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Mamas, Please Help! Oversupply Issue or Allergies?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hello all-

I am writing in a place of desperation and stress. I am the type of person that likes to figure things out and pretend like I have a sense of control in my life. But, I don't know what's going on with my daughter, and it's driving me crazy.

Here is our story: My daughter was born Nov 17, 2009. For the first couple weeks of her life, she had absolutely no problems at all. Her poops were yellow, seedy, and perfect. At around 3 weeks, one night, I noticed she wanted to nurse constantly. She was extremely fussy at my breast and just could not seem to soothe herself (I tried giving her a pacifier at 2 weeks since we had absolutely NO breastfeeding issues, but she just refused and would rather suck on me). Finally, after hours of discomfort, she vomited everywhere and felt better afterward. I'm not talking spitting up- I mean vomit everyyywhere. It was not really projectile, but the amount was so large and the way it came out was just distressing.

At around 5-6 weeks, her bowel movements started becoming green- sometimes runny and sometimes mucusy. And, her vomiting began to get worse. She would sometimes vomit twice in one day, and she was in constant distress, particularly in the evenings. Her pediatrician at the time put her on Zantac, and she started to feel a little better. But, I wasn't comfortable with Zantac, so I went to a holistic doctor. She said that she was sure that it was something in my diet since my daughter has some congestion sometimes (breathing issues as well... difficulty inhaling at times) and she also had cradle cap (which apparently is food related, according to her doctor). I eliminated dairy, and it did very little. I then eliminated soy and eggs- still nothing. Then, I eliminated wheat, nuts, and corn.... and she was still vomiting and in distress- screaming in pain, and pushing and grunting. The one time, right before she vomited, she turned bright red from pushing so hard and then it all came out. I was in major distress. Now, her pediatrician put me on an Elimination Diet. Since Friday, I have only been eating lamb, rice, pears, and squash, and a little bit of olive oil. She began to get a little better and her poops were getting more yellow, but then on Sunday, she had another episode and now we are back to green, explosive poops and a vomiting baby, though the vomits got a little less. The only thing we did differently on Sunday was give her a bath, and I wonder if she has some sort of allergy to the shampoo we are using (she has congestion when I use baby oil as well... figured that one out when I tried to give her massages). Yesterday, she had 3 milder poops (whereas she normally has one explosive one) but they were mostly green mixed with some yellow.

And now I'm wondering if I missed the mark altogether and this is really a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. I do have an oversupply issue- I never really completely feel empty. At night, I still get engorged and my breasts are really full and hard. Also, my DD has had NO problems gaining weight. She gains weight like a champ- I would say she is close to 16 pounds and she will be 3 months on Feb 17 (she was born 8 lbs 9 oz). Additionally, I haven't seen the seedy poops since she was about 2 weeks. However, I am doing block feeding (for 3-4 hours at a time), and it has helped very little. Also, she is not really fussy AT my breast... she just constantly, always wants to suck on me. And when she sucks for comfort, it's usually just small, soft sucks. The only time she finds comfort is when she is at my breast. But, for the last week or so, she is doing this thing where she comes on and off my breast.... not so much in distress but just because this is what she wants to do- not sure what this means.

Also, one more thing- she is the most in distress when her stomach is churning. In the evenings, around bedtime, and in the middle of the night- her stomach makes a lot of noise. I can't tell if it's gas bubbles or something else going on.

Mamas, please help me! I am trying everything, and I don't know what's going on!
post #2 of 20
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to clarify a couple of things in my post (sorry): at 3 weeks, in the first espisode of vomiting, she wasn't really fussy AT my breast so much as just very fussy in general and wanting to just suck and eat to soothe herself.

ALSO, eliminating soy did help a little bit. When I have soy or legumes, she gets VERY upset and her stomach churns so much that it actually hurts me to listen to it. Same thing happens with eggs and I'm thinking nuts.
post #3 of 20


: that it's better soon.

(Drat, nevermind, you've already tried what I suggested and it didn't help. )
post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post


: that it's better soon.

(Drat, nevermind, you've already tried what I suggested and it didn't help. )
Oh please suggest anyway! It might bring a new angle or it might just help to rethink some things or try it a little differently..
post #5 of 20
This sounds very similar to what I was dealing with for 3 weeks, but it seems to be sorting itself out now, so I don't have any suggestions. I thought it was because my milk supply became more balanced and/or DS's gut matured. But your DD is a lot older so those things should have settled for you by now if that was the case. How long is she eating at each feeding?

