Layoff questions *updated in OP*

[kittywitty]

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Edited by kittywitty - 7/27/11 at 6:21pm

[ameliabedelia]

[QUOTE][Since he'll likely get "riffed" which means dropped just to part time pay which is less than min. wage here for teaching, he won't be eligible for unemployment. Right now, we are considering/QUOTE]

I would check on the unemployment. In my state, you can get unemployment if you are working part-time and making less than your weekly benefit rate.


I'm sorry your're facing this and hope it all works out for you.

[velochic]

Wow, I would wonder what recourse he has, first of all. If he's a professor, then he has tenure and they can't just "lay off" professors. I know this because my dh is a professor. Even if he's an associate or assistant professor surely he has a contract if he doesn't have tenure yet. How can they lay off a professor in the middle of the semester? If I were him. I'd fight it, for starters, because unless I am missing something, they can't just dismiss him. That's one of the advantages of being a professor.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Sorry I have no advice, I'm just flabbergasted that the university could even legally dismiss him mid-term. That'd be the path I'd explore... what his rights are to retain his job. Good luck!

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by velochic

Wow, I would wonder what recourse he has, first of all. If he's a professor, then he has tenure and they can't just "lay off" professors. I know this because my dh is a professor. Even if he's an associate or assistant professor surely he has a contract if he doesn't have tenure yet. How can they lay off a professor in the middle of the semester? If I were him. I'd fight it, for starters, because unless I am missing something, they can't just dismiss him. That's one of the advantages of being a professor.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Sorry I have no advice, I'm just flabbergasted that the university could even legally dismiss him mid-term. That'd be the path I'd explore... what his rights are to retain his job. Good luck!

He's not tenured yet. We just moved back here after them begging for him back. Just found out 24 other people are being fired, too. Or "riffed". He will have his job until May and the end of the semester and then he will be out his job. They may give him the option of teaching part time there, but he will literally (we added it up) make $9k a year working full time at part time pay, so that's not an option.

They can just dismiss him-it's community college, no tenure, and the college is completely bankrupt with Illinois not paying it's bills.

[leavemealone]

I would also look into unemployment for reduced work hours. I don't know the details, but it's worth looking into. The worst they can say is "no".

Is online teaching an option for your DH? I don't know about the opportunities, but it's worth looking into. It sounds like he teaches a specialized subject right now, but could he teach a more general subject? I'm just trying to think of ideas, but have no idea if any of them would work for you.

[ArtsyMomma]

Originally Posted by velochic

Wow, I would wonder what recourse he has, first of all. If he's a professor, then he has tenure and they can't just "lay off" professors. I know this because my dh is a professor. Even if he's an associate or assistant professor surely he has a contract if he doesn't have tenure yet. How can they lay off a professor in the middle of the semester? If I were him. I'd fight it, for starters, because unless I am missing something, they can't just dismiss him. That's one of the advantages of being a professor.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Sorry I have no advice, I'm just flabbergasted that the university could even legally dismiss him mid-term. That'd be the path I'd explore... what his rights are to retain his job. Good luck!

Yep. The procedure is (generally) to contact your union rep, have them get you a lawyer and file a grievance. Most of the time that is enough - showing that you are serious. You don't have to have tenure yet to file a grievance. You may have to go through an arbitration (which could potentially take years) but you would get back pay for all of that time. If he isn't working at the school, then he could pick up another job somewhere else during that time.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by sandcastle

I would also look into unemployment for reduced work hours. I don't know the details, but it's worth looking into. The worst they can say is "no".

Is online teaching an option for your DH? I don't know about the opportunities, but it's worth looking into. It sounds like he teaches a specialized subject right now, but could he teach a more general subject? I'm just trying to think of ideas, but have no idea if any of them would work for you.

He teaches chemistry which isn't really an option online without required lab time. He has a MS in Chem, so he can't teach other subjects. Most places require a PhD or Bio experience, which he doesn't really have, so jobs are hard to find.

