My personal doubts, and your thoughts about the book Committed by Elizabeth Gilbert: Being there... - Page 3

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by scottishmommy

When you say that your husband isn't fulfilling his end of the bargain, do you mean that he doesn't look after your son when you work extra hours or have to go on business trips? If so, who looks after your son? Is it possible for you to find a go to babysitter who you can call at the last minute? I have a few friends who work odd hours and can step in for me if I need last minute childcare. What about some of your mom friends? Your son is 4 right? Does he have any friends that he could have a last minute playgroup with?
I know that the adjustment from SAHM to WOHM is really, really hard. It's hard on both the mom and the dad. I went back to work (I'm an opera singer) when my dd was a few weeks old, so I never had to make that transition. My work schedule isn't that consistent, except for my teaching job. I work steadily about 20 hours a week, but if I have a performance or something it can be all day everyday. The way I've made it work is to gather as many names of dependable sitters as possible. I have a huge network of willing hands. Everyone I meet who likes kids is on that list. I have no qualms about asking people to help me. So far I haven't had any major issues with this situation. Try talking to other moms in your son's preschool class and see if any of them would like to babysit occasionally for $10 an hour or so. I understand how frustrating it is when your spouse isn't stepping up to the plate, but you really need ask yourself whether or not he is going to change. If he's set in his ways you may want to figure out other options for childcare. Don't be afraid to ask other moms for help!

I appreciate all the time to think about and write advice. Thanks!

I did ask mothers in playgroups we have participated in, and no one was that interested, save one or two, and they said only on an as needed basis, which I understand because they all have more than one child.

When I say DH hasn't held up his end of the bargain (or my perception of what his end of the bargain should be) I mean that he complains and says how busy he is or how important he is EVERY time I need him for something to make a work function, be it travel or meetings at night or a conference or something that happens to be on a day when we don't have child care. DH is a major squawker when it comes to sick days, etc.

So, I end up using ALL my vacation, sick leave, etc because I'm always the parent covering these things.

And I'm the one who has to deal with the impact of that time off at work, you know? So, I feel like I never use sick leave for myself and I go to work sick and get even more worn out and it's because DH doesn't use sick leave or vacation for parenting things.

Honestly, other than some lawn stuff and a bedtime routine and his salary, I feel that DH wouldn't even me missed if he were to leave for a year or something. That's what he helps with. Yeah, a pay check is great, but if we need two paychecks we sort of need to parents balancing the pursuit of those paychecks.

I don't know...maybe there is no solution...I feel like I've gone round and round and round on this for so long...there's really no fixing the personalities involved.

I do everything because I know it needs to be done, and I'm miserable about it, and DH is fine with letting things go or letting me do it because he knows I will and he has faith that the world won't fall apart if he lets someone else (me) take care of things.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Just now reading this thread. Very thought provoking.

rock :you: hard place

This is really unacceptable of him. This isn't equal or enlightened. And you don't have to put up with this. I'm disgusted on your behalf.

What works for me so far is to work and parent serially. I've been a full time sahm for several years now. My youngest is 10 y.o. and I'll be going back to work soon. I'm fully aware that my retirement/career/earning ability has taken a hit because I made this choice. Is it fair that my husband is 'allowed' to work full time and pursue a career? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

Edited to add, about the general issue of the modern working mother you might read Unbending Gender: Why Family and Work Conflict and What to Do About It.

Good post. Thanks. I will look into that book.

Good luck with the transition back, too!

[nina_yyc]

Can you get him to revisit the budget with you? Sounds like the decision to cut childcare is not working. Get him to decide how to balance the books. Maybe cable is sacred but he can give up his gym, phone, drive a cheaper car, something.

Oh, and the sick day scenario - My DH stopped pulling that one real quick. He knew if I had to make up the time he'd be watching DD on the weekend. We used to alternate unless one of us had a big meeting/deadline etc.

