We're all in desparate need of sleep!... long, but please read b/c I'm in need of some serious help

[shanniesue2]

DS will be two in a couple of weeks. Just after Thanksgiving, we started nightweaning (he was nursing basically all night long and I couldn't/can't sleep through it any more). We followed the NCSS for toddlers book. But the sleep situation in our house is still very rough going. I tried the whole "put him to bed earlier" thing and it didn't work. at. all. It doesn't matter if we start our bedtime routine at 6:00, 6:30, or 7:00. The child will not fall asleep until 8. And it doesn't matter when lights out is. So the earlier we turn the lights out, the longer we lay there with him waiting for him to fall asleep (which is really annoying). My next idea is to start the routine at 7 and just not turn the lights completely out (we do dimmed lighting during the bed time routine) until 7:45. Anyway, when we put him to bed, DH started sleeping with him (in DS's bed) b/c if DH doesn't sleep with him then DS wakes up at 11:30 very anxious. He will wander through the house to our garage door and bang on it crying "mommy daddy" (he doesn't even try our room). Anyway, if DH is with him, he will sleep through that first waking. But then he usually wakes up demanding me (and he will really work himself up) at about 1:30 and DH brings him into our bed. For the first 6 weeks of nightweaning, he would usually just snuggle up to me and go right back to sleep. But now he is wanting to nurse and gets really upset when I don't let him (I tell him, "nurse is asleep until 5:00. Goodnight nurse, see you in the morning") So then he fusses for 30-45 minutes before falling back to sleep. Then he wakes up again at about 3:30 and wants to nurse. I give him the "nurse is asleep." line again, but this time, it usually takes him an hour and a half to fall back to sleep. And he's just messing with me the whole time. Last night he kept tugging on my hair. over and over. for 90 minutes. I did everything I could think of (short of putting him back in his room to CIO or spanking) to get him to stop. If its not pulling my hair, then he spends that time trying to tweak my nipple. Which brings me to another point. I have become his lovey. Or rather, my nipples have become his lovey. At first, I thought that letting him hold my boob would be a good way to wean him from nursing to sleep. But I think that was a mistake... because the tweaking is way worse... and he seems more insistent about it. So now we're working on the tweaking. And I think that where the hair pulling is coming from... it's like his free hand (he sucks his fingers) has to be messing with me in one form or another. I'm going completely nuts. If I didn't have to get up and go to work, then I think I could cope better... but SAHM is not an option for us right now. And I feel guilty b/c I'm not doing as good a job at work as I should/could be doing (I'm a teacher). So I half-ass it during the day in order to have enough energy to make it through the evening. When I do everything the way I should at work, then I come home with no energy for my family. I NEED TO BE GETTING BETTER SLEEP. And so does everyone else in my house. There's no way that 7 hours at night is anywhere near what DS needs to be getting. And DH's sleep schedule is getting messed up, too (he falls asleep at 7-7:30 PM and then is awake at about 3 AM). Something needs to change. There has GOT to be some balance between CIO and night time trauma and loss of my sanity due to chronic sleep deprivation.

We have tried letting DH handle the night time waking, but DS just winds himself up... and will cry for hours. It's traumatic and miserable for everyone. I also recently tried giving him a snack at about 7:20... thinking maybe he was waking up at 3:30 b/c he was hungry. But that didn't help either.

HELP!

[mckennasmomma]

Oh that sounds so hard. I totally understand. I have very little advice, but one thought is this: what if you weren't trying to nightwean 100%? What if you continued your routine (asleep by 8 with dad) then "allow" one other nursing (maybe at the 1:30 waking)? Remember, it is your family, not dr gordon's or anyone else's, so if a compromise gets you more sleep (maybe not 9 straight hours, bu more than you are getting now) then it is working. I think it is confusing to babies to have a certain time frame that they aren't allowed to nurse within, without some other cue (like light/dark cues for example). The only other thing I can think of is to stick with it and have lots of patience, knowing that everything will pass eventually. The twiddling is super tough...have you tried just kissing his fingers, wearing a thick sweatshirt and tight fitting bra? I know this isn't a great response, but hopefully something in here will help.

[paulamc]

We have our own nighttime issues and so not a lot of advice here, but I just wanted to suggest a sleep bra with a thick nursing pad under a shirt that is not low cut. Mine are cotton velour from Swaddlebees. They're quite thick and so don't look particularly good under a knit top during the day, but on the other hand they're good for prevention of fondling - something I have been totally unable to tolerate because of recurrent yeast infections (though haven't had one of those in quite a while now).

[Violet2]

My personal philosophy is if they are that persistent about something, then they must need it.

However, that doesn't meant you can't night wean or that you can't get better sleep. You have options.

You can top him off right before bed with a good snack. Or do a bottle when your DH goes to sleep and dreamfeed him.

Also, you have not said anything about a lovey? He needs a lovey--that will helps. Sounds like you are the lovey.

V

[schreiberwriter]

Lots of challenges! And I get really upset when a kid keeps me up in the middle of the night when I have to work.