The Union people, AFAIK can't do anything about this. Technically, the cc system he works for is illegal since the population is too low for there to legally be four community colleges in the 60 mile radius. So I think there's no real arbitration. The college has no money because of the state-therefore they can't pay the faculty. However, don't think that means they'd get rid of a single administration faculty or the 4 deans and entire building of administration for a college that serves a town of 8,000 people. Not to mention how much they waste on their sports programs. They have *60* baseball players on full scholarships for a team that's never won in a college that has like at most 500 students including online.

[ArtsyMomma]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

He's not tenured yet. We just moved back here after them begging for him back. Just found out 24 other people are being fired, too. Or "riffed". He will have his job until May and the end of the semester and then he will be out his job. They may give him the option of teaching part time there, but he will literally (we added it up) make $9k a year working full time at part time pay, so that's not an option.

They can just dismiss him-it's community college, no tenure, and the college is completely bankrupt with Illinois not paying it's bills.

Ahhh OK - then he isn't a professor (which is a titled/tenured position - may do a similar job, but a very different position). You can get tenure at a community college, it's not always easy though. He is a full time instructor or an adjunct. His contract only goes through the school year. He is basically considered a 'contract worker'. Which means when the contract is done there is no guarantee of continued employment - his contracts are semester by semester or year by year. Usually, this means you can not file for unemployment - it will get denied.

At our community college - if an adjunct, tech, lecturer, etc files for unemployment, there is almost no chance they will ever get another contract with the school. I've seen it happen more than once. That may be just our school - it may not happen everywhere. Since the school has to pay a portion of the unemployment, it doesn't go over well with the HR dept.

In the future - if your Dh wants to teach at a college level as a career - it would be a very wise move to make sure he is 'tenure tracked' before he takes a position at a college (it takes years to become a professor - it's not a job, it's more like a title you earn). There is more job stability and you usually have a union backing you.

I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. I'm a 'do-what-you-have-to-do' type person. I would explore all the options. If your Dh can get a tenure track position at another school - I'd cut my losses, try to sell the house and move with him. If he isn't hired at a university (I'd keep looking no matter what else came up) I'd suggest he take any position he can find, as he most likely will not receive any unemployment. Once a job is secured, I'd figure things out from there. Just worry about one thing at a time, but leave that tax credit in the bank for now.

[ArtsyMomma]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

He teaches chemistry which isn't really an option online without required lab time. He has a MS in Chem, so he can't teach other subjects. Most places require a PhD or Bio experience, which he doesn't really have, so jobs are hard to find.

The Union people, AFAIK can't do anything about this. Technically, the cc system he works for is illegal since the population is too low for there to legally be four community colleges in the 60 mile radius. So I think there's no real arbitration. The college has no money because of the state-therefore they can't pay the faculty. However, don't think that means they'd get rid of a single administration faculty or the 4 deans and entire building of administration for a college that serves a town of 8,000 people. Not to mention how much they waste on their sports programs. They have *60* baseball players on full scholarships for a team that's never won in a college that has like at most 500 students including online.

His employer is not a state community college? Is it more like a technical school then?

Is there a possibility he can take another job at another university - even lower paid - and finish his graduate degree? I know there are still schools out there that will pay for graduate level classes as long as you are an employee of the college and keep up your GPA and job requirements. It might be worth looking into.

Would it be possible for him to get a teaching license to teach at a high school level? Perhaps not in your school district, since they are doing layoffs - but maybe somewhere with a reasonable commute?

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by ArtsyMomma

His employer is not a state community college? Is it more like a technical school then?

Is there a possibility he can take another job at another university - even lower paid - and finish his graduate degree? I know there are still schools out there that will pay for graduate level classes as long as you are an employee of the college and keep up your GPA and job requirements. It might be worth looking into.

Would it be possible for him to get a teaching license to teach at a high school level? Perhaps not in your school district, since they are doing layoffs - but maybe somewhere with a reasonable commute?

It's a state community college and pays through the state retirement service. He's also tenure track already. We've always only chose tenure track positions for that reason. Well, was. In IL, I think it's run a little different than many states we've lived in. Confusing, sorry!

