Grandparent discussion.

[mysticmomma]

Some background here

So, when I told them, FIL was mostly silent, and MIL had a few questions. She asked what we don't like about public school. Our main reasons are faith/morals that are not present in the public school systems, the amount of time spent there, and (this may seem silly) the fact that you have to ask to use the bathroom. Our other reasons FOR homeschooling (not really against public school) we didn't talk about include freedom from schedules, a dislike of artificial learning environments, and most importantly a belief that we can facilitate our childrens learning better than any institution.

Anyhow... today at church, FIL told DH that he wanted to set a time to talk to talk about the school thing. DH thinks FIL is going to offer to pay for private school. This is also not what we want. I'm not interested in being part of a school system. It's not just that we don't like public school, it's that homeschooling is what is right for us. Help me get ready for this conversation.

I do not want to be defensive. I do not want to shut them down. I know the results will speak for themselves. They won't put that money to something else. This isn't about boundaries, either. I appreciate their thoughts and ideas.

[Jenelle]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

and (this may seem silly) the fact that you have to ask to use the bathroom.

This isn't silly. My son was in public school from K-2. A "great" one. Poor kid peed his pants in the line in library, because he didn't think he was "allowed" to go at that time. Didn't tell anyone, rode the bus home like that, and I noticed it as soon as I leaned down to give him a hug when he came home. I explained to him that he needs to just GO. I said, let us deal with the teachers, if you have any trouble -- I don't care, you just GO if you need to GO! The next year, (right before we pulled him out of school), he came home telling me that he had had a substitute teacher that day, and that he had ALMOST peed his pants, because he kept raising his hand and she kept motioning for him to put his hand down. Again, I urged him to just GET UP AND GO. But they are so used to having to follow all these rules, and he was so scared to be singled out and disciplined, that he just sat there through ALL of Science and panicked about how he was ABOUT to pee his pants.

(Okay, vent over.)

Another thing is being able to eat when they are hungry. My son was having what seemed to be like hypoglycemia (toward the end before we took him out)... Ate a great breakfast, but by the time he got to lunch, he felt so bad that he couldn't eat much. Then had to go the rest of the day and couldn't eat again until he came home. By the time we caught on that this is what had been happening (since no one had called us when he went to the nurse's office multiple times ), he had developed such anxiety about not feeling good at school, that we just ended up taking him out. We went through a week of trying to get him to go back to school, talked with the teacher, reassured him that he could have a granola bar for a snack or whatever, but we just could not get past it.

My point is: There are SO many reasons why people choose to homeschool. None of them are too small, or silly, IMO. They all add up to one great big decision.

I remembered your thread from the past, before I even went to the link. I am happy for you that you have made it this far: telling them. As far as this upcoming conversation... What, exactly, are you looking for from us? Like, more reasons to give them? Just reassurance that it will all be okay?

[mysticmomma]

I have some word retrieval issues, and at times of stress, it really comes out. If I have some ideas of what to say (if infact it is an offer to pay for private school), it usually goes much better. I know it will be ok. The conversation will be fine. There will be tons of respect, etc. I guess what I'm wondering here (aside from mostly venting/thinking outloud) is if you would turn down private school (for free), why? What would you say to the people offering?

[LuxPerpetua]

We've dealt with some hostility from grandparents and our child is not even school-aged yet (although preschool seems to be just as "expected" as traditional school.

If you think that FIL is going to offer to pay for private schooling, I think it's a good idea to know how you are going to respond. I am always so thankful when I have prep time before difficult conversations because then I don't get that deer in headlights, every rational thought just flew out of my brain, look. What I've done that has worked well is to try and appreciate the good in what people are trying to do, instead of focusing on being defensive. (As I said, this only works if I have had time to prep--otherwise I go straight into defensive mode.) Ideally this would be my response: to look them in the eyes and say, "You know, I really appreciate that you love our child so much . . . I really do. Your offer is so generous and kind, and we definitely appreciate the love behind it. However, we have spent many hours in coming to our decision to homeschool, and we feel this is the right decision for our family at this time. If we feel that it isn't working out, then we'll explore other options." I personally would not list out every reason for why you have chosen to homeschool--it becomes a laundry list, a vent session, a chance for things to go off-course, a chance for hurt feelings to surface, AND, most importantly, it becomes open to discussion, which isn't really what you want, I think. If they ask for specific reasons, I'd try and have some in my head to bring up (fear of bullies, lack of one-on-one supervision, illnesses, whatever), but I wouldn't offer them unless specifically asked.