Oh, I just remembered something that I changed! I was taking my prenatal vitamins until I ran out last week, and it was suggested to me that the iron in that could be causing the green poop. Are you taking an iron-containing supplement?
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSmomtobe View Post
This sounds very similar to what I was dealing with for 3 weeks, but it seems to be sorting itself out now, so I don't have any suggestions. I thought it was because my milk supply became more balanced and/or DS's gut matured. But your DD is a lot older so those things should have settled for you by now if that was the case. How long is she eating at each feeding?

Oh, I just remembered something that I changed! I was taking my prenatal vitamins until I ran out last week, and it was suggested to me that the iron in that could be causing the green poop. Are you taking an iron-containing supplement?
Thanks for the reply, and I'm glad things are looking better for you and your DS Maybe gut maturation just differs from baby to baby... I don't know.

I stopped taking supplements because I heard that could change the color of the stools as well. It didn't do anything
post #7 of 20
How long have you been block feeding for?

We had so many problems with oversupply and overactive let down, hindmilk/foremilk imbalance. So much gas, so much fussiness at the breast (popping on and off the breast, crying, etc), scary projectile exorcist spitting up (that never seemed to upset him...always felt better after). It went on for a while with us until i did consistent block feeding and pumping out some of the foremilk right after the let down, and holding ds steadily upright for at least half an hour after eating, making sure not to move him too much. We also gave him gripe water when times got really tough and sometimes it really worked like magic.

But we only got the green mucusy poo if i fed him from both breasts; never if i fed from only one for a few feedings (i did feedings in blocks of about 6hours).

s
post #8 of 20
If you have a fore-hindmilk imbalance, I think you can do more with block feeding and pre--pumping. This is what worked for us -

Block feeding for 6-8 hours, at least.
Pre-pump off the breast before each feed - at least 4 oz.

I did freeze the pumped-off milk, and he got it once I returned to work. When DH fed him those milks, his BMs would be greener.

Eventually things evened out and we got back to yellow seedy BMs.

We're still nursing at 28 mos, and DS JUST figured out a week or so ago that he can "switch sides." He only ever nursed from one side per feed, sometimes one side for much of the day or night.
post #9 of 20


I'm so sorry. I've been desperate and trying everything and seeing no results and I know how disappointing it is. I felt like such a failure when feeding her my milk seemed to make my DD feel worse.

My OS and OALD is only just resolving itself. It took months of block feedings and eventually my LO got a cold and nursed less for a few days (maybe 4), and that seems to have done the trick.

Are you open to a bottle? You could try giving her a bottle of EBM. My DD has no gas problems on Mam's anti-colic bottle, and the nipple really works for her (and looks a lot like my nipple while she nurses). If she feels better after getting the bottle the tummy problems could be from the letdown. You could also try getting her latched on, then leaning back (sit on the floor & lean back on the couch for example) and rotate from the hips so that she ends up on your breast nursing facing downward. Then gravity is helping with the letdown.

If it's oversupply, maybe pre-pumping can help. Or, again, maybe a bottle if you can pump before and after a feeding and see which she likes more (although this might not help your OS unless you skip the feedings you use a bottle for). My DD never seemed upset at the breast either, and I think that's why we didn't suspect OS. But she popped on and off and tried to comfort nurse round the clock as well.

Cradle cap was allergy related for my DD, but her poops don't seem to be related to anything. I worked for months and have never seen any correlation at all. But I did see vomitting from comfort nursing. It's heartbreaking when they want the comfort but the comfort makes them feel worse. Will she suck on your finger? I've been told to offer the finger nail down and DD loved that. (Beware the chapped fingers that follow)

Did you do the metabolic screen when she was born? If her tummy is reacting this violently I wonder if there is something else going on. Something less related to your diet and more related to her.

Could she have eaten anything off the floor? Maybe she has something in her stomach that's irritating everything? I know some animals can get something in the gut and have crazy weird digestive problems for weeks.

Sorry, I'm grasping at straws. I really hope you find something you can fix for her.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thank you all so much for your support and suggestions.

So I have been block feeding but maybe not as consistently as I should since her doc is convinced this is an allergy problem. I will start going 6-8 hours before I switch sides. I need my supply to settle down a little. I am thinking I will get a manual pump and pump some of my milk out before feeding. I have an electrical pump but don't use it much.

I'm a SAHM and always with DD.... I have tried everything to give her a pacifier and bottle but she refuses both. I think one day I need to just leave her with my parents for a few hours and with several types of bottles so that she eventually just takes it. But the thought of that always broke my heart so I never did it. Maybe I'll try more bottles because I've never heard of mam's anti colic bottle. I try not to let her comfort suck because I'm worried it leads to disastrous results (i.e., throwing up). I hold her and she ends up sucking on my clothes, a blanket on my shoulder, etc. (but still refuses a pacifier). She is just starting to eat her hand but still hasn't found her thumb. Or, rather, her thumb isn't too satisfying for her right now.

