Need to vent, sad about Aunts baby

[Xavismom]

This may be kind of long... but I just feel so upset about it I feel like I need to get it out!

My Aunt just had her first baby 3 weeks after I had my DS. There is a lot of background to that, but to shorten it up, the entire family was very concerned about her having a baby. Two years ago she was drugged at a bar, and almost died, she was in a coma for 2 months and was not expected to come out or survive. She did, but has many health and mental problems now, and was addicted to a lot of antidepressants and pain pills. She became obsessed with having a baby for some reason, and we all worried about it, since she was taking so many drugs, and has mini-strokes and severe depression.

She did wean herself off all the drugs (AND smoking) but not completely until her 2nd trimester, so we were concerned about the baby.

Then at 37 weeks ( I think) she said she was 'tired of being pregnant' and sick of 'feeling full of baby' that she drank a bunch of castor oil until it put her in labor. She had the typical pit/epi hospital birth.

My DS should have been a good six weeks older than her DD, but instead they are only 3 weeks apart. I saw her a few days after she was born and I was shocked by her appearance. She was so pale and sort of a greyish color, and she was so limp and floppy when I held her. I dont have any experience with babies other than my DS, so I hope this is just because she was early and kind of small? I think she was 17 inches and 6.1 Ibs.

I saw her yesterday for the second time, my Aunt came to visit DS & I. I think she is around 8 weeks.. and is now 21 inches and 7.2 Ibs. So she has only gained like one pound? This seems crazy to me, does this seem bad to anyone else here? She is still smaller than my DS was at birth!

I know my Aunt tried breastfeeding for a the first week or so, but she told me on the phone that she 'didnt make enough milk' so she was supplementing with formula. I told her that could be a bad idea and make her supply even lower, and offered to take her with me to an LLL meeting, but she didnt go. So a few days later she had her DD totally on formula, and I tried to be very supportive to her because she told me she had wanted to breastfeed, and I just felt sad for them both.

Also, in phone conversations over the last 2 weeks, she keeps telling me her DD 'cant poop', or has a hard time. Its almost like she is obsesed with her DD pooping... She said the poop is not hard, its still runny baby poop, but she still thinks DD is constipated, bc she cries, and 'looks' like she is trying to poop. My Aunts Pediatrician told her to give DD a little bit of juice in a bottle!! Again, I think this is nuts.... is this crazy?? I cant imagine a baby this young needs juice?? She also told me she's used suppositories (per the Ped) to get DD to poo.

So yesterday at my house, she pulls out a bottle to give to DD, and it looks like juice, so I ask what it is. She told me it was Pedialite. I have no idea if that is ok for an 8 week old... is it?? I asked her why she was giving that, and said she was worried about her DD being dehydrated from pooping so much the day before from a suppository!! I just didnt even know what to say in the moment... So her DD finished off the pedialite, and then was crying so Aunt gave her a bottle of formula. DD cried on and off while drinking it.

She is so tiny, and still has a greyish color. I held her for a while, and she is still so limp and floppy. I know you cant compare babies, because every baby is different and develops at its own rate... but its SO hard not to compare her to my DS. He is big for his age, but aside from that, he never had that floppy 'feel' to him, and it makes me so worried about the little girl. She cant hold her head up, or hold on to any toys or anything by herself, at 2 months. She still looks like a tiny newborn. She is unresponsive, and either cries or is just kind of zoned out. It makes me so sad.

Now I am wondering if maybe she is not getting enough nutrition in her bc of my Aunt always trying to get her to poop, and filling her up on pedialite and juice instead of just giving her the formula. Its just breaking my heart.

I WANT to say something to my Aunt so bad, but she is a very defensive type, and if I do, she will ignore it anyways, and then ignore me too. She did mention numerous times, especially while I was BFing my DS that she wishes she could have breastfed. I am thinking of offering her all the frozen breastmilk in my freezer.... but is that wierd?? I told her about how DS would not take a bottle the first time I had to leave him with DH last week, so I could tell her since I cant use the milk, she could have it if she wants it??? I feel like her DD could really really use the nutrition from the BM....

I am just so brokenhearted. My aunt is not the person she used to be at all... and its not her fault, she suffered a lot of brain damage from her incident. But I worry about that little girl. My aunt has barely been able to take care of HERSELF since all that first happened to her, and now she has an infant to take care of. I dont know what to do, or if I should even DO anything.

[AFWife]

If you suspect neglect have you called someone to just get an opinion? It sounds like such a tough situation...and to have it be a family member must make it even harder. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[kcstar]

At 8 weeks, the only thing a baby needs for hydration is breastmilk or formula.