Most universities aren't hiring right now, and he'd have to have a PhD (dh has a M.S. in Chem with pharmaceutical and teaching experience) to get a job at one 95% of the time, anyway. I've checked almost all of them over the past 5 years of moving for jobs.

Nowhere in a decent commute is hiring-Illinois is in a severe deficit and can't pay the schools. And it'd take 2 years to get a teaching certificate here last time I checked (I considered it a few years ago).

[ArtsyMomma]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

It's a state community college and pays through the state retirement service. He's also tenure track already. We've always only chose tenure track positions for that reason. Well, was. In IL, I think it's run a little different than many states we've lived in. Confusing, sorry!

Most universities aren't hiring right now, and he'd have to have a PhD (dh has a M.S. in Chem with pharmaceutical and teaching experience) to get a job at one 95% of the time, anyway. I've checked almost all of them over the past 5 years of moving for jobs.

Nowhere in a decent commute is hiring-Illinois is in a severe deficit and can't pay the schools. And it'd take 2 years to get a teaching certificate here last time I checked (I considered it a few years ago).

He should probably check with the union again - maybe ask to talk to someone different. There are benefits to being tenure tracked - but maybe IL is different? It doesn't hurt to ask though (the squeaky wheel gets the grease!)

Even if he couldn't get a position as a teacher at a university - would he consider getting that PhD if he could work for a school in a different way (like admissions, FA). It might take time to find a school that would offer a PhD program AND have a position available (I currently have two friends doing this, although it took them both a while to find a place that fit - they are also single/childless, so that makes things easier). He could possibly get the PhD for free while working for the university for pay (albeit less than his current salary I'm sure)

My only suggestion, since the teaching opportunities are so limited/non-existant, is to keep looking for the TT positions (anywhere!) and do whatever you guys can to earn a living until then. I'd hold on to the tax credit for now. Better to owe on credit cards than to owe the IRS. Once you have everything figured out then you can put the money towards your debt or send it back.

[kittywitty]

The problem is the cc jumped up to a 26% interest rate and expires (and can't be renewed) early next year. So it has to be paid now. They're trying to get rid of that line of cards or something and we figured we could pay it off with the tax rebate. *sigh*

[Rosebud1]

The only thing I can think of is that many districts are so desperate for people to teach junior high/ high school math and science that they will hire people who are not certified but have degrees in that field. They enroll them in special certification 'fastrack' need based programs where they teach all day (and get paid for it) and take certification classes at night. I know the city of Chicago has programs like this.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

He's not tenured yet. We just moved back here after them begging for him back. Just found out 24 other people are being fired, too. Or "riffed". He will have his job until May and the end of the semester and then he will be out his job. They may give him the option of teaching part time there, but he will literally (we added it up) make $9k a year working full time at part time pay, so that's not an option.

They can just dismiss him-it's community college, no tenure, and the college is completely bankrupt with Illinois not paying it's bills.

ETA- nevermind, I read your next post and ArtsyMomma's after I posted this. He's an instructor without a PhD, so yeah, post-doc wouldn't work either.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by ArtsyMomma

Ahhh OK - then he isn't a professor (which is a titled/tenured position - may do a similar job, but a very different position). You can get tenure at a community college, it's not always easy though. He is a full time instructor or an adjunct.
...
In the future - if your Dh wants to teach at a college level as a career - it would be a very wise move to make sure he is 'tenure tracked' before he takes a position at a college (it takes years to become a professor - it's not a job, it's more like a title you earn). There is more job stability and you usually have a union backing you.

Yeah, it sounds like they fed him a line of baloney and now he is really getting screwed over. If he were a tenure-track professor, he'd have a rep that he could go to in order to arbitrate the contract, which is usually written to span several years (otherwise, it's not tenure-track, it's contract instructor, as ArtsyMomma says). The process is usually you are hired Assistant Professor and you have about 7 years to go up for tenure. If you have already been with a university for a while you can be hired in as Associate Professor (which is one level higher than Assistant and one level lower than Professor) and have about 4 years to go up for tenure. This is the general rule of thumb. During that time, they can't dismiss you or cancel your contract without cause. If tenure is denied they can renew the contract or not. It can take a decade to get tenure and 20 years or more to actually rise to the level of "Professor". To be a full professor, it is the apex of decades of work (my dh is 54, btw). Some academicians never get there.

