"I don't like you"

[sgmom]

My daughter (16 months) usually plays very nicely, but she has one friend (a boy) who is 3 months younger than her, that she just seems to not like at all. He's always in her face, wanting what she has, and I think she just doesn't like him. He's a good kid, and he's not VERY grabby with toys (no more than your average 13 month old), but he just seems to always want what she has. If she's sitting on the floor with a book, he will crawl on the book and sit on it. Or he will forcefully try to flip the page. This would upset me too, so I can't really blame her to getting upset.

Anyway, she's starting to get a little unwilling to share with her other friends now, I assume in fear that they're all going to take things away from her.

I fully appreciate the fact that she doesn't like this one child, but his mom and I are good friends and her unwillingness to allow him to interact with her (and getting mad at him when he gets in her space) needs to stop. She doesn't have to like him, or even play with him, but I don't really like the way she's starting to act towards him.

Part of the problem (I think) is that she is (always has been) VERY strong willed. And while she usually is very willing to give things over to us, there are times when we have to physically take something away from her, and she will fight (with all she has) to hang on to it. We NEVER rip it out of her hands, but instead just hold the object and gently coax her to release it. Once she does, she'll throw a 3 second tantrum ("I'm MAD!"), and that's it. No tears, no screaming, she just expresses her anger and moves on (then we can explain why we had to take it away and offer her something else). She seems fine with this, but I can't help but wonder if there's a connection.

Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with this? I have some ideas of my own, but I'd like to hear what you all have to say as well.

[Kailey's mom]

what we did: I went to the thrift shop and picked out toys that are specifically "sharing toys" I even picked out toys I know my dd has no interest in, that way there would be no problem with her not sharing If the kids start fighting over a certain toy, that toy goes in timeout on top of the fridge. I also allow her to "hide" certain toys before the other kids come over, her favorties, and lovies.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by sgmom

Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with this? I have some ideas of my own, but I'd like to hear what you all have to say as well.

Get together without the babies for a few months?

Keep them separated while they are together?

They are both babies, and will outgrow these behaviors in the next year. I'd focus on distraction and proactively keeping them apart for now.

[tbone_kneegrabber]

3 months is a HUGE difference at that age. My ds and my bff's ds are 4 months apart and now at 2.5 and a little over 2 they can finally play together well. It was always better when we were on neutral territory, the park, a museum, the zoo, a resturant etc. Then they seemed to get along, but at my house or their house it always seemed like they were getting on each other's nerves.

They also have very different styles of play and so it was hard when they were younger to figure out how to help them interact with each other. Most of the time I just sat on the floor with them and tried to make sure they weren't fighting.

But I would suggest neutral locations as the best "fix"

[One_Girl]

I suggest picking her up and moving her or trying to distract the little boy with something else. My dd was into sharing until about that age. After that she was less distractable and she figured out that she didn't need to share if she clung to her toy and refused to let go, she also started developing preferences for her toys and seemed to realize they were her toys at this age. I think you should stop having playdates if she spends a lot of time upset, she isn't at the age where she will really care one way or another. If she doesn't seem to be upset by the taking of toys then I think you should let the kids work things out and only intervene if someone is upset or if it looks like someone is going to get hurt.

[sgmom]

Wow, such quick advice!

We do try to keep them separated, but he follows her around (he LOVES her). I've also tried sitting with her on the floor to help her learn to not be possessive with her toys, and to also help him not climb on her when he's trying to play (he's JUST BARELY walking, so he often uses her body to help pull himself up, or as a support for not falling - which she's somewhat okay with - it's the toy "in her face" situation that she gets mad about). I also put all her special toys away when he comes over.

When we go to their house, he tends to keep off of her much more (her toys are much more interesting than his own), but we have to keep them in a play yard because my friend is doing construction on her entire house. My daughter is NOT used to being kept confined, so I have to either sit inside the play area with her, or carry her around.

Having visits without the children is not possible as we're both the primary caregivers (dads both work long hours).

It's not a big concern, although I can see it in the way she's starting to play with other kids that it could be if I don't address it.

I often sit with her, and sort of "protect" her when he tries to climb on her by helping him back off, as well as teaching them how to share... Perhaps I should talk to his mother about sitting with us and helping HIM more, rather than my doing it for her? She does interfere, but usually only when he gets really grabby. She tends to not do much when he gets in her face...

I can't say I blame her at all for being annoyed. I would feel the same way.

[pauletoy]

They are both babies. You may be expecting too much from either of them. Of course a 13 month old is going to snatch toys and get in another babies face. He is probably just thrilled to see someone his size. It is also perfectly normal for your 16 month old not to like it. I think you gave yourself the best advise and you should ask the other mother to sit on the floor with you.

Don't worry this phase will end soon enough then you will have a whole other set of social problems to navigate.

[mamazee]

In the baby-to-toddler continuum, 16 months is WAY beyond 13 months. It's a huge difference. It's normal for them to find things more interesting when they see other people playing with them, so it makes sense that he wants to play with what she has. It isn't about what it is. It's just because she's playing with it. You could start playing with something else to make it look interesting. Really, distraction is the biggest thing. He might not care that much specifically what he plays with. But then when you play with something, it'll look more interesting to her too and that can cause them to fight over what toy you're distracting with.

Is this not her first child? I think a lot of people relax a lot more with toddler interaction when it isn't their first. When we look at what's happening with our grown up perspective, it looks different than I think it feels to them. They have no social graces or patience and they show every emotion 100%, but they get over these toddler interaction issues quickly too so I dont' think they're distraught.

I would worry less about it. She isn't acting like she doesn't like him or possessive as much as she's just acting like a toddler. She'll outgrow it. And then he'll go through it. I imagine it might very well overlap for a while. I'd just distract.

