Would you tell your friend she has no chance at the birth she wants? UPDATE! posts 35 & 36 & 41 - Page 2

[claddaghmom]

Wow, same friend? lol

I heard the same things filter through whenever my friend mentioned her OB. Not as heinous as yours, but still, you could "hear" it. (E.g. she excitedly told me that her hospital allows rooming in! And her OB agreed to it! Woohoo! )

She lucked out big time. OB was on a vacation and she got a natural nurse who advised against an epidural.

So pray that her OB is on vacation I guess...

ETA: I think the difficulty here is that these particular women are really intelligent. This is the most intelligent friend I've bumped into in awhile. She didn't make changes (like S&D vax, ebfing, eclusive bfing, no circ etc) out of fear. She learned about the issues quickly and made the logical choice. BUT I think over this span of 9 months, they make SO MANY changes, that their world becomes topsy turvy. It's scary to change everything. To find out that everything you were doing just b/c someone told you to, is potentially harmful to your infant or yourself. Anyways, it seems that they hold onto the last thing: the OB/hospital. They want to trust him and remain loyal to him. As if to consider other options would betray him.

[myfairbabies]

Thanks everyone! I've contacted a few people and posted looking for doulas, so hopefully I'll find someone that would work with them. I also called her today and offered to watch the little girl she nanny's so she can go to her appt with the ob and talk about the birth plan (no kids allowed b/c of h1n1). I mentioned the midwife group, where they are located and how she could talk with them for free just to get a feel for them and see what she thinks. She wants to come over and use my sewing machine sometime soon, so maybe then we could have a good talk.

She is intelligent and makes good decisions when she has time to think it through and research and everything. So it does make it hard when she seems to be holding onto something I really don't think she wants!

Does anyone know a good place I could get BOBB fast? I know netflix has it, but they don't have the internet to download it, and I'm not sure it would come in the mail fast enough if I signed up. I would like to have a copy anway.

[elanorh]

There are good suggestions here. All I would add (or elaborate on) is that if she does decide she trusts this OB and wants to stick with him, she should:

A. Wait as long as possible before going to the hospital (OB and staff have less time to interfere, intervene - and who knows, maybe her OB won't make it and she'll get a better fit?).

B. Plan how she/her husband will react if the doctor tries to do things that don't follow the birth plan. The pp who mentioned the doctor-husband who was 'firm and bossy,' and that would probably need to be the role that the dh will need to take. So - what will they do if the doctor tries to insist she use EFM? What if the doctor wants to break her waters? What if the doctor tries to cut an episiotomy? What if the doctor wants her to .....???? And especially in re: the episiotomy, the husband needs to feel comfortable with the information (if he's the one who's going to be talking at that point, which is likely since many mothers are rather busy at what point the doctor is thinking about an episiotomy). So when the OB starts to say that the cut is better than a rip, etc., dh needs to feel confident to say, "We still prefer to tear naturally." [and then if she does tear, she should insist on a local numbing agent when he stitches her up].

If I were you, I'd start the conversation with the same line that you ended your OP with. "I had a traumatic first birth which I regret. I wish someone had talked more openly with me ahead of time. I know that we've talked about this, and you can take or leave what I say next, but I want you to have a birth that you look back on with joy - and I think you're most likely to feel that way about your birth, if you find a different HCP. [blah, blah]. And if you don't feel you can switch, can you get a doula [blah, blah]? And I'd suggest that you do [x, y, z] to make it less likely that your OB will try to do interventions you don't want.

If she does go with this OB, you don't want her to go in super-tense and have that affect her body's labor.

All that said - one of my sisters, for her first birth, had what I would consider an awful experience (it didn't end in a c/s but came within about 20 minutes of it, per her OB's 'deadline.'). It involved an induction following spontaneous ROM, they gave her only 3 hours to go into labor on her own, then gave pit and upped it every half hour without stopping. After 4 hours, she was 'only' at 3 1/2 cm, the OB told her she would probably have a c/s if she didn't make significant progress within the next half hour. Half an hour later, she was 10cm and pushing (thank goodness). Her OB cut a giant episiotomy, told her that she "had to."

All that said - my sister still thinks it was a wonderful birth, she's very proud that she did it without pain meds at all (as she should be especially the way they cranked her through it), and she thinks despite my input, that the episiotomy was necessary and "everybody gets them." She's due this summer again and I'm praying she gets a different OB from her practice this time (she did say she never liked that particular OB, but she was the one on call that weekend).

So -- it's possible that your friend could come through this birth with her OB feeling like she did great. And maybe more confident to make changes with a subsequent birth, given continued positive support from you.