I don't think she did the metabolic screen. I think I need to talk to her pediatrician about something going on with her, and not with me.

So I think I will try block feeding more consistently and for longer periods of time (i.e., 6-8 hours). Maybe I'll also try pumping a little before a feeding as well...

How long did it take before you all found results?
post #11 of 20
A manual pump is a great idea for taking off that foremilk -- much more convenient.

I saw an improvement in ds after just a few days (3 maybe?). Improvement in supply took a long time -- probably didn't settle down until ds was about 3months old, (but i think that's when supply matches demand better for just about everyone).

ETA: By about 3months we also found that we didn't have to block feed at all. It was 1 breast only per feeding.
post #12 of 20
i'm sorry you & the lo are going through a rough time. it sounds like allergies to me. that was our experience (though i did have a fore/hind imbalance the first few months as well.)

it took me a few months to find our culprits, but in the end i managed. i went off the biggies (soy, corn, wheat, dairy, eggs) for 4 weeks, then began reintroducing them one at a time, one a week. we had a few bumps along the way, because i kept discovering new allergens, then needing to go back & retest things i'd previously tried.

now i'm off: all gluten, all legumes, all nightshades (tomato, potato, etc), quinoa, millet, fennel, & corn.

he had no problem with dairy or eggs - thankfully, because i'm vegetarian, & not much else was left!

you could be eating an allergen you hadn't suspected, or something hidden. or it could just be taking longer than usual for your lo's system to clear.

have you tried infant probiotics? i've yet to, but it was suggested by others here on mdc. apparently it helps balance the babe's gut flora. it's worth a try.

i hope you figure things out. oh, i don't know if this is everyone experience, but by about my lo's 5th month, my fore/hind milk wasn't an issue any longer. it seems my milk just settled on it's own. i still only offer one breast per feeding, and never offer the other if it's been less than 2 hours.

good luck!
post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moongloe View Post
i'm sorry you & the lo are going through a rough time. it sounds like allergies to me. that was our experience (though i did have a fore/hind imbalance the first few months as well.)

it took me a few months to find our culprits, but in the end i managed. i went off the biggies (soy, corn, wheat, dairy, eggs) for 4 weeks, then began reintroducing them one at a time, one a week. we had a few bumps along the way, because i kept discovering new allergens, then needing to go back & retest things i'd previously tried.

now i'm off: all gluten, all legumes, all nightshades (tomato, potato, etc), quinoa, millet, fennel, & corn.

he had no problem with dairy or eggs - thankfully, because i'm vegetarian, & not much else was left!

you could be eating an allergen you hadn't suspected, or something hidden. or it could just be taking longer than usual for your lo's system to clear.

have you tried infant probiotics? i've yet to, but it was suggested by others here on mdc. apparently it helps balance the babe's gut flora. it's worth a try.

i hope you figure things out. oh, i don't know if this is everyone experience, but by about my lo's 5th month, my fore/hind milk wasn't an issue any longer. it seems my milk just settled on it's own. i still only offer one breast per feeding, and never offer the other if it's been less than 2 hours.

good luck!
Thanks for sharing your story

How old was your LO when you started this diet and how old is he/she now? Were these allergies or just sensitivities? When will you be able to eat those foods again or introduce them to the diet of your LO?

I'm currently taking a probiotic for myself, but the one I got for my DD has "traces of dairy and soy" in it, so I don't know if it would be safe to take.

Does anyone have a brand that they would recommend?
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Path2Felicity View Post
How long did it take before you all found results?
Once I realized we had a supply issue and not an allergy issue I saw an improvement almost immediately. It was gradual, but as soon as the letdown wasn't drowning her, she nursed differently and didn't look for sucking comfort. Then when my supply leveled off, I saw her getting better right along with it. I'm not sure anyone else could see the differences as quickly as I could, but as her mom could almost feel it.