[sgmom]

mamazee: This is her first, and unlike myself, she has has NO prior experience with children whatsoever. She's a very loving mother, but I find that she dotes on him CONSTANTLY. She's very interested in the type of parenting that I do with my own daughter, but right now she's feeling frustrated and has told me that she feels that they shouldn't play together for a while because she doesn't want him learning how to be greedy with his toys. Unfortunately though, he has NO other social interaction with kids, so I suggested that we begin to attend playgroups together, if even on a casual basis. My daughter has no other problems playing with other kids... it's JUST him.

That said, I'm really not that worried. There is the idea that it might develop into a problem behavior later, but I'm more concerned about this one particular situation with her friend, than I am about the specific behavior.

It's also possible that she's picking up my friends nervous vibe. You're right though. I do need to relax about it.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by sgmom

I do need to relax about it.

Yes, relax! Totally typical todder stuff. No biggie.

It's not a big deal that a 13 mo has no experience with other children. When he is older, he will learn socially appropriate behavior much more easily than he will at 13 mo.

I'd probably do things together that limits the time the kids play with toys on the floor together. Walk the mall with strollers/carriers, meet for coffee at places with highchairs/snacks, etc. Get creative and just avoid the scenarios that cause conflict between the littles. The dynamic between them will be completely different in a year or so.

[Luke's mama]

That's interesting that your friend is worried about her son learning to be greedy about his toys his he plays with your DD--I really thought that all children were naturally like that (well, I wouldn't use the word "greedy," but disinclined to share!) and only learned to share around age 3? I have read that before a certain age, the best you can hope for is for toddlers to play along side each other (each doing his or her own thing) without fighting, but actually sharing and cooperation only comes later.

[sgmom]

She's a first time mom, so when she told me that she was thinking of not letting them play for a while, I suggested that rather than protecting him from her worries about learning not to share, to start bringing him to regular play groups with other children. On top of that, she needs to step in and help teach her son that this person he's trying to play with, doesn't like the way that he's climbing all over her trying to take all her toys away. My daughter is a lot like myself. She's quite independent and is not okay with just anyone climbing into her bubble.

What I see happening is VERY normal for this age. What isn't normal, is the way my daughter interacts with him, in comparison to the way she plays with other kids. She's GREAT at sharing, and loves to play with other kids. But she really seems to want nothing to do with him, and I'm okay with that. What I'm having a hard time with is teaching her that while it's okay to not want to play with someone (by maybe moving to another location of the room), it's not okay to hoard all your toys so he can't play with them either. It's like she sees him coming and she takes as much as she can and runs away with it so he can't have it. Then of course he follows her and tried to take everything she has, and she gets upset. As well she should!

I am trying to remember that she is only 16 months old so I need to use a gentle technique to help her deal with this in a less frustrated way. I'm just not sure what the best way to do that would be.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by sgmom

What I see happening is VERY normal for this age. What isn't normal, is the way my daughter interacts with him, in comparison to the way she plays with other kids. She's GREAT at sharing, and loves to play with other kids. But she really seems to want nothing to do with him, and I'm okay with that. What I'm having a hard time with is teaching her that while it's okay to not want to play with someone (by maybe moving to another location of the room), it's not okay to hoard all your toys so he can't play with them either. It's like she sees him coming and she takes as much as she can and runs away with it so he can't have it. Then of course he follows her and tried to take everything she has, and she gets upset. As well she should!

Are you sure this isn't an infant game that she likes to play with him and you? Maybe she liked having him follow her and look at the toys but your reaction encouraged her to make a fuss about it so she could get your attention. It may also be that kids play with different kids in different ways and that for some reason your daughter doesn't like this kid and so she pulls all of her toys to her and refuses any interaction. Young kids tend to exclude people they don't like from play in many different ways. Since your child is only a baby and not at the stage where cooperative play is an interest I think you should stop subjecting the little boy to her exclusion. Quite frankly, I think your friend is the one doing the right thing by not making a big deal out of this, her son is trying to play and your child hogs all of the toys and you are both trying to actively exclude him from play while telling the mom something is wrong with what she is doing. You are the person who needs to address that by either helping your child share or stopping the play dates. If you want to only be around people who micromanage their kids plays then go along with her suggestion to not get together for a while.

[2cutiekitties]

^^^^^ yeah that!

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by sgmom

What I'm having a hard time with is teaching her that while it's okay to not want to play with someone (by maybe moving to another location of the room), it's not okay to hoard all your toys so he can't play with them either.

This is not a 16 mo concept. You are expecting too much.

When she is 3-5 yo, she'll begin to be able to grasp this. But, when she is 3-5, she might not get upset if a 13 mo takes her toy. She might just enjoy giving the "baby" toys and have fun with it.

They are babies acting like babies. Set them up for success (don't put them on the floor together with toys), and redirect them when the issue occurs.

[sgmom]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Are you sure this isn't an infant game that she likes to play with him and you? Maybe she liked having him follow her and look at the toys but your reaction encouraged her to make a fuss about it so she could get your attention. It may also be that kids play with different kids in different ways and that for some reason your daughter doesn't like this kid and so she pulls all of her toys to her and refuses any interaction. Young kids tend to exclude people they don't like from play in many different ways. Since your child is only a baby and not at the stage where cooperative play is an interest I think you should stop subjecting the little boy to her exclusion. Quite frankly, I think your friend is the one doing the right thing by not making a big deal out of this, her son is trying to play and your child hogs all of the toys and you are both trying to actively exclude him from play while telling the mom something is wrong with what she is doing. You are the person who needs to address that by either helping your child share or stopping the play dates. If you want to only be around people who micromanage their kids plays then go along with her suggestion to not get together for a while.

Was I not clear in my other posts?

Thanks for all the advice!