9 yo boy very negative

[Super Pickle]

I do not understand what is going on with my 9 year old son. He was sooooooooo sweet and happy as a baby/toddler/young child. I practiced attachment parenting and was a gentle, supportive mom. He was the kind of kid that makes a mother feel that she must be the world's best parent.

For the past 2 years or so, though, he has been so negative! I mean, he's always complaining about everything and saying he hates this and that. He very bright and he goes on long rants against school that sound like they were lifted out of the books on gifted students and out of the pro-homeschooling books (he's an astute observer). He whines that he hates his after-school activities (Cub Souts, in which my DH is a leader, Suzuki violin, and piano), but when he is actualy in a lesson or at a meeting he seems happy. He says he hates his life, but everyone that knows us think we have the best life! I'm always spending time with my kids and doing fun stuff with them. They cook, they have friends over, we go to the parks, we go sledding, etc. He says he's fed up with his family and wants to live alone. He says all his friends have better lives becaue they get to eat junk food whenever they want and play video games whenever they want. He often takes a sulky tone with me. He also accuses and blames me for things I didn't do; the "See what you made me do" type of stuff.

Now, I have been talking to his teachers to find out if he is like this with them. ALL his teachers--Sunday School, Cub den leaders, schoolteachers, violin, and piano teachers--say he is always agreeable and pleasant! HIs school teachers say he talks about Cub Scouts and music lessons as if he greatly enjoys them! He apparenty has asked if he could bring his violin to school and if he could wear his Scout uniform to school, and he tries to recruit his friends to Scouts.

I am just so sick of the whining and complaining. I made a list on the fridge of things like complaining, arguing, grumbling, whining, saying "I hate..." etc and if he does one of those things, I give him a "strike." Three strikes and he loses the privilege of playing video games or having friends over on the weekends. He insists that this system is just going to make him more miserable and that he should be allowed to express his feelings. I get that he deserves to express his feelings, but I've already told him, "I'm not homeshooling you, because I want to start working again and I should not have to stay home just to homeschool when you go to a good school. You're not quitting violin because you have learned so much and it's the only thing that challenges you, the only thing in your life that you have to work at."

I love having fun with my kids and doing everything I can for them. If he is not happy that is his choice, and I am sick of hearing about it!!!!

Anybody been through something similar? Do I need to find a counselor?

[heartmama]

I have a 13 year old boy.

Personally it is 100% irrelevant to me what other people say about how he feels--what matters to me is what ds says he thinks and feels. I firmly believe you cannot know a person better than they know themselves. I would never say to dh "But everyone at work says you like your job!" if he told me he hated his job. If he hates his job, and says so, it is irrelevant whether other people say "Oh, but you like it!".

It sounds like your son is saying loud and clear that he hates certain activities, and you are insisting he likes them. Personally, I would fight for whatever flexibility my life allowed, so that ds could stop activities he had shown persistent, consistent dislike towards (you said your son has been feeling this way for two years).

Often if one major part of your life sucks (school) then everything else gets on your nerves too. If your son feels miserable inside at school, then he will be that much quicker to 'get negative' towards the small stuff.

It is so important to me that my ds be empowered in his own decision making at this age (increasingly so starting at about 3 years old, and moreso each year after that). I want his life to be what he wants it to be, within the limits of reality and workability.

As far as your situation, it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that what you see happening is not happening--but it sounds like it is happening. Your son does not like school, and apparently does not like scouts either. It sounds like you are very invested in him liking both (you said your husband is the den leader).

Sometimes we, as parents, have to choose between how we pictured our child's childhood being, and what the child in front of us is saying. That is SO HARD--I have been there, and it is not easy. But I have never regretting, erring on the side of listening to ds and helping him honor his gut feelings about his life.

P.S. I just want to say that the idea of 'being a good mother' is not about appearances, and that is tough to realize, when society puts so much pressure on us. I measure my motherhood by internal standards. How do we FEEL as a family. I don't care how we look. I have learned not to care because of ds having SN. That helped me care less about appearances. You sound like you feel a lot of pressure to be a perfect mom.

"I'm not homeshooling you, because I want to start working again and I should not have to stay home just to homeschool when you go to a good school. You're not quitting violin because you have learned so much and it's the only thing that challenges you, the only thing in your life that you have to work at."

I love having fun with my kids and doing everything I can for them. If he is not happy that is his choice, and I am sick of hearing about it!!!!

