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32 months....still not sleeping through the night.

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
My DH and I are at wits end with our DD's sleep patterns. She has had periods when she's been a better sleeper, waking only for a potty-tunity around 10 and then going back to sleep peacefully. However, the last 4 -6 months seem to have gotten worse. She wakes multiple times in the night, cries out in full blown upset, loudly sleep-talks about things, fidgets us (she has a thing about rubbing/rolling my neck skin and we have struggles over this), and all around interrupts everyone's sleep, including her own.

We were co-sleeping up until about a month ago, when we got her own bed in the adjoining bedroom (direct open door between rooms) The sleep issues were present while co-sleeping and partly motivated getting her into her own bed, hoping to give us a little more peace. We also weaned around the same time, pretty peacefully. My unexpected pregnancy played into this, though we were on the way already. She has attended full day Montessori since she was about 20 months, and LOVES school. She's very bright, and very verbal since her language explosion right around 2 years. I suspect in part her brain just doesn't slow down!

She hasn't napped much for over a year, but as a result, she instead goes to bed between 6 and 7, and "sleeps" for 12 hours. When she was a napper, it took a lot of effort to get her there. She's always been far more likely to nap ON one of us than alone, except perhaps in the car seat, when she'll happily pass out on drives.

At night, whether in her bed or ours, we've read stories, sang, held hands, etc to get her to sleep, and then left her while DH and I get a few hours of adult evening time. So she's used to being in a bed alone.

Lately she's been waking more during our "adult hours," whereas she used to sleep through that, and in her new bed she will often wake around 2-3am,sometimes to potty (which is fine) but sometimes to get one of us to come sleep with her. Note: she specifically chooses for us to come to HER bed over coming into OURS. Once someone is in bed with her, she doesn't sleep solidly for those remaining 4 hours, with all the fidgety flippy talking issues happening, making for an exhausted parent...whomever falls on the grenade for that night.

DH and I are really, really tired, and feeling very stressed at the prospect of having a newborn with expected sleep interruption piled on top of our rough sleeping older child.

Any reassurance or advice you might offer would be deeply appreciated.
post #2 of 22
I'm just guessing here, but is it possible that your pregnancy is what is creating this change in her? She may sense (directly or indirectly) the changes that are on their way and have already begun. I'm certainly not trying to fault you in any way, but since the pregnancy was unexpected I'm wondering if she is just picking up on the vibe around the house.
post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mckennasmomma View Post
I'm just guessing here, but is it possible that your pregnancy is what is creating this change in her? She may sense (directly or indirectly) the changes that are on their way and have already begun. I'm certainly not trying to fault you in any way, but since the pregnancy was unexpected I'm wondering if she is just picking up on the vibe around the house.
No, all of this was happening before I was pregnant, and before the weaning/bed changes. I'm not quite 14 weeks, and this has been this way for a good 4-6 months.
post #4 of 22
My daughter will be 4 in two weeks and she might have had 2 nights of uninterrupted sleep. Yes, it's getting old. I think her brother was sleeping through the night at this age pretty consistently ( I don't mind the children coming to our bed occasionally), but every night?
The thing with my daughter is that she usually comes, might blab about something for a couple seconds (dream fragments, maybe?) and usually does fall back asleep pretty easily. But her increasing size, my own increasing size, I just find I'm not getting the rest I need. Not to mention the "it's morning!" announcement just when I'm settling into a nice, deep sleep...
So I guess not so much advice, but support. I have this hope that one night she will miraculously outgrow it and sleep through the night ever since... one can hope.
post #5 of 22
Have you considered food allergies/intolerances?
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese's Mommy View Post
Have you considered food allergies/intolerances?
I was just about to say this... I know that DS had not STTN until we stopped wheat and dairy with him. He was restless, up multiple times, and would wake up screaming at times. We also jsut moved him to his own bed. Unknowingly we had some gluten and dairy at a restaraunt and he is still struggling with sleeping almost 10 days later. I hope that it gets better. I know how hard it is.
post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese's Mommy View Post
Have you considered food allergies/intolerances?
Are you saying this could be directly connected to nightwaking? My DS is 26 months and a crappy sleeper with no other obvious symptoms, so I never thought to consider his diet further (we are dairy-free as it causes him eczema). What would you suggest?
post #8 of 22
quick post...
my dd was the same way, horrible sleeper, night terrors, etc. etc. tried lots of things...chiropractic (which we still do anyway), craniosacral therapy...the only thing that worked was homeopathy at age 34 months. within 2 doses, and after i was treated first for issues that were likely not helping the situation, she was sleeping through the night about 9 out of 10 nights, had weaned herself, and started sleeping in her own bed, all very peacefully. the nights she did wake up were quick wake-ups, and easy getting back to sleep. this lasted for 8 mths until dd2 was born, but we're getting back to normal again.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkfum View Post
quick post...
my dd was the same way, horrible sleeper, night terrors, etc. etc. tried lots of things...chiropractic (which we still do anyway), craniosacral therapy...the only thing that worked was homeopathy at age 34 months. within 2 doses, and after i was treated first for issues that were likely not helping the situation, she was sleeping through the night about 9 out of 10 nights, had weaned herself, and started sleeping in her own bed, all very peacefully. the nights she did wake up were quick wake-ups, and easy getting back to sleep. this lasted for 8 mths until dd2 was born, but we're getting back to normal again.
Hmmm....I'd been talking to an ND friend about trying homeopathy. I know every treatment is a little different, but if you can share any more about what direction you approached the homeopathy from I'd appreciate it. This resonate with me as the best option to try right now. Thanks.
post #10 of 22
What do you feed a baby that isn't dairy or wheat? Just curious. Probably should go in another place. My 12mo isn't sleeping too well either.
post #11 of 22
Thread Starter 
Bumping to see if the posters who have answers to the questions come back.