I'm no professional on any of this, but what you write scares me that the poor baby is starving to death from pedialyte. It can't possibly have the vitamins and minerals the baby needs to survive. Think of the poor baby who starved on soy milk instead of infant formula, and call CPS!

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Do you know the pediatrician's name. Maybe you could give their office a heads up and have it dealt with that way?

[MCR]

That is so sad. Is it possible she's limiting the baby's intake of formula and trying to control everything about her, like with the poop thing. I'd be really worried, you have no idea what the ped has told her, or even if she's really been. Myself I'd want to call CPS seeing she's had so many issues of her own lately, the gray color really bothers me, I had little babies, born at 6lb 9 and 37 weeks too, but by 8 weeks they had lots of color (what a pasty white baby can) and were alert. The floppiness and grayness is worrying.
I'm sure I'll get flammed for wanting to calling CPS, but the baby sounds sick/delayed/malnourished.

[claddaghmom]

It all sounds horrible, but none of it sounds CPS worthy. I mean, it's the basic carp that you hear on mainstream forums and FB statuses all the time.


BUT you keep mentioning grey and floppy. That worries me. You're right, babies can't be compared. But no babies are grey and floppy due to being different. That sounds serious.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Xavismom

She did, but has many health and mental problems now, and was addicted to a lot of antidepressants and pain pills. ... she was taking so many drugs, and has mini-strokes and severe depression.

your aunt is at super high risk for post partum depression.

I know my Aunt tried breastfeeding for a the first week or so, but she told me on the phone that she 'didnt make enough milk' so she was supplementing with formula.

I'm all for BFing and tandum nursed my kids, but in her case, it really may be best that she isn't. She can now take whatever meds she needs to be help her stay on an even keel, and she can easily leave her baby so she can get a break or go to therapy or whatever. Her mental health is more important for her and her baby than attachment parenting.

My Aunts Pediatrician told her to give DD a little bit of juice in a bottle!!

I think it is great that she is taking her child to a doctor and following the instructions. I wouldn't contridict the advice, even though it is mainstream and not what you would do. Your aunt needs support, and that doesn't come from getting a bunch of different people telling you to do different things.

I would also trust that the doctor is monitoring the baby's health and knows what is going on.

I just didnt even know what to say in the moment... So her DD finished off the pedialite, and then was crying so Aunt gave her a bottle of formula.

You might try reading up on "non-violent communication" skills to learn more about talking and being supportive without offering judgment.

When she comments on BF, you could say something like, "You DID bf, and the first (few days, few weeks, whatever) really are the most important. It's great that you DID bf while it was working. And now your baby is getting nutrition in a different way. The important thing is that she is eating!" Be totally positive and supportive and totally let go of how to do everything perfect because that just isn't possible.

Giving your aunt messages that she isn't doing this well enough will only make things worse for her and her baby. Find ways to encourage her and point out what she is doing right.

She cant hold her head up, or hold on to any toys or anything by herself, at 2 months. She still looks like a tiny newborn. She is unresponsive, and either cries or is just kind of zoned out. It makes me so sad.

One of my kids has mild special needs and did everything late. It's great that the baby is being taken to a doctor. Dr. do routine screenings for developmental mile stones. I would encourage the mom to get connected to early intervention/ parents without teachers/whatever they have where you live when the time comes. And yes, it is sad when development is off. It's doesn't mean that the parent is doing something wrong.

Now I am wondering if maybe she is not getting enough nutrition in her bc of my Aunt always trying to get her to poop, and filling her up on pedialite and juice instead of just giving her the formula.

But didn't this just happen this week? Do you have any reason to think that your aunt is *always* giving her juice and pedialite?

What kind of help and support is your aunt getting? What kind of help is she getting for depression? Is she on meds? Is she in weekly talk therapy? This is really where I would put my effort. Depression and PPD run in my family and I had two relatives kill themselves in the first year after having a child.

I would trust the doctor to make sure that the baby is getting proper care, and put effort into making sure that mom is also being cared for by mental health professionals.

[Xavismom]

I think it is great that she is taking her child to a doctor and following the instructions. I wouldn't contridict the advice, even though it is mainstream and not what you would do. Your aunt needs support, and that doesn't come from getting a bunch of different people telling you to do different things.

I would also trust that the doctor is monitoring the baby's health and knows what is going on.