You asked if I would turn down money for private schooling, and the answer would be "without question." We have chosen homeschooling because we dislike institutionalized schooling, and that reason alone renders any type of schooling moot.

I wish you the best on your conversation. I hope you will let us know how things turn out!

[zeldamomma]

If you're right, could your dh thank him for the generous offer, but say "we are excited about homeschooling and want to give it a try."

My go to phrase for concerned relatives is "if homeschooling isn't working, we'll do something else."

GL!

ZM

[elanorh]

I think especially for your MIL, it will be hard for her not to take this at least a little personally. My step-MIL is also a teacher. She's struggled with our decision, and while she is an absolute angel and doesn't say anything really -- I know that she feels a little 'off' over this. She and FIL did a lot of talking casually about what great schools the local schools were etc. while we were deciding what we wanted to do (we were open from the beginning that we were debating public, private, and homeschool).

If your IL's heard that your big reasons are faith/morals, too much time at school, and kids not being able to just go to the bathroom, it's entirely possible that they think that a good private school (Montessori or religious) would be the perfect solution for you guys while still relieving their concerns about 'homeschool' and a good education.

So --- you summarized your other concerns in your post

freedom from schedules, a dislike of artificial learning environments, and most importantly a belief that we can facilitate our childrens learning better than any institution

You and your dh need to think about how to present and discuss these concerns with FIL -- and MIL. It might help to be able to give them some of the research you've read, etc. to refer to.

With our family, we took the approach that this was
A. Flexibility/schedules (we travel alot, not compatible with any school's attendance policy).
B. Wanting the best education possible for our kids.
C. Absolutely not wanting our kids to be 'taught towards the test.'

.... I think that both our families are hoping/expecting that we will switch into the local private school at some point. And maybe we will. But right now we're loving homeschooling. BTW we didn't get curriculum figured out, so ended up going with k12 Virtual Academy, which also I think somewhat reassured stepMIL that we were following a 'real' curriculum. Although FIL did share an article he'd read about low test scores for virtual academy students on the standardized test scores.

[mattemma04]

Best thing would be for dh to tell them no need to set up a time to discuss this *issue*,because it is not up for discussion....you were telling them what you plan to do no ask for permission. The end.

With so many different schooling options to choose from these days we have the ability to really find something that fits the NEEDS of our children.I wish I had that when I was a kid.I begged my mom to stay home.School was hell.

If you relent and put your kids in school like I did you will have a heck of a time getting them out.We have had issues with bullying,boredom,falling through the cracks in certain educational areas,and yet family still thinks *being in a school* is best.How crazy is that???Atleast private has been better than public,but still a waste imo.

If you really have to discuss this then change it from what you don't like about public school to why you like home school for your child.
Our in-laws currently pay for the kids to attend a montessori school while dh continues to push public school.I think about what cool educational stuff I could buy for the kids with that 10k and sigh.

Best wishes to you!!!!

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

I guess what I'm wondering here (aside from mostly venting/thinking outloud) is if you would turn down private school (for free), why? What would you say to the people offering?

I would turn down private school because it doesn't matter to us what kind of school we're talking about--we didn't want to use any school system. We wanted to be free to explore the world at large and not be tied to a classroom, we wanted to be close as a family, we didn't want to be part of the system of schooling and have our lives structured around the school's requirements and schedule.

I'd focus on what you want for your kids that school can't offer. One of my parents suggested private school for ds1 when we told them we were hsing--they didn't get that we objected to school itself and not just specific things about THAT school. If you agree, then I wouldn't go into the conversation with your il's talking about class size or hours of instruction, because that leaves you open to their suggesting other schools.

I would thank them for their generous offer, and just explain that we'd already made the decision to hs. I would give them information, but not defend the choice.

Originally Posted by mattemma04

Best thing would be for dh to tell them no need to set up a time to discuss this *issue*,because it is not up for discussion....you were telling them what you plan to do no ask for permission. The end.

If my parents (or in-laws) had asked for a meeting, we would have had to do this as well. It's hard for me not to see this as a boundary issue. I mean, If one of my parents told me they were moving, or changing jobs or had made another big decision, I can't imagine telling them I wanted to set up a time to discuss their decision with them. Maybe it's just my family dynamics, but it sounds confrontational to me. :

[mysticmomma]

Best thing would be for dh to tell them no need to set up a time to discuss this *issue*,because it is not up for discussion....you were telling them what you plan to do no ask for permission. The end.