My son also would spend 45 minutes falling asleep NO MATTER when we put him to sleep. At around 3, I told him that to fall asleep he needed to close his eyes, lay still and relax. I still remind him of that. I don't know if that would have worked if I had tried it earlier as it's hard to know exactly what they understand. So hang in there, it will get easier for him to fall asleep.

Maybe a yogurt when he wakes up the first time will help. My son also needed this.

You are doing the right thing by having DH take over the night shift.

Perhaps try wearing him in the evening while you take care of household duties. An Ergo is perfect for that age--wear him on your back. Then he may get the touch from you that he needs.

If anything, take comfort that this is just a season and it will get easier.

[Punchy Kaby]

How is your son for nap times? What is his routine for those? I second the idea of a lovey, I would introduce it at nap times first. Perhaps for a short time you could nurse him at the 130 time, but make it in his room in a comfy chair?Also, have you considered food allergies or intolerances? His need for you at night may stem from discomfort. Check put the allergy forum to see what symptoms might look like.

Hang in there! It is tough not getting proper sleep (I am not up at 5 am as a matter of choice).

[shanniesue2]

as for the lovey. I tried giving him a stuffed bear... but he didn't want to have anything to do with it. I guess I'm not entirely sure how to introduce a lovey...or rather, how to replace a lovey with a different lovey (since I am his lovey at the moment).

As for his naps... he takes much better naps at daycare than he does here. At daycare, she puts him in a pack and play with some white noise and tells him to go to sleep. And she shuts the door (its an in home) and he sleeps for 2 -2 1/2 hours. I've tried that and it doesn't fly with me. On the weekends, when I start noticing that he's sleepy (usually about 12:30) I take him to bed, read a story and lay down with him. It usually takes about 15 minutes. And then he'll sleep for maybe an hour and a half... if I'm lucky. He always wakes up cranky.

[anaboa]

i have no advise, but i had to post. i am in the EXACT situation as you.
are we raising the same child? first thing i did this morning was log onto mothering and go to discussions. found your post. in an crappy way, it's nice to know someone else is going through and feeling the same way. i hope you find your solution soon

[junipermoon]

maybe 2-2 1/2 hrs is too long to nap at daycare. have you asked her to switch his naptime/reduce it? I would.

I would also *try* nursing one time/two times at night. keep one breast in your shirt so baby can't tweak nipple--and maybe hold a lovey that you want to introduce during that nursing time--to get the positive association going?

I am so sorry you are so exhausted. it sounds awfully hard. i do think the age is still quite attachment oriented--ie, in even just 3-6 months, it might be better, and in one or two years, it surely will be better, no matter what approach you take--bc he will sleep better as he gets older.

[Luke's mama]

sorry for your situation! I get so frustrated with DS, 21 mos, wanting to nurse a lot at night, but after some very weak attempts at not nursing him have decided to nurse on demand at night and hope that he will taper off soon!

Could your son be teething? I think those times are worse. What if your DH did not go to sleep at 7 (got up after baby was asleep), and then you nursed your son at the 11:30 waking? Maybe he would go longer if he nursed then, and your husband could get a better sleep schedule going?

What about offering a paci as a lovey or instead of nursing? You could use it just at night.

A lot of moms have posted in various forums that when their kids get lots of outdoor exercise, they sleep much better--is your ds getting enough physical exercise and outdoor time?

Good luck--I am sure this phase will pass.

[shanniesue2]

So this week... I'm starting to think growth spurt. He's been eating A LOT and then today, he took 2 naps at day care today (he was literally falling over he was so tired). Could still be a teething issues (he doesn't have canines or 2 year molars yet).

But anyway, last night was better (although one good night doesn't make a trend). Basically DH didn't stay with us during lights out--which means he didn't fall asleep. At about 9:30 so, DH went into to DS's room and slept with him. DS pretty much stayed asleep until 4:30, when DH brought him to our room. And DH stayed in bed until 5:00--at which point, I let DS nurse (sleeping later isn't an option with our work schedule).

Anyway, we're going to try to stick with this plan for a while a see how it goes.

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2

as for the lovey. I tried giving him a stuffed bear... but he didn't want to have anything to do with it. I guess I'm not entirely sure how to introduce a lovey...or rather, how to replace a lovey with a different lovey (since I am his lovey at the moment).

As for his naps... he takes much better naps at daycare than he does here. At daycare, she puts him in a pack and play with some white noise and tells him to go to sleep. And she shuts the door (its an in home) and he sleeps for 2 -2 1/2 hours. I've tried that and it doesn't fly with me. On the weekends, when I start noticing that he's sleepy (usually about 12:30) I take him to bed, read a story and lay down with him. It usually takes about 15 minutes. And then he'll sleep for maybe an hour and a half... if I'm lucky. He always wakes up cranky.

I'd ask your babysitter exactly what she has done for nap times and try what she does.

For the lovey, we have something that is like a small blankie with a small stuffed giraffe head. DD rubs it against her face (our DS did this with his too.) MOre important is the smell, put it in bed with you so it smells like you. Just leave it in his bed (send it to daycare)he will reach for it on his own, you can't force an attachment.

Congrats on having a better night, hope it sticks!