside, while the other teacher stays in with the kids who are napping/playing quietly. Reverse later. Doesn't seem complicated to me.

It is complicated. What if six kids are awake, and three are asleep? The techer can't take six kids out. It only works if exactly half the kids are asleep and half are awake. (and hopefully, nobody needs to go in to use the restroom or get a bandaid)

[PluggingAway]

DS was at a daycare center from 12 months to 38 months. In all those drop offs, pick ups, and surprise visits over a two year time frame, I never saw any child, regardless of age, being held against his will to enforce a nap. I'm not convinced that physically overpowering a child to enforce a nap is inherent to group care.

[Altair]

Some children cry at nap time or when they are tired. You didn't like CIO in the crib to deal with it (nor would I) but for some high-needs kids there is no alternative. Cry in arms or cry alone. Cry in arms wins any day in my book. There are MANY babies who will not lie down and be patted, or listen to a book, etc.

Luckily, we don't need to do it often, but for my son, if the cry in arms in not firm, then he'll flail around screaming for hours. Firmly holding him and rocking back and forth means the cry in arms is much shorter. And this is my co-sleeping since birth never been left alone to cry baby.

And yes, it often results in the person being screamed at being frustrated. We're human.

[Ellien C]

I think there's a few things going on here.

At my small day care center, infant naps, feeding and diaper changing were "on-demand." Sometime after a year, they moved to an older room where activities were more structured - they were expected to nap at the same time, eat at the same time and eventually there were set "potty times" but it was of course, available whenever needed. So let's just keep in mind that there is a big difference between caring for 3-9 month old babies where you aren't doing any crafts, they go out in a stroller and can nap when needed and they take a bottle and somewhat older kids.

[dogretro]

In a big group, the kids cannot do what they want when they want mostly b/c of state-regulated ratios. In the infant rooms, yes, sleeping and eating is on-demand. The aging-out time of the infant rooms varies from center to center. At ours, it was 12 months unless there was a special need. Once the kids got to the one year old room, there were schedules. For one, we had one playground and every age group was assigned times to use the playground. We could not just go out whenever we wanted for as long as we wanted. Food temps and serving times are also regulated by the state, so food was served at lunch & lunch was 1/2 hour long (you are not allowed to have food off the steam table for longer than 1/2 hr before throwing it out). When every child in the room is asleep, the childcher ratio actually DOUBLES. This is the only practical time to allow for teachers to take their lunch breaks b/c one teacher is now permitted to supervise 10 1 yr olds as opposed to 5. If even one child is awake during nap time, you are supposed to have another teacher back in the room. As pp mentioned, what if I have 8 toddlers awake & 2 asleep? I am not permitted to take the 8 out by myself. So who would get left inside & miss outdoor playtime b/c I have a time slot to take them out? We did not force kids to eat, but when lunch was over, it was over. UNFORTUNATELY, these are the realities of day care centers! I absolutely agree that they are NOT a good fit for every child or family, BUT they are the choice that many families make & that is that.