14 month old, time to start discipline? - Page 2

[minmoto2]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

I don't know why it's okay for some posters to say kids are impossible in restaurants but it's not okay for others to say their kids are good in restaurants, and why they are good.

I don't think sapphirechan is saying it's not okay to say your kids are good in restaurants & why. I think (correct me if i'm wrong here sapphirechan) she is saying that these same methods may not work for every child. The parent with a toddler that isn't ready to 'work on manners' may feel something is wrong with their child or parenting, when it's really society's unrealistic expectations that are in the wrong.

I think it's unfortunate that so many believe a 'good' kid is the quiet kid at the dinner table, when that yelling, food flinging, wriggly toddler at the next table is exhibiting developmentally appropriate behaviors. This maybe not the desired behavior, but maybe society is expecting a bit much from a toddler?

All of my kiddos have been able to sit at dinner, but not because I have attempted to practice with them, they just have that temperment. They have also had their moments at restaurants where we have had to walk around to entertain them while not actively eating.

There is a very broad range of normal for toddlers and the fact that some kids can sit and some can't is probably just a reflection of that range and encouragement of 'appropriate' behavior in the kiddos ready for it.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by minmoto2

I don't think sapphirechan is saying it's not okay to say your kids are good in restaurants & why. I think (correct me if i'm wrong here sapphirechan) she is saying that these same methods may not work for every child. The parent with a toddler that isn't ready to 'work on manners' may feel something is wrong with their child or parenting, when it's really society's unrealistic expectations that are in the wrong.

Yep!

Sorry everyone, I'd just read a lot of internet commenting about "just teach that child to mind!!" and "if you just tell them what do to, you won't have a brat!!!" and that made me twitchy.

[chipper26]

Originally Posted by crunchymomofmany

Thank you for this! As the mother of 7 children - I've had a wide range of personalities - some quiet and some very, very loud and naturally defiant and let me just say that it is not difficult to teach a child to sit still or have table manners - what is difficult is having the patience and/or consistency to do so. My children - believe you me - do not come out naturally obedient and cheerful! I've had to put in the time to parent them. Because I like to go out, I like to make sure it's an enjoyable experience for all - and I resent the implication that being taught something like manners is somehow painful or harmful to a child. I think allowing children to wander around a restaurant - which can be a dangerous place - is more harmful and further having seen firsthand the results of no parenting parenting, I'm not sure a hands-off approach is the best option! To each her own though...it's definitely a luxury that a mother with more than one child doesn't have!

How do you teach your children table manners at such a young age? I am picturing my dd screaming in her high chair and banging her head against the back of it if I make her sit there until everyone is finished... not a pleasant experience for anyone involved. Do you let them throw an all out fit in their chair and force them to stay there? Just curious...

Doesn't the impulsiveness at this age override the ability to "listen" in many instances? I know boundaries need to be set and enforced, but what are realistic expectations for kids under 2?

My dd doesn't wander around restaurants, but my dh and I play tag team a lot and walk her to the front, outside, etc. to occupy her if she is antsy in her seat.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by chipper26

How do you teach your children table manners at such a young age? I am picturing my dd screaming in her high chair and banging her head against the back of it if I make her sit there until everyone is finished... not a pleasant experience for anyone involved. Do you let them throw an all out fit in their chair and force them to stay there? Just curious...

Doesn't the impulsiveness at this age override the ability to "listen" in many instances? I know boundaries need to be set and enforced, but what are realistic expectations for kids under 2?

My dd doesn't wander around restaurants, but my dh and I play tag team a lot and walk her to the front, outside, etc. to occupy her if she is antsy in her seat.

Well what comes to my mind immediately is consistent redirection 24/7, not just at the restaurant. So if you don't want her climbing on the table, never let her on the table, ever.

I don't know if I'd call it "teaching manners" at this age, but more like "taking it off the radar." DD went through a table stage and we just made sure to cheerfully and instantly redirect her. Over and over and over. And one day she never did it and now she is 15 months and never does it. Same with things like throwing on the ground, banging, screaming, etc.

Of course, this concept won't work if the child has unmet needs. A tired, poopy, hungry, bored etc toddler is not going to have "table manners" no matter how long you practice beforehand. So flexibility and an open attitude are important.

[sapphire_chan]

I help Lina climb onto the table at home and she doesn't climb onto the table at restaurants or relatives homes.

Yeah, you could make a concerted effort to be consistent and work on table manners at home, or you could just model them and let your LO grow out of that phase.

It's like the arguments that if you don't make the child sleep alone, they'll never sleep in their own bed. Or if you don't put them down, they'll never learn to walk.

Just model what you want to happen, be prepared for what you don't want, and relax and they'll get there.

[mamazee]

I would just get take out for a while. One of my kids is a young toddler and very easy to go out with. The other one never would have been easy to go out with at that age no matter what. She was and still is very high needs, though she's just turned 8 and has lovely manners, and has for a years despite the trouble we had eating out when she was a toddler and baby. She's still a wild one, but she has a pretty good understanding of when to reign things in that has come with additional maturity.

I'm sure there are lots of kids like my younger one who can be gently taught to stay sitting through a meal. But then there are a few wild ones who are going to have trouble, and there's no point banging your head (and his or hers) against a wall when a little time will resolve it.

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by chipper26

How do you teach your children table manners at such a young age? I am picturing my dd screaming in her high chair and banging her head against the back of it if I make her sit there until everyone is finished... not a pleasant experience for anyone involved. Do you let them throw an all out fit in their chair and force them to stay there? Just curious...

For me, no. From infancy my babies sit at the table with me. I eat, they nurse. I eat, they lay in my lap. I eat, they sleep. Whatever. As they grow they sit on my lap or DH's and nurse or play with something while we eat. When they are high chair aged, they sit in their chair (a clip-to-the-table one) and play while we eat, and if they get cranky or miserable we take them out to sit on our laps. If need, be, I'll stand and eat while bouncing baby but we're still AT the table. When they move to a booster seat, they've pretty much got it down. Every now and then an impulsive toddler will jump out of the seat and I'll ask if he is finished, and he'll say yes or no. Yes, he can get down to play. No, he must come back up. As they grow a bit older we keep them at the table longer even when they are finished by talking with them. How many peas are on your plate? How many broccoli trees would you need to make a forest? What fruit would you put in your cup of water to turn it red? And so on.... We don't keep them there for the entire meal, but long enough that they slowly grow into staying for the whole time.

To me, it's all about interaction. We don't just sit and eat. We talk, pretend, count, sing songs, etc. It doesn't change when eating out...just a new place.

Doesn't the impulsiveness at this age override the ability to "listen" in many instances? I know boundaries need to be set and enforced, but what are realistic expectations for kids under 2?

I don't think in my parenting that impulsiveness ever gets to override anything.