It sounds like they told your dh that it was a tenure-track position and they lied about it... that he was hired as an instructor and told he was being hired as an assistant professor. That's dirty, IMHO. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I'd suggest that if your dh wants to stay in academia, to go back for his PhD, and then look for actual professorships with honest-to-goodness tracks to tenure. Otherwise, I'd go for Rosebud's idea and look to teach in high school. Good luck!

[EFmom]

Dh is a high school science teacher, and while teaching jobs in math and science are a bit easier to come by than in English or social studies, districts around here anyway really don't have any problem filling the positions with certified, experienced teachers. There are almost no emergency certification conditions for new hires these days where we are.

[ameliabedelia]

From everything I've read, your dh is going to have a very difficult time finding any kind of steady job teaching job in a college or university with only a Master's. I've never heard of ANY university offering any kind of tenure-track position to someone with only a M.S. At best. I've seen "instructor" positions which are only on a year-by-year or semester by semester basis. My dh has a M.A. in Spanish and trust me, we've looked into this. He would much prefer to teach college as well, it just isn't possible without the PhD. He ended up getting a job teaching first in a private (catholic) school (you don't need to be certified) and then getting certified based on his years of teaching experience and teaching public high school. (he is actally burnt out on teaching and looking at a career change and going back to school..but that is neither here nor there for you).

Really I think his best options are to really thing about what he wants to do, if he wants to teach at the college level, he needs the PhD. If he is willing to teach high school, he will need certification, (maybe taking classes at night or online). His other option, might be to enter industry.

[leavemealone]

ameliabedelia mentioned this at the end of her post, but I was also going to suggest looking into work at companies instead of teaching. it may not be what he wants to do, but would at least be able to bring in some money and work in his industry. Also, for some money on the side, would he be able to tutor chemistry (HS or college level)?

[kittywitty]

Sandcastle-tutoring around here: the schools do it and it's a very rural area.

Also, he used to work pharmaceuticals and we are trying to search out another job like that as a last resort. It's really terrible work to him-boring and largely unethical.

There is no problem with having a M.S. and teaching at a community college. Very hard to come by for University, but here in IL, community colleges are very widespread and prefer M.S. instructors because of the lower pay scale. If dh went for his PhD he'd have to do research which he really doesn't want to do anymore-that's why he wanted to teach community college (and has 5 years at different schools). He's supposed to have a Union rep with him at the meeting today, and he is tenure-track. That's his job description the same as all the other non-tenured instructors at his school. I don't know too much about Union stuff but I do know a very intelligent co-worker of dh's used to be their Union rep and said we're screwed. Since they're riffing us they have to give dh first dibs on his job if the economy turns around and they can rehire, but otherwise, they've exhausted every other possible option. Here in IL at the colleges he's worked at, it takes 3 years to get tenured and he *is tenure tracked*.

Does anyone know about whether one partner can live somewhere else so you can claim the Housing tax?

We are going to start applying for college jobs today but dh can't apply for post office jobs, etc. until May when his work here is over-he has to finish his semester.

[kittywitty]

He just called. Apparently it was in the contract that there is the option by the college to Riff them which knocks them down to part time status, so the Union can't do anything. And to avoid age discrimination and b/c of seniority, more people had to be riffed than they wanted. In a few months dh might have the option of getting his job back, but he'd have to work part time here and part time an hour away to take the job back. We aren't willing to do that for multiple reasons.

So we're on for the job search.

Can you get the tax rebate if one of the married partners is NOT living there? There's a possibility dh can live part of the week with one of his sisters and commute down here half the week if one of the colleges accepts him. Or he'd have to move out of state and we'd see him once a month-maybe-and we'd stay here where I try and find a job.