This is pretty much what my Mom said. My Aunt has a Nurse that the state sends over once a week to check on her, and the baby, and to talk to her about stuff. They started this when she was preg bc of all her issues, and bc she cant work she is pretty much living off of the Gov taking care of them. It DOES make me feel better that a Nurse is there every week, but I dont know really how great this Nurse is bc Aunt said she told her to let DD suck on a candy cane for a few seconds to help an upset tummy!! Seriously!

When she comments on BF, you could say something like, "You DID bf, and the first (few days, few weeks, whatever) really are the most important. It's great that you DID bf while it was working. And now your baby is getting nutrition in a different way. The important thing is that she is eating!" Be totally positive and supportive and totally let go of how to do everything perfect because that just isn't possible.

Giving your aunt messages that she isn't doing this well enough will only make things worse for her and her baby. Find ways to encourage her and point out what she is doing right.

This is pretty much how I handled the whole BFing issue, because I know from experience, putting anything in a negative way with her makes her shut down.

I know she loves her DD and thinks she is doing great, so I want to be supportive and help her, not make her feel like I am calling her a bad mom, YK? I know I've got to be positive to be able to get anywhere with her.

But didn't this just happen this week? Do you have any reason to think that your aunt is *always* giving her juice and pedialite?

Yes, yesterday was the first I heard about the pedialite, so I have no idea when that started, or how often.

I think I'm going to call her tmw just to 'chat', AKA get more information, and I think I am going to offer her the frozen BM and see how she responds to that. I have oversupply anyways.

What kind of help and support is your aunt getting? What kind of help is she getting for depression? Is she on meds? Is she in weekly talk therapy? This is really where I would put my effort. Depression and PPD run in my family and I had two relatives kill themselves in the first year after having a child.

I would trust the doctor to make sure that the baby is getting proper care, and put effort into making sure that mom is also being cared for by mental health professionals.

THIS, exactly, is what scares me. A few months before she concieved she was hospitalized for a suicide attempt. She is on state assistance, so she does see counselors, and that Nurse comes over once a week. I know she is back on Xanax. Ugh I just feel so sad about the whole thing. I am an only child, but we spent a lot of time together when I was little, and we are only a few years apart ( I am 32 and she is 37) so she is the closest thing I have to a sister.

[Xavismom]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

It all sounds horrible, but none of it sounds CPS worthy. I mean, it's the basic carp that you hear on mainstream forums and FB statuses all the time.


BUT you keep mentioning grey and floppy. That worries me. You're right, babies can't be compared. But no babies are grey and floppy due to being different. That sounds serious.

This is what I was wondering too.... All of my friends are 'mainstream' with their parenting... Some of the things they tell me they do, I just think are absolutely AWFULL. But on the other hand, some of the things I do/plan to do, they think are awfull.

And I have never been around babies, so I dont know what they are supposed to feel like! I just know my DS never felt like that!! And I know our kids have different racial backgrounds, but I still feel her skin tone is off.

I just dont know what to do, or how much I should do.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by Xavismom

This is what I was wondering too.... All of my friends are 'mainstream' with their parenting... Some of the things they tell me they do, I just think are absolutely AWFULL. But on the other hand, some of the things I do/plan to do, they think are awfull.

And I have never been around babies, so I dont know what they are supposed to feel like! I just know my DS never felt like that!! And I know our kids have different racial backgrounds, but I still feel her skin tone is off.

I just dont know what to do, or how much I should do.

Ummmm no. Feeding you baby formula instead of breastmilk might be "mainstream" parenting, it's not ideal, but it gets the job done. Giving them suppositories when they aren't constipated, and then feeding them pedialyte instead of formula is abuse. It might be done out of love, or out of misunderstanding of what infants need, but the baby doesn't know that. All she knows is that she's not getting enough nutrients to grow.

I'd talk to her and see if what you imply is happening is really happening, but if it does turn out that she's giving whole bottles of pedialyte on a regular basis, or using suppositories regularly without clear reason then yes, I think it warrants a CPS call.

[NYCVeg]

I just wanted to add that being small should not in and of itself make a baby "grey and floppy." Everyone in my family has small babies--my dd was 6/4, my niece #1 was 6/6, my niece #2 was just under 6 pounds (incidentally, my and my sisters all gave birth about a week before our EDD, without any artificial inducements). All of these were perfectly healthy babies who LOOKED healthy--bright eyes, rosy skin, alert, etc. I'd be much less concerned about the size of the baby relative to yours--some kids are just smaller--than about an overall sense of poor health.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by Xavismom

This is what I was wondering too.... All of my friends are 'mainstream' with their parenting... Some of the things they tell me they do, I just think are absolutely AWFULL. But on the other hand, some of the things I do/plan to do, they think are awfull.