[scottishmommy]

Is there any way you can just ignore your husband's griping and make him stay home when your son is sick? I understand how you feel about your dh not noticing if you left or something. I used to feel like that alot with my dh. Now I feel differently, but I've started to look at marriage in a different light. The way you write about your dh makes it seem like you don't have any respect for him (and I don't blame you). The impression I get is that he is a lazy, grumpy, middle man who will never really amount to much in life. He just sort of goes along with the status quo and isn't particularly interesting or ambitious. He also seem excessively controlling, hypercritical and a pretty lousy father. Is that what you think about your husband? And if so, how do you think that makes him feel? Could it be that he's just sort of given up on your marriage? I urge you to really take a look at things from his side of it. If he feels like he sucks at life, or rather that you think he does, why would he try to support you? Sometimes when people feel like they are complete failures they withdraw and stop caring. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him, but if you want to stay married, you may want to try and work things out. Maybe the reason your husband is so unsupportive is because he feels like he can't possibly do anything right.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by nina_yyc

Can you get him to revisit the budget with you? Sounds like the decision to cut childcare is not working. Get him to decide how to balance the books. Maybe cable is sacred but he can give up his gym, phone, drive a cheaper car, something.

Cable is about the only thing he could cut. DH isn't much of a spender, per se. He doesn't have a gym membership, never has. He's not that kind of guy. He drives a very cheap car, and bought it for the purpose of saving money and economizing. His phone is the cheapest plan available.

He does eat out more than he/we should, and that is something I could maybe get him to cut.

He's mostly into video games and tv. He has his gaming system already and to my knowledge doesn't spend a lot of money on that.

Cable would save us and I'm willing - more than willing, actually, more like hoping - to cut it, but tv is sacred to DH.

Cutting back on child care was a real money saver, and it was something I did deliberately to get a head a few months ago. Yeah, it's biting me every time work gets busy, but it certainly does cut down on expenses.

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by scottishmommy

The impression I get is that he is a lazy, grumpy, middle man who will never really amount to much in life. He just sort of goes along with the status quo and isn't particularly interesting or ambitious. He also seem excessively controlling, hypercritical and a pretty lousy father. Is that what you think about your husband? And if so, how do you think that makes him feel?

Well, you hit some things on the head. Lazy (around the house). Or let me amend that, careless would be a better way to describe him. He just doesn't really care that much. Grumpy? Yeah, if he doesn't get his way and doesn't get to sit. Middle man? Yep. Never really amount to much? Yeah, he's very status quo. Not a loser, but definitely not ambitious or adventurous. He's sort of routine, sort of gets on a track, and stays on it, no matter what. A positive way to say that would be to call him steadfast.

He's not particularly interesting or ambitious.

But he's actually not controlling nor a lousy father. He's clueless sure, and he's sort of disconnected a lot of the time, but he gets engaged with a little prompting, and sometimes on his own. And he's not controlling. Not at all. He's very hands off. He'd much rather I handle everything.

As long as I work and can pay for it. That doesn't make him controlling through. He just knows his own ability to provide isn't something he really wants to work hard for or strive for...he's not going to break a sweat, you know? It would get in the way of his routine and coasting and taking it easy.

But to all other matters, he's very hands off. Doesn't even flicker on his radar, which is why I get so upset most of the time. It's like he's present but not really.

I don't know...I used to think he had Asperger's. I don't know if he does or not, but I see so many symptoms. And whether it's Asperger's or not, the signs he exhibits are very hard for me to deal with.

[MountainRose]

Haven't Read the Book

But I think it depends on each Mama's situation. I'm sure the book is probably a good one, but don't really want to read anything that causes any guilt.
I know that when I try to be career oriented our family life suffers.
I am good at the career part, but have decided for the time being that it is not worth the stress to our family makeup.
Our income level isn't the highest, but overall I think it is the best for our family.
To the original writer with possible doubts -- I do hope the best for you.
I think women have many hard decisions as parents today. Thankfully the majority of us (on this site) are not starving or in a war zone.
I think God has given each of us a conscience - a special mama sense if you will. And Mama's do know what is best for our families.
For me, sometimes feelings of doubt have just been silly worries, but sometimes they have been feelings that have pushed me to look deeper and find a solution.
I think the statement I just made is what makes us all special as women...being able to meet emotional and physical needs of our situations through our special Mama/Women senses.
And on that note I think men are good/awesome people too!