I hear a lot of frustration in this part, and I also hear you feeling very uneasy with the idea of letting go of knowing what is best for him, or letting go of some control in general on this issue. He sounds incredibly smart and articulate. It sounds like you are perhaps, shutting him down, because it makes you uneasy to 'go there' with the less fun and comfortable part of who he is--but I encourage you to TRUST him, and to *go there* with him, and open up a dialogue between you in which you come to the table without feeling like you know how the situation is going to resolve. There is nothing wrong, and a lot right, with your son wanting to be heard, and wanting someone to listen to his frustration. Although homeschooling may not be an option, it is important to honor the fact that he told he it was important to him--he is saying he wants to spend more time with you--which is a very, very wonderful thing to hear your child say! Try to hear the positive in his message, try to let this conversation bring you closer rather than making it win/lose. He should not have to be happy all the time in order to be around you, kwim? He needs to feel there are safe times in which you listen. With ds, he can ask for a 'listening session' in which he does ALL the talking and I am not allowed to talk, beyond indicating that I heard him. It is the single most powerful way I know to help him "get it all out" and hit that 'reset' button. It is amazing, and really hard, and uncomfortable at first, to hear your child getting out all these strong emotions. But if you can just be present and listen, once they get them out, most kids (like us) just wanted to be heard, and feel empowered by it.

[AutumnSunshine]

Hmm, well my oldest has been in the beginning stages of puberty and this is somewhat how she acts. I think moodiness is typical of this age group.

However I also don't see you saying that you've tried to engage him in a dialogue on this. Have you asked him why he doesn't like the activities? Have you asked him what he would like to do instead? Or what could he or others do to improve his current activities for him? There is always the chance that there is a serious problem going on (bullying, etc.) that is making him react to the situations that are uncomfortable for him but it also could be that he just needs a change of scenery or an adjustment to the situation that nobody thought of.

Another thought that comes to mind is if he is just overwhelmed with "activities" and if perhaps he would like more free time to pursue his own interests. It sure sounds as if your son might be gifted or at the very least a free thinker type. Since homeschooling is not an option for you, and school is often a pretty mind-numbing place for gifted kids no matter how much acceleration they are given, I would highly recommend allowing him to free up blocks of time for his own use-- either to recharge his batteries (in case he is an introvert and needs alone time to regain his energy) and/or to do his own projects, reading, etc.

A good book that could guide you on this is called "Creative Homeschooling: A Resource Guide for Smart Families" (the inside of the book title is different, it is "Creative Homeschooling for the Gifted" or something like that). It guides you through a process called "Big Ideas for Big Thinkers" which is something your son could do to explore his own interests on his own time. The book is wonderful and I promise you will find it useful and full of help in understanding gifteness, and resources you could easily use during non-school hours.

I noticed the way you said that you told your son ""I'm not homeshooling you, because I want to start working again and I should not have to stay home just to homeschool when you go to a good school." I'll be perfectly honest and tell you that that sounds like a pretty childish thing for a parent to say. (Don't worry, I'm not judging you because we've all said dumb stuff. It happens. ) But what your son will hear in that is "I don't care about what you want, I only care about that I want to go back to work" and may possibly infer that "my mom doesn't like me because she'd rather be at work than with me" whether that is what you meant or not.

I would suggest chosing a calm time to sit down with him and first off ask him why he would like to homeschool and change his activities and get his point of view on the table first. Write down his points in a list. Then explain to him that you understand him and you want to help him achieve his goals as best as possible without homeschooling. Explain very simply and honestly that not all parents are able to homeschool their children because homeschooling can be very complicated. Don't give details. Then use the list of things he talked about and show that you are concerned for him by finding ways together to meet these needs outside of school, maybe using the resource guide I mentioned above.

[Edited--I missed the part where you said dh is the Cub Scout Leader, so he does have guy-led activities. I do wonder if he still needs other guy-led activities besides Scouts, maybe with someone other than his dad?]

And finally, in the same vein, is he also so overscheduled with school and activitites that he doesn't spend enough time with his parents? I would advise you to look at that question from his point of view, rather than imposing your own viewpoint on this one. Do you have some kind of weekly outings? Down time together where you can just hang out? Family rituals and games that you do together often and he can look forward to? Etc? Chances are he probably needs way more at this age than you think is "necessary" since kids at this age are on the fence between babyhood and bigkidhood and quite often they need to retreat into "babyhood" in order to feel secure which could mean more parental attention just at the time you think "hey my kid is growing up and getting so independent now, woo hoo!" So be sensitive to his changes in needs that way too.

I have found that when the situation grows to include a long list of "offenses" that I have to punish for and punishment is only making them grumpier, that I need to change my strategy. That is without exception (IME) the time when more attachment and hugs are needed rather than the opposite.