It's so hard to watch their little bellies hurt, but keep looking, you'll find something.
post #15 of 20
the problems began early in his 3rd month, and he is 6mo now. it took just over 2 months to discover the problem foods.

we don't know if these are allergies or sensitivities. he did have cradle cap, and mild eczema when we began this journey, so my belief is that at least one thing was an allergen.

we were going to retest it all at 6mos, but the first thing i retested brought on a full blown reaction: tons of spitup, fussiness, mucousy poop, difficulty sleeping. i decided retesting could wait. we are also delaying introducing solids.

i was thinking about something you said. that you didn't want your lo to comfort nurse because you wre concerned there would be more vomit. i totally understand, but i wanted to suggest you allow it as often as the lo wants.

the vomiting hurts their throats, and your milk can soothe that. plus suckling on mama makes them feel better emotionally. they have the ability to suck without taking milk, did you know that? i wish i could recall where i read that. just be prepared for the vomit, so you aren;t overwhelmed by it.

www.kellymom.com is a great resource.
post #16 of 20
I almost wonder if you're dealing with a complex cause. Some of the things that you're talking about sound exactly like my oversupply/overactive letdown issues, but we never dealt with cradle cap, and eliminating things didn't really help us either.

When DD was about 2 months old, maybe a bit less, she started puking every time I gave her more than one breast of milk at a time. We especially had a problem when we were trying to get to sleep. If she was comfort sucking on one side and I moved her to the other side, she would vomit all over the bed. I had to be careful with my oversupply because it is tempting to try to get the baby to releive engorgement. I learned that I needed to express off that foremilk myself rather than getting my baby to do it.

DD had about a month and a half of green poop starting when she was about 2.5 months old. She was fine up until then, and then she was feeling a bit under the weather and nursed a lot, and I think that's what did it. I tried block feeding, first 3 hours, then 4, then 6. I let DD nurse as much as she liked on a Sometimes, it seemed to help, sometimes not. I think part of the problem was that while I was block feeding, I was getting so engorged on the other side that the build-up was enough to cause the green poop. Things may have been better if I had expressed off some of that foremilk before I switched breasts, but then again, maybe it would have just made my oversupply worse.

DD was gaining weight normally, so after about a month of block feeding religiously (which may have helped get my supply down but hadn't fixed the green poop), I decided to just tap into my mamma instinct and go with it. I nursed her on one side as long as I felt like there was still a significant amount of milk in there. Then, I switched sides. I probably switched sides every 1-2 hours (DD ate every 20-40 min and still does at over 10 months). I felt like this allowed her to "empty" (for lack of a better word. You can never actually empty your breast) each breast before moving on and to get around to nursing on the next breast before it got too full. This was what got us out of the green poop.

We had another green poop issue between 6 and 7 months. At 6 months, I gave DD some avocado as her first solid food. She had green poop starting the next day. At first, I thought it was the avocado, then maybe allergies, then I just don't know. I waited until over 7 months to give her any more solids. The green poop mostly cleared up in the meantime, but there was still one every once in a while. After I started solids, I don't think we've had any more green poops. We haven't had to give her much water, either.

DD also gets mucus in her poop irregularly in the little over a month or so before she gets a new tooth.

I would be more concerned about any pain that your baby seems to be in than the green poop. You may try continuing on the elimination diet for a while while you work on foremilk/hindmilk issues and then start easing up some. It helps if you can get things to a place that you feel they are under control and then start changing things. The hard part is getting to that point of control. Good luck, mamma. I hope your babe feels better soon.
post #17 of 20
I'm another one voting for the longer block feeding - this is what worked for us - I mean seriously, like 12 hours on each side was what hit the nail on the head here. Now, my supply is much more balanced and I can kind of feed "normally" but we still block feed at night. Lovely yellow seedy poop again - yay!
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Path2Felicity View Post
Oh please suggest anyway! It might bring a new angle or it might just help to rethink some things or try it a little differently..
Not really , I just managed to miss a paragraph of your post. I was just going to suggest block feeding, which you already tried, because it would be easier than an elimination diet. But you've already done block feeding longer than I thought improvements should show up.

And with your breasts swelling as it is, it's not going to be good to try to make the blocks longer.

I do know that elimination for dairy can take a month or more to show improvement, so that could still be in your system and your LO's system and messing things up.
post #19 of 20
Or longer block feeding could work. It looks like the mamas who've tried that didn't have problems, so
post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thank you all so much. I really, really appreciate the support and the advice. So, DD seems to be doing a little better (I am keeping my fingers crossed that this keeps up). She is no longer screaming in pain or in constant distress it seems. And, her bowel movements are yellow for the time being. I'm blockfeeding for longer periods and sticking to this rigid diet.

moongloe- I completely feed on demand. Everyone is telling me not to because she'll vomit, and sometimes I think it might be best for her not to let her nurse constantly, but I can't bring myself to do it. It's the only way she knows how to soothe herself. I can't even leave the house on most days because she just constantly wants to suck on me or she's screaming in pain.

But I'm starting to become a little hopeful... I really hope this keeps up!!! I will keep you all updated about our situation
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