I truly wish you all the best and hope that your situation is one that you find peace and well being in for a long long long time!

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

Well, you hit some things on the head. Lazy (around the house). Or let me amend that, careless would be a better way to describe him. He just doesn't really care that much. Grumpy? Yeah, if he doesn't get his way and doesn't get to sit. Middle man? Yep. Never really amount to much? Yeah, he's very status quo. Not a loser, but definitely not ambitious or adventurous. He's sort of routine, sort of gets on a track, and stays on it, no matter what. A positive way to say that would be to call him steadfast.

He's not particularly interesting or ambitious.

But he's actually not controlling nor a lousy father. He's clueless sure, and he's sort of disconnected a lot of the time, but he gets engaged with a little prompting, and sometimes on his own. And he's not controlling. Not at all. He's very hands off. He'd much rather I handle everything.

As long as I work and can pay for it. That doesn't make him controlling through. He just knows his own ability to provide isn't something he really wants to work hard for or strive for...he's not going to break a sweat, you know? It would get in the way of his routine and coasting and taking it easy.

But to all other matters, he's very hands off. Doesn't even flicker on his radar, which is why I get so upset most of the time. It's like he's present but not really.

I don't know...I used to think he had Asperger's. I don't know if he does or not, but I see so many symptoms. And whether it's Asperger's or not, the signs he exhibits are very hard for me to deal with.

Maybe the person who is handling most everything, the person who to whom most of the burden of responsibility is falling to, the person whose life is most effected, should get the majority of decision power?

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by journeymom

Maybe the person who is handling most everything, the person who to whom most of the burden of responsibility is falling to, the person whose life is most effected, should get the majority of decision power?

Well, in a perfect world and perfect parenting partnership, I would set the goal to be equal decision making power.

But, you know what? In our reality (DH's and mine) DH has always deferred to me. I am the person with the majority of the decision making power.

I mean, I basically handle the finances and always have for the most part. He makes purchases I don't always know about, but I handle the bills and see the income and manage the household expenses (with the exception of cable, which I have no control over we have or not because that is a crucial thing for DH).

I make pretty much all decisions related to child rearing. Again, DH lets me by default, I guess, because he really isn't tha passionate for one, and he also doesn't want to read up on things, and he also doesn't like to have to ask questions of people like doctors, or teachers. He'd rather just not do it. I've seen him go int to "talk" to a doctor or a teacher many times and he doesn't say a word. It's just not his personality. So, again, I'm default in charge because otherwise no one would ask the needed questions or do the needed reading, etc.

It's a frustrating point in our lives, though. I used to try (for years and years) to engage DH but he always had a blank look on his face...he's just not that interested...and to get him away from video games, sci fi, his collections, tv was just too difficult. It's a little easier now because I've made a point that he can't be that way as much anymore, but truly it's the world where he likes to be.

If DH is mad about things, he'll call me "controlling." But when he's not mad about something he makes it clear he has no idea, he isn't interested, and he just wants me to handle things so he doesn't have to. That is his personality.

...save one issue. The SAH versus work issue. See, DH just DOES NOT want to have the responsibility of being the sole provider of money and benefits on him. He also looks at it as a burden...a burden he wants to share. He often says that he didn't marry a woman who wanted to be a SAHM and he chose that deliberately.

So, that's how it works here...and that's why I feel overtaxed, but, yes, I'm making the majority of decisions. Just not the work / home decisions or the division of labor decisions, which is really more about will anyway. I can't choose for DH to pitch in more. He has to make that choice himself.

[nina_yyc]

I've seen your threads on parents as partners and I can't remember what point you're at...are you wanting to continue this marriage or are you just waiting for a good time to get out? Asking because you make your relationship sound like one big chore of a negotiation and if that's what my relationship was like, and I wanted to stay married, my first priority would be to reconnect. Figuring out the logistics of family life is difficult enough when you start out liking each other.

[bobandjess99]

You know. I would just say that that is one story. And for every Liz Gilbert who feels like she is the person she is because her mom chose to SAH, there is probably another person who will say she feels like she is the person she is because her mother chose to WOH.
One persons experience is just that...one persons experience.