And I have never been around babies, so I dont know what they are supposed to feel like! I just know my DS never felt like that!! And I know our kids have different racial backgrounds, but I still feel her skin tone is off.

I just dont know what to do, or how much I should do.

Have you talked to your aunt about it? "Oh, aunt, baby Y looks so grey, what did her pediatrician say about it?"

Does she have a support person? Someone you can call and say, "hey, tell me what's going on with the baby."

Originally Posted by Momily

Ummmm no. Feeding you baby formula instead of breastmilk might be "mainstream" parenting, it's not ideal, but it gets the job done. Giving them suppositories when they aren't constipated, and then feeding them pedialyte instead of formula is abuse. It might be done out of love, or out of misunderstanding of what infants need, but the baby doesn't know that. All she knows is that she's not getting enough nutrients to grow.

I'd talk to her and see if what you imply is happening is really happening, but if it does turn out that she's giving whole bottles of pedialyte on a regular basis, or using suppositories regularly without clear reason then yes, I think it warrants a CPS call.

Yes, but is CPS going to see it as abuse? I've heard plenty of doctors and nurses recommend suppositories and pedialyte, and much worse. It's noted in the OP that the lady gave her baby a bottle of formula after the pedialyte.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

Yes, but is CPS going to see it as abuse? I've heard plenty of doctors and nurses recommend suppositories and pedialyte, and much worse. It's noted in the OP that the lady gave her baby a bottle of formula after the pedialyte.

That's CPS's decision to make. They'll investigate and make a decision as to whether or not it's abuse. But if she never calls that decision won't get made. CPS can put in place different supports for a family. They can require regular check ins with a pediatrician, or parenting class, or ask that a child attend daycare so they know the child's getting fed an cared for there.

I agree that doctors recommend suppositories and pedialyte. At times I used both with my own child. But the way the OP is describing their use isn't in keeping with how they're supposed to be used. Giving a suppository to a child who isn't actually constipated, or giving pedialyte to a child who is capable of holding down formula isn't the same as using them carefully under doctor's orders.

[ILoveMyBabyBird]

I would say that while offering your excess breast milk may make her feel bad, it may be a good idea. i also struggled with making enough milk and had to supplement my ds with formula, but if i had a close relative offer milk, i would have preferred that. My ds was not getting enough breastmilk the first 10 days and i had called nurse helpline, lactation consultants and no one helped me, my sister even thought ds looked pale/bluish as you describe and didn't say anything to me until after the fact, (she is very anti-breastfeeding). If she was having supply issues, and she noticed her baby wasn't getting enough milk, I am finding it hard to believe she is in denial about the baby not getting enough nutrients, unless it is deliberate. As far as the pedilyte, supositories thing, it is possible that your aunt may be taking the advice of the dr. , the weekly check-in person and who knows whether she is following their advice to the t. Did she take parenting classes when pregnant? I had been around babies, babysat, and worked in childcare for many years but me and dh still took that newborn class and we had to pay oop for it. Maybe a simple baby's first year dvd or book may help? Also if she came to stop by, she may be trying to reach out to you since you both have newborns around the same age. There are many possibilities, i would say if you truly are concerned, try to grow closer to your aunt and give subtle advice on how to care for her baby. And if her doctor did say to give pedilyte/supositories and you stand against it, it may be hard for her to believe you over a dr. kwim? That's how many people are. Good luck, stick to it and hoping you figure our this situation soon.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by Momily

That's CPS's decision to make. They'll investigate and make a decision as to whether or not it's abuse. But if she never calls that decision won't get made. CPS can put in place different supports for a family. They can require regular check ins with a pediatrician, or parenting class, or ask that a child attend daycare so they know the child's getting fed an cared for there.

I agree that doctors recommend suppositories and pedialyte. At times I used both with my own child. But the way the OP is describing their use isn't in keeping with how they're supposed to be used. Giving a suppository to a child who isn't actually constipated, or giving pedialyte to a child who is capable of holding down formula isn't the same as using them carefully under doctor's orders.

Mhm, but we will have to disagree on that point. Your logic could be applied to everyone. Might as well start calling CPS on every family you know, b/c CPS can decide what's abuse and what's not.

I didn't see the OP confirm that the infant was wrongly given a suppository. And I would say that if the OP is so close as to have enough contact to know if the infant was constipated or not, then a prompt call to the ped's office or support person can verify what's happening before making an anonymous call to CPS.

