What is going on here?

[Anastasiya]

Let me preface this by saying that my kids have never done this, and my sister's kids have never done this, so I'm at a loss here.

Lately, our very good friends' daughter has just started being aggressive and they don't know why. She's two. She's an only child so far. She has very soft spoken, gentle parents.

For instance, she and my 2.5 year old hugged goodbye the other day - normally they get along wonderfully - and after the hug she slapped him. (VERY HARD).

While I was reading a book to the kids (her included), she kept trying to scratch my DS' leg. She succeeded once, so I was on the lookout, but she would put her hand on his shin, glare at him and start to dig her nails in to scratch him. She did this over and over 6 times. (I was able to deter her the last 5).

She was playing nicely with our dd and then just decided to whack her on the head with a toy.

She pushes my almost-one-year-old over purposefully and pulls his hair, then in that same instant picks him back up and hugs him.

WHY????

This all goes on in plain sight of us or her parents, and it always happens completely out of the blue. There is no argument or altercation before...it just goes from nice play to aggression.

We're all at a loss as to why she is doing this. I can't offer any advice because my kids were never that way, and while we LOVE these people and this little girl, it does concern me how aggressive she can be so quickly and over and over again.... is there a solution?

I'm not kidding when I say that it seems like every 10 minutes someone is being hurt by her, and my kids really don't want to be around her anymore.

Problem is, WE love her and WE love her parents!!!

Any thoughts?

[elmh23]

I have a friend who's daughter does this. She'd be playing all nicely and then decide to gouge my son's eyes out (literally, it was bad!) She has some sensory issues and they think that she doesn't feel pain as easily as "normal" children and that she is experimenting. They also think that when she's angry she just doesn't know how to get the words out and so she lashes out, even if there has been nothing that seems should have upset her.

She receives art therapy and hippo therapy to help her get control of her emotions and her body. It's been helping for the most part.

That said, when we see these friends, we keep an eye on them. My dd is bigger and older than her and A (the little girl) hasn't attacked her in a very long time, so we let those two go in another room and play. But if the boys are in the room (my ds and A's little brother) then we're right on top of it. It does take two parents right on top of the situation with A to keep everyone safe. As a result, we don't get together as much as we'd like. A's mom has another child, an infant, and I'm due really soon, so it's just exhausting having to supervise as much as is needed.

[Tjej]

It sounds like she just isn't getting the message that she is:

hurting someone or

needs to stop.

What happens when she does these things? Is there a very consistent reaction?

I know my DS is a thrower/dropper. That is (and has been since birth) his first reaction to anything in his hands. I have had to be very very consistent in modeling different behavior and reinforcing gentleness with others. He thinks - THROW. I have him pat gently and say "gentle" (and make him say it to me, at eye level). And if he did it one time he got a warning, again and it was done - he did not have the opportunity to do it again. Now that he is 2 and knows the expectations I don't always let him have a second chance right away (for instance, if he throws his motorcycle we put it up for a bit).

I have found with my DS that if I am VERY consistent and do NOT put up with even a "almost throw" it all gets much better and he will play so much more nicely. He isn't a danger to others anymore like he was. I still watch, but not like I used to have to. So I'd think that if she is hurting someone she should say "gentle" (and "sorry", but I know some people here disagree with forced apologies) and be removed from the possibility of touching/hurting anyone for a decent period of time (5-10 minutes). That'd mean separate activities, not that she couldn't play, but that the victim would be safe.

HTH

Tjej

[Anastasiya]

I don't know what they do, really, because I'm comforting my own kids and don't see what her parents are saying to her - they usually pull her aside somewhere and talk to her in private.

I don't know about sensory issues. She does talk a lot and I don't know if she's trying to verbalize things, but then again these aren't really issues where's she's getting upset and tries to remedy it by hitting someone or something. It's just like she's happily playing and then BANG! she hits someone over the head with the remote. Or she sees the baby walking, gets excited, then in the same moment puts on an angry face, pushes him down, pulls his hair, then in the same moment again picks him up and cuddles him.

I don't know. I am so confused. And sad, too.

[Anastasiya]

You know, I really expected that more people would have some ideas as to what may be going on - seen it in their own kids or other kids - and this *silence* is disconcerting.

Do most agree that it's outside the realm of what is normal toddler behavior?

[sapphire_chan]

So your kids and your sister's kids didn't go through that? Awesome, that means that it doesn't happen to all kids and there's a chance : that I won't have to deal with that phase!

[swd12422]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

You know, I really expected that more people would have some ideas as to what may be going on - seen it in their own kids or other kids - and this *silence* is disconcerting.

Do most agree that it's outside the realm of what is normal toddler behavior?

In some ways, I hope most agree that it's NOT outside the realm of normal, b/c DS is the same way, but he hits and kicks, and throws things at people with no anger at all. It's to get a reaction, I think.... I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get him to stop, and I'm starting to have some really terrible reactions to the hitting when it gets bad.