HTH!

[vocalise]

I'm sorry you're going through this as a mom; it's so hard to watch our kids struggle in any way.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read the post was "this kid needs power". It sounds like he needs choices, and while you may not be able to give him exactly what he's asking for (homeschooling), he may need a lot more flexibility in terms of other choices in his life (extra curricular activites, or maybe which school he attends, or maybe even what he has for supper).

I read a really good book that may offer some help in terms of planting the seeds of optimism in kids (or replanting, in your son's case!). HTH

[Super Pickle]

Thank you heartmama, UmmZaynab, and vocalise for taking the time to read my post and respond. I've been mulling over all that you've been saying and some of it seems right on. (Some of it was also off; for one thing, I am not about appearances, and for another thing, I have listened and listened to DS, but after dozens of long conversations in which I sit patiently with him as he pours his heart out, I get tired of the sulking) Anyway, vocalise, I think your observation that "this kid needs power" is very accurate. And I think the biggest issue is this:

We are too busy with school and extracurriculars. He needs more down time. He needs time with his friends, more time with me that doesn't involve homework or practicing, and unstructured time alone.


Last night, we had a Scout pack meeting. I was there (I always go to the pack meetings but not the den meetings) and saw him having a great time with his friends the whole time. We were the last to leave and as we walked to our car, he had a huge smile on his face and he said to me, "That was so much fun! I had a great time." Since there is no school today, we then just spent a few hours chilling out together in the baby's room. We had a "Family sleepover"-- DS and his 6 yo brother brought all the afghans and quilts in and made a huge pallet and we just hung out together. DS did not complain at all-in fact, he was beaming. I thought to myself, "This is just like it used to be." Truthfully, that is how our family used to be. We used to spend hours every night cuddled up in bed reading or chatting. Now we don't take time for that because we are going to meetings or lessons or practicing at home.

If there's anything about his life that sucks, it's being overscheduled, and maybe violin. He never complains about piano and only about Scouts when he's tired and is being rushed to get ready for a meeting. Violin is the activity that is most high-pressure. We have 2 lessons a week and daily practice. It's also the thing he complains about most, and i think the other complaining is spill-over. I have approached my husband many times over the past year about quitting but DH is not on board. DH studied at a conservatory and feels that they are learning too much to quit, and that they cant possibly appreciate all they're gaining at this point. However, I am definitely going to make some changes. I am going to shorten practice time and drop the weekly group lesson, which will free up one more afternoon a week. I'll play the CD while we play cards or hang out and count that as our practice sometimes.

I understand what DS is going through with school. He is in the gifted program, which he loves, but it's only once a week. When I was his age, there was no pull-out program, my IQ tested 20 + points higher than his, and I was socially inept to boot, while DS has tons of friends and is a total social butterfly. I understand that school is boring, but when I was a kid I just escaped into my own mind. I never thought to make my problem everybody else's problem by complaining. I assumed everyone just hated school but there was nothing we could do about it (I had never heard of homeschooling at 9 years old! Plus both my parents worked). I was not a complainer and I did not ask for stuff as a child; perhaps I thought I did not have the right? Maybe this is why it is so hard for me to see my son feeling free to complain, to ask for what he wants, etc. My Dad commented positively recently on how comfortable my children were expressing their needs and that really bothered me. He meant it as a compliment but I thought to myself, "Maybe I should have taught them not to complain from the start. Maybe I have indulged them too much..."

[AutumnSunshine]

I'm so glad you were able to find some ways to fix your situation.

Regarding the violin, is your dh open to the idea of taking a break? Is your ds interested in other instruments, perhaps even other violin-like instruments? (Viola, cello, bass...) Of course I'm sure I don't need to mention that forcing a kid to do something because one of the parents was good at it isn't a great methodology, so that's something between you and your dh.

As far as complaining goes, I teach my kids that just whining that something is "bad" is complaining. Instead I try to teach them to offer information about how the situation can be fixed instead. So coming to me and whining "I'm huuuunnnngggrrrryy" or "I don't feeeeellll good!" I teach them to come to me and say "Mom, can I please have something to eat?" or "Mom, something doesn't feel good, can you help me?" or something to that effect.

I have noticed in myself also that I will complain a lot if I feel powerless to have my voice heard and get the situation changed. I have read that boys in particular don't want to necessarily talk about how they feel about things but they want to discuss what concrete actions they can take. I think this probably applies to all people to a greater or lesser extent, but I have read that this is a really pressing need for boys.

HTH.