Sorry, but this is not helpful. What I have been trying to convey is that we have a wonderful, mutually respectful relationship. DH and I value the experience that our parents have to offer. It is up for discussion. Not in the sense that they can persuade us, bribe us or change our minds (and they wouldn't try). We genuinely have an interest in what they have to say. We are better parents because of their insights.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

Sorry, but this is not helpful. What I have been trying to convey is that we have a wonderful, mutually respectful relationship. DH and I value the experience that our parents have to offer. It is up for discussion. Not in the sense that they can persuade us, bribe us or change our minds (and they wouldn't try). We genuinely have an interest in what they have to say. We are better parents because of their insights.

What would be helpful? Do you want recommendations of books to give them?

I'm trying to understand that you have this wonderful relationship with your ILs but it doesn't mesh with what you're saying-- why would they offer to pay for private school, if you've told them you want to homeschool? Why are you so uncomfortable with the conversation? All of this suggests to me that this relationship isn't respectful of you, but you say it is, and so it's hard for me to know what you're looking for.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

Sorry, but this is not helpful. What I have been trying to convey is that we have a wonderful, mutually respectful relationship. DH and I value the experience that our parents have to offer. It is up for discussion. Not in the sense that they can persuade us, bribe us or change our minds (and they wouldn't try). We genuinely have an interest in what they have to say. We are better parents because of their insights.

In that case- if they come and offer to pay for private school, I'd turn it down, but be more clear about why you are homeschooling. Tell them reasons that can't be met in a group, all day school environment. I might consider having some suggestions for things that they can fund to improve homeschooling- museum memberships, dance classes, art classes, that type of thing. They might like the idea of some group learning activities, and that way you can redirect them into something positive for everyone.

[mysticmomma]

Well, I think the biggest thing is that they seem to think we're just against public school, and thats not it. It's ANY school system. I can see them thinking, oh they can't afford private school, so we'll pay for it. At first they thought I chose to use a sling because strollers were so expensive, so they bought us a big ass travel system! It took awhile for them to understand with time that I chose it because it was easier for me and better for the kids. I don't need to give them studies or books to read... they can certainly find that info on their own.

Why are you so uncomfortable with the conversation?

Alison summed it up pretty well.

I am always so thankful when I have prep time before difficult conversations because then I don't get that deer in headlights, every rational thought just flew out of my brain, look.

I have neurological issues that come out in times of stress, and I don't want to sit there unable to retrieve words and sound like a moron. I guess I can always just listen and thank them and use the, "you've given us something to think about, we'll get back to you."

[haleyelianasmom]

We're having grandparent issues as well and we haven't even told my in-laws we're homeschooling. Both grandmas are public school teachers. My mom is offended and thinks that unless we have a strict schedule with real curriculum and other kids of the same age group every single day that we are just falling short. My MIL is retiring this year and has been complaining about the school system a lot, but when I start stating that I am also worried, she says that dd will be fine because she's smart and likes to learn. So I really don't know how the in-laws will take it, but I'm guess they won't like it one bit. (I mentioned this in the pre-school thread as well. it's very frustrating to me). I can see my in-law offering to pay for private school, but maybe not after we told them how much Montessori is here

I don't think those reasons are silly at all. i like being with my daughter and even though we aren't hsing for religious reasons, I will say that i don't like some of the other moral/ethical standards in school. I don't like the competition and slant towards consumerism. I don't like the ways kids are measured up in every way. And you're right, the bathroom thing is an issue. When I was real little my teacher kept telling me I COULD go to the bathroom, but the big kids were there and they wouldn't be happy. I asked a few times, but she had the same answer every time. you can guess how that ended...

I'd suggest pointing them towards a book (I have my mom reading Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense which I enjoyed. It isn't religiously slanted at all, but gives some good reasons for homeschooling). And be open to having a discussion. I get especially frustrated when discussing this with my mom because i get the whole "I've been a teacher for years and have a Master's in education, so I would know" thing. not that she outwardly says that, but she does have definite ideas and my dad brings up her experience and education in discussion all the time.

It is hard when family is not supportive. i just hope that fast forward 15 years and they all be singing homeschooling praises for how wonderfully our kids turned out. Either that or they'll think they somehow turned out okay in spite of it...


ETA: I wanted to add that 1) I really also want there to be a mutual understanding between the grandparents and us, but I get the feeling we are just not going to see eye-to-eye. But I totally get what you are saying about valuing their opinion. 2) I organize my thoughts better in writing. Would writing a letter (or even prewriting your reasons) help?

