Do you believe in God? - Page 3

[Daffodil]

I don't believe in God. Why would I? If I had been raised on a remote island somewhere among people who never brought up the idea of God, I'm sure it would never have occurred to me to imagine such a thing, let alone believe in it. Other than people saying God exists, and books claiming to tell about him, there are no signs of God anywhere. How many believers would have the same beliefs they do if they hadn't read or heard about those beliefs somewhere?

Now if you want to say that God is just a word for the thing or force that caused the universe to exist, or for the joy and beauty that seem to be part of the universe - okay, that's something I can believe in. But I don't see any reason to give it a special name, or develop ceremonies or rituals to worship it, or to imagine that it's male, or has a son called Jesus, or the power to send me to heaven or hell, or responds to prayer, or wants me to go to church on Sunday, or wants or feels anything at all.

[meemee]

what was it that einstein said - “There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can live as if everything is a miracle.”

i cant help but choose the second way. now that i am studying the sciences - the existence of 'something' - no matter what you name it, makes sense. or just has to. when i see the mathematical numbers in artichoke and pine cone are the same my breath is taken away.

when i imagine that i started as one cell and became who i am today - i cant help but believe.

when i look under a electron microscope and see moss - the both parts of the plant and the teenie tiny creatures inside - my inside just rejoices at the miracle of life and whoever created it. i am reduced to tears.

what is so funny (and this comes from reading the texts) is that in all the major religious texts taht i have read - the basic tennents are the same - just culturally different. and yet we choose to interpret it and live a different life. for instance we accept some part of the texts as true and yet reject or ignore another idea. so all the strife i feel is man-made and does not change my own idea of existence of God.

i have felt God more in nature than in a 'church' or text.

[Teenytoona]

As far as I'm concerned, the Divine does exist. It manifests to different people in different ways.

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

How many believers would have the same beliefs they do if they hadn't read or heard about those beliefs somewhere?

Actually, I think a lot of people join a group or religion because it reinforces something they already think to be true. My ideas about this thin/thick connection and re-incarnation (or lack of) developed at a very young age. In HS I defined myself as an atheist because I didn't believe in the God of my childhood bibe (old man in the sky type of thing) but then one lonely Easter I went to this church all by myself where I knew no one (weird set of coincidences there) and they preached what I thought. It was like coming home.

Since then I've learned a lot more about Buddhism and I can define what I think relative to that but truly I would have the same beliefs even if my church didn't. They pre-dated me finding this church.

[bluebirdiemama]

Originally Posted by LavenderMae

You absolutely do not have to believe a god exist to think people have inherent value, no god necessary for that no matter what anyone wants to believe. Atheist who believe that are not just fooling themselves the ideas are not mutually exclusive. Getting information about atheist on an evangelist Christian website (that focuses their evangelism on skeptics and free thinkers at that) is probably not the best idea if you are actually wanting to know truthfully how atheist feel (and it's very individual since being an atheist only means one doesn't believe in the existence of a god/s).

I'm not trying to offend any one and I am not saying only people who believe in a god believe in intrinsic value. I'm sure a lot of atheists do believe in intrinsic value, but what I am saying is that the believe itself in that value is not consistent, at all, with darwinism.
Intrinsic value, by definition, is something that cannot be separated ffrom the person. It is not something that could have evolved over time. So where does it come from if not a god? Not the government, because then it could be taken away. Not from some people, because it wouldn't be recognized by the others.

[umsami]

I do believe in God, I didn't always. When I was in my teens, I thought I was too smart to believe in God. Then one day, sitting in my apartment in college, I was staring at this leaf on this tree outside of my window. It may sound weird... but just contemplating that leaf... what an amazing structure it is.... and then thinking about other things... that was it for me. I believed in some sort of higher power/God/etc. As I took more science classes, more anatomy classes. my belief increased. The body, nature, life... it's just too amazingly complex to be random IMHO.

I've had numerous answers to prayers... and some really weird obscure ones. I have, on occasion, felt the presence of God.. or of the Holy Spirit...or however you want to call it.

Even though I'm a Muslim, I can't say with utter confidence that Islam is the way.... the only way.... that God is somehow happier with Muslims than people of other faiths...or even agnostics. It works for me. I do believe that there are some basic truths/principles that all religions...going back to the Goddess faiths even...as well as many societies have in common. I believe in a "just" God...and a merciful God... which means that although I believe God's mercy is limitless, I don't believe that by believing in any one religion/person, one get's an automatic pass into heaven to the exclusion of all others.

[Adele_Mommy]

Originally Posted by EmmysMama

When people ask IRL they don't want a long answer generally, so I call myself an atheist. I do not believe in a personal god entity that dictates books to people and listens to prayers, etc.

I really consider myself a bit of a deist, though. I think the universe is an amazingly complex place (I do think others might exist). What existed before the universe? Maybe energy has always existed. I think some type of energy had to cause the universe to come into being. Perhaps it's an entirely natural energy, or maybe it's beyond our understanding, or maybe it's the kind of "universal energy" some religions/philosophies talk about. That's the kind of "god" I believe in.

