Trying to make herbal cough syrup--is this safe

[Violet2]

DD has been sick oh, for about a month now. Nothing bacterial according to the ped, but she's coughing pretty bad.

DH is European and they do some kind of honey onion cough syrup that I thought I would try.

I found a recipe and info from a naturopath here.

But someone told me leaving it out could cause botulism??? Especially if I add some raw garlic???

Does anyone know?

V

[lovelymama2]

I don't really know the answer to your question specifically, but recently I took some cough relief tea herbs (including wild cherry bark), made it into a tea, reduced it by half and mixed it half and half with agave and it really turned out good, just another idea.

[pianojazzgirl]

I've made that before (not having heard any warnings about botulism!), and it was fine, and worked really well. Sorry, not sure about whether the botulism should be a real concern though. I do know that this is a pretty widely used formula.

Another thing that helped my kids' coughs (they both had a lingering one this fall) was a homeopathic remedy that I picked up at the pharmacy. I think it was "Kids 0-9" Cough and Cold.

ETA when I made the onion honey cough syrup I did not add garlic, so I can't speak to that.

[Annie Mac]

The spores that cause botulism are found naturally in many things -- esp things that come from dirt, for example, onions or garlic. Our bodies can deal with these spores (well, once your body is over a year old anyway) unless they are given an anaerobic environment in which to mature and proliferate. Most people know about canned goods being a possible source of botulism poisoning, but any environment deprived of air and containing a possible spore source is going to be a risk. I know that oil provides such an environment, and I would think honey might, too. There are a couple things that the spores don't like though: one is acid, the other is high heat (I'm talking very high heat -- this is why canned meats MUST be pressure cooked, not just boiled, to be safe).

I would approach this like canning. I've never canned straight onions before, but pickling them requires them to be brined (acid in the form of vinegar) and then boiled (not pressure cooked) for 10 minutes (longer if you live more than 1000 ft above sea level). I doubt you really want to boil your cough syrup though, seeing as you've probably taken the time to use raw, unpasteurized honey!

I once took a course on making your own herbal remedies. Very interesting, but some of the practices they taught appalled me from a botulism risk standpoint.

For a cough, I've always liked honey lemon tea -- honey, fresh squeezed lemon juice & hot water. It's yummy with zero risk of food poisoning.

[Violet2]

So what if I put the honey and onion in the fridge to marinate? Same risk?

Is the risk the same as eating raw onions? Should we even eat raw onions???

This is confusing!

Maybe I'll do a chest poultice instead.

V

[blessedwithboys]

my 15yo ds is home from school today with a bad wet cough that is bringing up tons of junk. i would totally try this recipe for him, though so far i have been giving him just plain old spoonfuls of raw local honey.

since i started learning about traditional foods a few yrs ago i have been making something similar to this for spicing up meat dishes. i take raw garlic, peel it but leave the cloves intact, and a big dollop of raw honey,a splash of raw apple cider vinegar, and then top it off with some good EVOO. i let it sit out for a few days and then stick it in the fridge and pull out some garlic to chop up as needed. its never ocurred to me that we could get sick from it.

[Annie Mac]

It's the lack of air + botulism spores + time to mature that causes poisoning. I believe it slows things down when it's in the fridge, but I can't imagine it's a foolproof method. Your chances of getting sick are probably very small if you consume it quickly, but there is still a risk. Raw onions, raw garlic, etc pose no risk whatsoever, because they're exposed to air. However, if you canned them improperly or covered them completely with oil (like a lot of people do with garlic) without acid/heat, there is a risk.

The following is an excerpt from this site: http://cecalaveras.ucdavis.edu/garlic.htm

STORING GARLIC IN OIL
Extreme care must be taken when preparing flavored oils with garlic or when storing garlic in oil. Peeled garlic cloves may be submerged in oil and stored in the freezer for several months. Do not store garlic in oil at room temperature. Garlic-in-oil mixtures stored at room temperature provide perfect conditions for producing botulism toxin (low acidity, no free oxygen in the oil, and warm temperatures). The same hazard exists for roasted garlic stored in oil. At least three outbreaks of botulism associated with garlic-in-oil mixtures have been reported in North America.

By law, commercially prepared garlic in oil has been prepared using strict guidelines and must contain citric or phosphoric acid to increase the acidity. Unfortunately, there is no easy or reliable method to acidify garlic in the home. Acidifying garlic in vinegar is a lengthy and highly variable process; a whole clove of garlic covered with vinegar can take from 3 days to more than 1 week to sufficiently acidify. As an alternative, properly dried garlic cloves may be safely added to flavor oils.

[pianojazzgirl]

What if you made it in a glass jar with no lid?

[tinuviel_k]

I am pretty sure that onion in honey overnight is not going to cause botulism. Honey itself is very antibacterial, and people have fermented diluted honey with fruit since the dawn of time to make mead.
I've made many infused honeys: onion, garlic, lemon balm, rose petal... I have never had a problem. At the worst if the honey got diluted with too much moisture and was left out on the counter for a few weeks the honey might start to ferment. There is no danger of that happening in the fridge.

[plantmama]

You can also just chop up garlic and give it in a spoonful of honey with a liquid chaser if the honey gets "stuck" if your dd will take it?
The reason you aren't supposed to give honey under 1 y/os is botulism so I guess it can grow in honey.