[MyCalling]

If they offer to pay for private school, ask them to pay for things that will contribute to the kids' homeschooling experience like museum memberships, educational games, a kids computer, community activities or something. They will see you are going to add educational things and actually have a plan they can contribute to. You can think of each in-laws' strengths and ask them to teach the kids about that topic/subject. History, science experiments, arts and crafts, cooking. Grandparents are more secure if they can see or know they contributed something they know to be educational (or social, when homeschooling).

Good luck! I'm also horrible when put on the spot about my parenting decisions.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

I have some word retrieval issues, and at times of stress, it really comes out. If I have some ideas of what to say (if infact it is an offer to pay for private school), it usually goes much better. I know it will be ok. The conversation will be fine. There will be tons of respect, etc. I guess what I'm wondering here (aside from mostly venting/thinking outloud) is if you would turn down private school (for free), why? What would you say to the people offering?

They probably don't know that you WANT to homeschool, only the reasons you won't put your child into public school. So, once they know your plans to homeschool and that it's a choice you're making (not one being made for you), they'll probably be fine. It sounds like they're trying to be helpful and that your relationship is good.

So, I'd thank them for their offer and let them know that you are very excited about homeschooling. Homeschooling can be expensive, so maybe ask them to contribute to some lessons (music, swimming, gymnastics, art, etc.) or museum/zoo memberships or bookclubs, magazine subscriptions.

[phoebemommy]

In planning what to say, I think what you said here is a good way to start your argument:

"Well, I think the biggest thing is that they seem to think we're just against public school, and thats not it. It's ANY school system."

That's really what they need to hear. There is just no point in letting the conversation be anything about school, because it's irrelevant. You might go from there into ideas of self-directed learning and exploration, open structure (the ability to work on one subject for the whole day, etc.), apprenticeship learning, open-source learning, etc.

I always need to have an idea of what I'm going to say, too, when it's important. My big problem, especially with MIL, is that when I'm talking she responds in some way that shows she clearly missed the point, and then my mind shuts down.

[Smithie]

I tend to agree with the PP who said that you should decline to "set up" some sort of formal roundtable discussion about HSing. It's not necessary. It's not appropriate. You are the ones who make decisions for your kids, period full stop end of story. There's nothing to discuss. It's not like you'll call them up and scream "NO, I refuse to discuss this!" and slam down the phone - just don't set up a meeting.

But that doesn't mean that you don't share your enthusiasm for your new undertaking! Since you are so close to your MIL, TALK TO HER about your sense of relief and freedom from something that wasn't working out, your curriculum choices, the extracurriculars you hope to do, etc. Salt your phone calls with phrases like "We're so excited about this!" and "DS will be so much better off out of the system!" and "I can't believe it took me so long to come up with us!" and "DD is so excited to be starting This Cool Thing!" and "DS has already finished his math book and it's only November! He is making such great progress!"

This is not "shutting them down." This is ordinary, healthy boundary-setting between adult children and their beloved and respected parents. It's just not relevant to the grandparental role for them to hash out the nitty-gritty details of your decision to homeschool.

[mysticmomma]

I WANT to talk to them about it. Why are some posters having such a hard time grasping that point?!

[dannic]

I would love to have convo about it with my IL's as well. (I was HSed so don't need to with my parents). Big educational backgrounds...very big into academia.
I agree with explaining your reasons FOR hsing; why you're so excited about it, and ask them how they'd like to be a part of it. (Would Gma like to do a baking class? Art? Science? What's her thing?) Stuff like that...

[Smithie]

And you SHOULD talk to them about it! I'm saying, don't have some kind of formal family meeting about it. Your job is not to convince or appease - on this or any other parenting issue. Your job is to be a proud and happy homeschooling mama, and to share your enthusiasm for your calling with the ALL the people in your life who are interested in what's going on with your children.

I really do think there's a power-shift going on here that is a big deal to the grandparents in a way that it's not a big deal to you. They have paid for preschool. Your kids have gone to the preschool of their choice. They have been involved in the preschooling process to the extent that they are aware of re-enrollment dates and that they feel free to, um, discuss and strategize over dinner with their friends about how to influence the course of YOUR children's education.

Nobody's done anything wrong here. But if you are going to homeschool, being assertive and confident about it right from the get-go is going to save you major hassle in the long run. If they offer to pay tuition at a private school, just thank them sincerely for their generosity and tell them that you prefer to homeschool. If they don't offer, then - there's no reason to worry! Keep doing what you're doing, you seem very confident that HSing is the right choice!