I'm hoping more moms will chime in here soon with something more helpful than, "It's normal. It'll pass."

[sapphire_chan]

Ask over in GD, this is definitely a normal thing, but you'll get better help from people who make a hobby of analyzing kid behavior and who've already gone through it.

It'd be helpful if her parents are interested in a solution and would be willing to answer questions you pass on.

I've encountered kids of gentle (an MDC mama!) and ungentle ( hitting him isn't going to teach him not to hit) parents who have gone through this same phase, so odds are it isn't caused by parenting style.

Honestly, I'd just avoid play dates in her home territory until she's past the phase. Stick with places with toys that don't belong to anyone in particular with enough for everyone to have one, make sure there's an adult available to pay attention to each child, and switch off which adult is giving which child individual attention.

The thing you want to convey is "you will still be able to play with toys even if another child has a toy" and "you will still be able to get adult attention even if another child has the attention of one of the adults"


Also, watch for "smiles" where lots of teeth show. If the front teeth are all visible (upper incisors touching lower incisors) you might as well tell them right then "do you want to touch the baby?" and help them do it gently. My niece reached to pinch Lina twice and got waylaid before she could even start about 15 more times in one visit at that age.

[ckumelos]

Phychology isn't a simple "why is this happening" most of the time. There are a lot of factors involved that none of us know anything about.

My sister was one of these violent hitting children. Now in later years she has had therapy and has discovered that the reason she thinks she did it was because she would get attention that way. She always wanted to be the center of attention and that was the best way to achieve the goal the fastest way. Now the reason she wanted to be the center of attention was that she felt that our parents loved me more, so she thought if the attention was not on me they would start to love me less. Was this really the case 25 years ago?.... We will not know.

I think the GD forum is about dealing with the sometimes baffling behavior or young children without being aggressive. There are a number of GD methods for dealing with this type of behavior - consequences, appealing to child's sympathy, giving the child what it wants/needs, etc. Usually with time and using GD methods the behavior will be recognized as being "bad" behavior and will cease, or so the theory goes.

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by ckumelos

There are a number of GD methods for dealing with this type of behavior - consequences, appealing to child's sympathy, giving the child what it wants/needs, etc. Usually with time and using GD methods the behavior will be recognized as being "bad" behavior and will cease, or so the theory goes.

Consequences don't seem to work - and I doubt she could really grasp them at this age anyway. She's newly two.

Appealing to child's sympathy? Can you explain?

And giving the child what it wants/needs - well, at the time she wants to PLAY with the kids. She goes wild with excitement when she sees them and wants to be with them. She does NOT want to be taken away from play or be in her mom's arms....

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how I can help her mom help her daughter (because she asked what I thought and wanted my advice), and how I can still be friends with the mom while somehow making sure my kids aren't being beat up.

[claddaghmom]

There's too many possibilities....if you want the "this is normal" possibility here's my take:


They are learning around 2-4yrs that they can directly impact another person. So they might say, "Hmm, wonder what happens when I smack this kid."

I've seen my little sister doing this to my daughter. She just gets this idea in her eyes like, "hmmm, this person is smaller than me."

I think the behavior typically begins on the parents though. DD has tried a couple times. She gives out kisses but every 100th kiss or so will actually be a bite. And then she'll look thoughtful like, "hmm, interesting reaction."

My strategy is to show empathy and attention only to the victim. Even negative attention is attention you know. Big shows of hugs and talking only to the victim, maybe a special toy or treat and some lap time...yep that's guaranteed to get some woeful looks from the attacker lol.

[mamazee]

It is normal, but not all kids go through it. Some kids have a physical intensity, and at that age they haven't figured out how to hold themselves back. I would tell them what to do ("Be gentle") rather than what not to do ("don't hit") because the "don't" can be confusing or not understood by a toddler, in which case it sounds like "blah, hit". Even if they understand "don't", it still keeps that image and idea of hitting in their heads.

Also, I'd be the helicopter parent for a while to protect other kids and be very very consistent with the "gentle" talk.

I've seen it continue after toddlerhood, but only when parents didn't follow around and tell their kids to be gentle all the time. Some parents just ignore the whole thing or even laugh about it, and that doesn't seem to help. Some kids might just outgrow it without help, but it seems like some kids just keep being rough.

My daughter was a pusher for a bit during that age, and I did that and it was very short lived, though I don't know if it will be as short lived with all toddlers. Some are much more physical than she was.

[Luke's mama]

Here is a link that might be helpful:

http://www.authenticparent.com/articles11.html

It is by Naomi Aldort and hits on some thoughts I was having about your situation--it seems to me that a toddler that is acting THAT agressive has some needs that are not being met. She discusses this possiblility and refers you also to an article in her book about how to diffuse biting/hitting with play, which brings me to another book that I was thinking about recommending, Playful Parenting, which has some really interesting info about how to understand what kids are REALLY saying when they seem mean and rejecting and how to respond to their underlying needs.

In this article there are also some good ideas about how to respond in the moment to the aggressive behavior.