Update: I'm seeing our ND today to look into homeopathy. Curious how long it might take to see an effect.
post #12 of 22

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Edited by GoestoShow - 1/6/11 at 8:34am
post #13 of 22
My ds is only 13 months so I don't have any advice but would love to get an update on your homeopathy trial.

Also, a couple of thoughts. I remember a poster saying they were going to try explaining to their dc (about 3 y.o. I think) how to fall asleep. Is that an option? It sounds like she's very verbal and intelligent. I believe the poster asked their dc "would you like me to teach you how to fall back asleep" and their dc said yes. They then explained about closing eyes and trying to relax etc.

Finally, I didn't sttn until I was FIVE. Yikes! I wish I could say why but even now I'm a terrible sleeper and find it hard to fall asleep. I suspect even at 5 I was waking up, I just didn't need mama's help anymore to get back to sleep.
post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Update for those following this:

After a long talk with my ND, we decided to try flower essences before going the whole homeopathic formula route. She gave us a combination of Chapparal, White Chestnut, Aquamarine, and Tidal Forces. We started using them 2-3 times a day, just a couple of drops, about a week ago.

The first night was one of the strangest in a very long time. It seemed almost like DD was purging a whole mess of emotional stress, though my ND felt this would be a very unusual response to flower essences. She woke at about 8 after being asleep for about an hour and proceeded to cry inconsolably for nearly two hours, going from topic to topic about things she was upset about and struggling with trying to hug me without doing the painful neck pinching thing that I can't tolerate. She finally calmed down and slept ok from almost 11 to 6. The next couple of nights weren't very different, but the last few nights have been markedly different. She has stopped the frequent wakings early in the night, and in addition, she's started napping at school! She hasn't been a consistent napper for nearly a year! She might wake once in the night, but when we've gone in to sleep with her (middle of the night, maybe 1-2am?) she's then slept peacefully the rest of the night! Normally she seems very stressed and like she's arguing things when she talks in her sleep....last night she called out "I did it! I did it!" instead! DH and I were giggling madly to hear it, and both agreed it was the first time she seemed to vocalize something clearly positive. So, as much as I can't quite believe it, I have to think the flower essences have had a beneficial effect!
post #15 of 22
That's great! Thanks for the update!
post #16 of 22
For those of us who don't believe in homeopathy... did you change how you reacted to her when she woke up that first night? You said she cried for 2 hours. Did you let her get it out this time vs trying to stop her crying?
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_McG View Post
For those of us who don't believe in homeopathy... did you change how you reacted to her when she woke up that first night? You said she cried for 2 hours. Did you let her get it out this time vs trying to stop her crying?
LOL, just so you know, I'm Western medicine trained and this is the first time I've tried something like this other than maybe the Hyland's Teething Tablets. "My ND" is a friend and neighbor, who is a new practitioner and happens to be an interesting resource.

We don't try to "stop" her from crying, and don't freak out when she does cry, and are fine even telling her "it's ok to cry, go ahead and get it out" if it seems that she's just having a need for release while we hold her. She's been a child who didn't cry a lot from the beginning, so we have picked up on needing to help assure her that it's safe and acceptable to let out her emotional buildup if she needs to.

Usually when she cries out in the night, we go to her, ask what she needs, she tells us (potty, water, hugs, someone to sleep with her, something was scary, etc) and she is satisfied and doesn't continue to cry and fuss, and instead settles right back down. This time, she didn't have a specific request, she just was very agitated and kept changing subjects of what she was crying about (wanted to go downstairs...we explained it was barely the beginning of the night...she claimed it wasn't dark....we offered to show her it was dark...she began to say "no, don't show me"...and so on).

So while I see the logic you're following in trying to find an alternative explanation for her change in behaviors, no, I don't believe we had altered our patterns or responses to her.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSheepPDX View Post
It seemed almost like DD was purging a whole mess of emotional stress, though my ND felt this would be a very unusual response to flower essences.
I'm really surprised your ND thinks this is unusual. I've allways found this to be the effect (in various forms but some sort of an emotional release) with flower remedies.
Glad it seems to work for your DD
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by XyMama View Post
Are you saying this could be directly connected to nightwaking? My DS is 26 months and a crappy sleeper with no other obvious symptoms, so I never thought to consider his diet further (we are dairy-free as it causes him eczema). What would you suggest?
Yes, I am saying that. Are you still nursing your DS? What you are eating could be affecting him as well. Since you already know he has a problem with dairy I would suspect food as the cause of the bad sleep patterns. You could try keeping a food journal. Also, there may be other outward signs that you don't notice. My dd had eczema that was obvious, but then she also had eczema that I didn't realize was eczema until it went away after my elimination diet. You can get a lot of info on the allergy board.
post #20 of 22
I posted a post very similar to this one, and I am very curious about the homeopathy. We had an allergy/sensitivity panel done, and DD has no known sensitivities to food or allergies. So I would love to hear more about the homeopathy, anything to bring her some peace.
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