I guess I would be the most atheistic type of deist. Most that I'm aware of believe in a God with some measure of awareness, like an actual being, even if they think He set the universe in motion and then just let it be.

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

I believe that God or some other higher power may or may not exist. I also believe that we as humans will forever be incapable of proving that God or someother higher power does or does not exist.

I believe this because I see all evidence for one or the other as being interpritable for either side and the only way to see it as proving one or the other is look at it with a biased mind set.

I am sort of a combination of these two, so I am going to be lazy and borrow their words.

I think of myself as agnostic because I strongly agree with MD's first paragraph. But what "feels right" to me is a kind of non-personal energy or creative force sort of like EmmysMama describes.

To continue borrowing other people's words, I love this quote by Einstein:

God reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists.

Einstein frequently referred to "God", but I don't think he intended the word to mean a personal god like that described by Judaism and Christianity.

[javilu]

Panentheist here.

Not only do I "believe in God," but I believe that God is all there is.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Adele_Mommy

I am sort of a combination of these two, so I am going to be lazy and borrow their words.

I think of myself as agnostic because I strongly agree with MD's first paragraph. But what "feels right" to me is a kind of non-personal energy or creative force sort of like EmmysMama describes.

To continue borrowing other people's words, I love this quote by Einstein:



Einstein frequently referred to "God", but I don't think he intended the word to mean a personal god like that described by Judaism and Christianity.

Perhaps an Ignostic then?

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama

I'm not trying to offend any one and I am not saying only people who believe in a god believe in intrinsic value. I'm sure a lot of atheists do believe in intrinsic value, but what I am saying is that the believe itself in that value is not consistent, at all, with darwinism.
Intrinsic value, by definition, is something that cannot be separated ffrom the person. It is not something that could have evolved over time. So where does it come from if not a god? Not the government, because then it could be taken away. Not from some people, because it wouldn't be recognized by the others.

I think you need to define the intrinsic value of people. Because from what I believe, which is that all living things, and not just humans, have an intrinsic value in this world directly linked to the delicate web of ecosystems that make up Earth. Because our place in that connection changes over time the overall "worth" of a species changes over time.

[Storm Bride]

No, I don't. I never have. The whole concept is really alien to me. OTOH, I don't aggressively disbelieve, either. I don't really think I have much of an opinion one way or the other. I've heard the existence, or lack thereof, of God described as one of the "big questions", but it just isn't big to me. It's actually totally irrelevant to me.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama

I'm not trying to offend any one and I am not saying only people who believe in a god believe in intrinsic value. I'm sure a lot of atheists do believe in intrinsic value, but what I am saying is that the believe itself in that value is not consistent, at all, with darwinism.

Why are you equating disbelief in God to Darwinism?

[Nazsmum]

I do believe in God. I have a deep friendship with Him. I'm not sure what my life would be without Him.

[bluebirdiemama]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Why are you equating disbelief in God to Darwinism?

When I originally posted there was a huge amount of posts from atheists and some dawkins thrown in there.
Im not talking about any non belief in a god.

[bluebirdiemama]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

I think you need to define the intrinsic value of people. Because from what I believe, which is that all living things, and not just humans, have an intrinsic value in this world directly linked to the delicate web of ecosystems that make up Earth. Because our place in that connection changes over time the overall "worth" of a species changes over time.

That makes sense. From an atheists perspective that value would be all for not though, once they were gone.
My point is that intrinsic value has to be given by some higher power/being/authority, and maybe for you it is from the earth.

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama

That makes sense. From an atheists perspective that value would be all for not though, once they were gone.
My point is that intrinsic value has to be given by some higher power/being/authority, and maybe for you it is from the earth.

Why do you think intrinsic value needs to come from some "higher power?" Intrinsic means "belonging to a thing by its very nature." To me, that's exactly the opposite of something having value because it is bestowed by some god.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama

Intrinsic value, by definition, is something that cannot be separated ffrom the person. It is not something that could have evolved over time.

Of course it could have evolved - culturally- over time - and the extension of universal value and respect for all humans is pretty recent (last 100 years or so).

There is a strong case for natural evolution of morality and ethics because human groups who exhibit these traits tend to be stronger and survive longer than groups that don't - they are either conquered or killed.

The universe and human civilization does not require an interventionist god to explain itself. Hence I do not need a god in order to explain how the universe works.

[Grace and Granola]

Yes, I do.

I wasn't raised in church and I had no understanding of God growing up. BUT, when the time came for me to make my own choices about the subject, I believed. I believe, I know it for certain. When I believed and all doubts were let go, I was changed. From the inside out I am a different person, and that is how I know--there is a God.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama

That makes sense. From an atheists perspective that value would be all for not though, once they were gone.
My point is that intrinsic value has to be given by some higher power/being/authority, and maybe for you it is from the earth.

Why does intrinsic value need to be given by a higher power? It is a value that belongs to something just for it's very nature of being, no matter why or how it came to be.

[amma_mama]

Originally Posted by EFmom

Why do you think intrinsic value needs to come from some "higher power?" Intrinsic means "belonging to a thing by its very nature." To me, that's exactly the opposite of something having value because it is bestowed by some god.