[starkyld]

Would you consider printing out this thread and giving her a copy so that she can read about your concerns and everyone's responses? I can see that as being very awkward in some friendships and a great communication tool in others, so it really depends on what your friendship with her is like and on her personality in general, but I thought it would be worth a suggestion....

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by myfairbabies

Does anyone know a good place I could get BOBB fast? I know netflix has it, but they don't have the internet to download it, and I'm not sure it would come in the mail fast enough if I signed up. I would like to have a copy anway.

If you sign up for netflix today, the movie will probably be there tomorrow. It's crazy fast. You can do the single movie plan for like $5, then cancel after you return the movie.

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by myfairbabies

when she told him she didn't want an episiotomy, he said that he would "try" but that they probably wouldn't be able to avoid it because most women need one.

WHOAA!


I would lend her "Thinking Woman's Guide" & just suggest she read the chapter on epis. That alone for me is reason to run for the hills. If he thinks "Most Moms' need one" he is CLUELESS! And he's only doing things PROVEN to be HARMFUL to Moms. Period.

That, to me, is the easiest way to attack this guy & convince her she needs to not birth with him. Thankfully, switching to the hospital-MWs should be easy enough.

I would focus on empathizing with her on how tough it will be to switch so late in the game. (I.e. "of course you're going to switch..."

This, to me, is NOT just about NCB vs. epidural vaginal birth. Someone who thinks epis is necessary is really, actively, harming women. She needs to not birth with him... IMO. I would NOT focus on "I know you want an NCB" since, she can probably still get an epidural even with the MWs, but overall care less damaging.

[luv-my-boys]

Originally Posted by Romana

I think that the most important and determinative factor in whether a woman gets a desired NCB is who her HCP is. !

Very well said...and it isnt always a midwife. I have had a OB at all my deliveries and they have been WAY more supportive than any of the midwives I had met. But I purposely sought out HCP that similar viewpoints and respected my wishes on what I wanted.

I think if they have a "plan" i think it would be good that they discuss it with their HCP and get their "take" on it. It might be there that she realizes that they will/will not support the decisions that they have made. i think also its important to let her know that people change HCP even late in the game, I knwo that once your coming to the home stretch that it can be overwhelming or even intimidating thinking about changing practicioners.

[Poodge]

Originally Posted by mambera

That's interesting... What struck you differently the second time around?

The first time I watched it I was just focused on why would you decide on natural childbirth. I knew why I wanted to birth with out drugs, but had no clue about all the other interventions, ect. I showed it to my DH to win him over on the without drugs aspects it covered. He thought I was nuts and then he got it after watching it. I just missed the whole point of hospitals are full of interventions and how wonderful homebirth could be point, because I wasn't looking for that, I was looking for back-up to my stance about wanting to birth without drugs.

The second time I watched after I had my hospital birth full of interventions and I kind of just got it. To get the birth I want I will need to plan a home birth.

[Galatea]

I had a friend like this - she was having twins and she wanted a natural birth and to breastfeed. I asked her, "How important is it to you?" and she said, "Very." So I told her what would likely happen with her current OB (scheduled section, babies would not get to nurse right away and would have a hard time latching, she'd be too tired and in too much pain to try, someone would give them a bottle, and nursing would fail.) I also bought her a good pregnancy book for multiples and then left it at that. She never changed doctors and when I saw her after they were born, she said, "It happened exactly like you said and I can't nurse them and I am so sorry for it all." So, long story short, I would be completely blunt and to the point, and then let go of what she does after that. Some people need to learn the hard way, unfortunately.

[myfairbabies]

I have a long list of free doulas (thanks for that idea!), bobb in my mailbox, and friend coming over to sew on monday! I think printing this thread would be awkward, but I am definitely taking notes to include in our talk. I definitely want to mention that she can still get an epidural with a midwife if she wants (maybe she's worried about this?), why doulas are so awesome, and that I just want her to be happy. Then I will let go and hope she is satisfied with whatever the outcome. Wish me luck!

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by Galatea

I asked her, "How important is it to you?" and she said, "Very."

That's a great way to approach it. Alternatively she might have said something like "it would be great if I can do it" and you'll know she's just hoping and not really committed to it. If she says "Very" or something strong like that, then be blunt. If not so committed, just say "I really hope it works out for you" and leave it at that.

[listipton]

[QUOTE=myfairbabies;15051031]

Does anyone know a good place I could get BOBB fast? QUOTE]

Did you check the library?

[Marlet]

Originally Posted by myfairbabies

I just don't want to see them get hurt, because I had a traumatic birth. What do you think? Shut my mouth?