[Storm Bride]

The baby being grayish worries me, but the size and weight gain don't. We have a baby in our complex who was born a week before dd2. The other baby, D, was preemie...six weeks, I think...something like that. She's tiny - literally about half the size of my dd2, or even a little less. Her early (first few months) weight gains were in the 2-4 oz. area, while dd2 was gaining over a pound a visit. But, D is alert, healthy looking, has good colour and interacts enthusiastically with everyone. She's just small.

The things that jump out at me from the OP:

1. Her aunt didn't say that the pediatrician told her to give her dd Pedialyte - just that she (the aunt) was worried about dehydration.

2. The fact that the pediatrician advised juice and suppositories sounds wacky to me...but he's also only going on what the aunt said. She told the OP that the poop is runny looking, but that doesn't mean she told the ped that. If he's really prescribing juice and suppositories for an 8 week old baby, based on "...DD is constipated, bc she cries, and 'looks' like she is trying to poop", then I think he's incompetent. I have yet to see a young baby who doesn't, at least sometimes, cry and look like they're trying to poop. My guess would be that the aunt hasn't told him that. IME, if someone is really fixated on something, the way the aunt seems to be on the "can't poop" thing, they won't always provide honest information about why they think that. If the OP's aunt thinks that other people won't trust her reasons, it's not unlikely that she'll just make up reasons that are convincing enough.

3. The aunt gave the baby a suppository to make her poop, then gave her pedialyte (possibly with the ped's advice, but the OP doesn't say so), because she was worried about dehydration, because her dd pooped too much. This is not logical or rational, and it worries me for the baby girl's health. Her mom seems to have all the best intentions, but she's behaving very oddly about feeding her dd.

I don't think this sounds CPS worthy, but it is worrying. I'm not sure what to suggest, honestly. It's not a good situation.

[Xavismom]

I just had a talk with my mom about the whole thing again. Aunt also mentioned that my other Aunt (the middle sister, my mom is the oldest) has been watching her DD occasionally. My mom and I are going to call my middle Aunt (the one that has babysat her) and ask her what she thinks about this whole thing. We all had many conversations already about the pregnancy issues. We want to find out if the pedialite thing is everyday, or once in a while, the same with the whole pooping thing. We'll go from there hopefully we'll have a better picture of what is going on.

As for the BM, I already told Aunt I have oversupply, and I dont think she knows anything about BFing, so I'm thinking of putting it in a way that she would be *helping* me by taking some extra milk.

Thanks for your replies everyone, its nice to have people to mull things over with, and different points of view. I'll update you guys as I get more info.

[ollyoxenfree]

Have you spoken directly with the pediatrician or the nurse who have been involved? How reliable is your aunt? Given her history (traumatic brain injury) and risks (depression and other mental illness), is there any concern about her ability to understand directions and information from health professionals? Will she report fully and honestly to you about what the health professionals have advised?

I question whether any health professional has told her it's okay to give juice or pedialyte or suppositories to an 8 week old. Yes, this advice is common, but usually with much older children who are no longer getting nutrition from breastmilk/formula alone. She may have misunderstood or she may not be honest with you about whether they told her do these things.

Perhaps you could go with her to the next appointment, or conveniently be visiting when the nurse stops in. It will give you a better sense of how good her professional support is. Perhaps you could suggest she see your pediatrician instead, if you think hers is not great.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Honestly? I would contact CPS. A grey/floppy 8 week old doesn't sound healthy. CPS wouldn't immediately remove the baby from the home - they would try to put some more support's in place for your aunt, and help make sure that the baby is getting everything she needs.

I know people don't think its CPS worthy, but a baby not getting enough nutrients to grow/thrive IS cps worthy.

[Marsupialmom]

I hate to admit I would consider CPS also. You do not have enough information. They would come in and review the situation in a way you cannot

Does her area have Parents as Teachers? Sign up with her for this program. You might have to nod your head and ignore them but she might benefit greatly from them.

My son was breast fed. Early on I question his pooping habits. He always struggled with them. I never felt it was right. I was told by doctors it will get better when he crawled, walked, it was normal, et. Everyone thought I was nuts. It wasn't until he was 4 that he finally got diagnosed with chronic constipation and had developed encropresis. We had years of suffering. I wish someone would have better respected my "obsession" with him not pooping normal. Ironicly, once my son's issues were diagnosed my grandma started talking about family members that had issues pooping when they were small and old -- there is a familiar pattern. SO PLEASE, respect that your cousin might have something going on that your aunt is getting bad advice.