No. Don't project on them. You didn't use this dr. so you really don't KNOW she won't get the birth she wants. There are so many variables (i.e. baby comes too fast and it's born at home, dr. isn't able to make it and she gets someone else, they travel and baby comes in that area as opposed to home etc.) and I think, if I were your friend, I'd be rather pissed if you told me I wouldn't get the birth I'm planning on just because you had a traumatic birth. Instead, I'd assume she was a mature adult who realized that she may not get the birth she wants and continue to encourage her on staying positive. She's close enough to being done she doesn't need your birth experience influencing her mindset. Talking about and acknolweding the potential changes to her birth plan is one thing but telling her that you KNOW she has NO CHANCE of getting the birth she's planning for is just rude and uncalled for.

HTH!

[Breathless Wonder]

Originally Posted by emnic77

How utterly ridiculous..."won't let you deliver"...okay, as if you can stop that or she needs your permission, dude. Good luck with that!

Unfortunately, there are some doctors (and nurses) who literally will HOLD the baby in.

Happened to a woman I know. They have it on camera. They were damn lucky the baby was unharmed. The doctor wasn't in the room, and the nurse insisted the doctor had to be there, and held the baby in the birth canal until the doctor crossed the threshold. Unfortunately, mom had opted for an epidural, which made it difficult for her to fight.

[GreenMamma]

I think this story needs to be updated...I was the doula to the OP's friend and she was one of the most amazing birthers I have ever seen. She has left me in complete and utter awe. She is strong, amazing, and birthed in a way that was so very raw and real. She was absolutely captivating. I hope the OP will take the time to come back and post because it would only be right to let you all know about the beautiful unmedicated birth her friend experienced. Absolutely beautiful!

[myfairbabies]

Yes! I don't have any details (my dd is super sick so we can't visit, and I know they wanted some private time with baby and no one bothering them so I haven't called) but my friend sent me a brief email that said she couldn't have done it without my help, so I am so glad I posted this thread! I never would have found her the doula (please, GreenMamma, fill us in!) which I am sure helped a ton, among a few other resources and ideas I made available to her. I decided not to go the route of telling her that she should switch docs because she said she liked him, just other things she could do to make it happen. She asks lots of questions too, so I didn't feel like I was pushing anything (like I said, I never mentioned it before because I knew she wanted an epidural and I'm not out to push my ideas on people). I can't believe that just a few weeks ago she was planning a medicated birth. I cried when her dh told me that she did it, and after 36 hours! Thanks for all your help! Oh, and she has a beautiful little girl!

[myfairbabies]

Originally Posted by Marlet

No. Don't project on them. You didn't use this dr. so you really don't KNOW she won't get the birth she wants. There are so many variables (i.e. baby comes too fast and it's born at home, dr. isn't able to make it and she gets someone else, they travel and baby comes in that area as opposed to home etc.) and I think, if I were your friend, I'd be rather pissed if you told me I wouldn't get the birth I'm planning on just because you had a traumatic birth. Instead, I'd assume she was a mature adult who realized that she may not get the birth she wants and continue to encourage her on staying positive. She's close enough to being done she doesn't need your birth experience influencing her mindset. Talking about and acknolweding the potential changes to her birth plan is one thing but telling her that you KNOW she has NO CHANCE of getting the birth she's planning for is just rude and uncalled for.

HTH!

I guess I shouldn't have put it like that, I was just pretty upset by that epi comment from her OB and started imagining everything else he must think based on all the horror stories I've heard from people (nothing about my situation would have applied to her in any way, and so I never brought it up). I would never actually say that to someone, and I hope my intentions came across in everything else I said in this thread.

[Belle]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

She lucked out big time. OB was on a vacation and she got a natural nurse who advised against an epidural.

So pray that her OB is on vacation I guess...

This happened to me. I was in your friends shoes. At the end of my first pregnancy I realized that I wasn't going to get the birth I wanted from the OB that I hired. At 37 weeks he wanted me to schedule an induction at 39+6 because he would be on vacation the week before my due date and my due date fell on a three day weekend. I passed on that and left the office vowing that next time would be different But I wasn't comfortable transfering at the time. I had my baby at 38+4 while my doctor was out of town. It was the best thing that could have happend to me. I got super nurses and the on call OB didn't interfere too much.

My next baby was born at home. I didn't want to push my luck a second time.

[Belle]

Awesome! I'm glad she had a great birth experience. Congrats to her for her new daughter.

[nerdymom]

I'm subbing b/c I really want to hear this birth story!!