Really frustrated with this child..what can we do?

[TXmom2]

My 9 yr old DSD (not sure if this is a step-parenting issue, please move if need be..) is driving us crazy! DH and I are equally frustrated by her whining, materialism, and general "all about me" attitude.

DH realizes that he made things much worse in the begining (when she was 4-5 yrs old) because he never wanted to upset her on his weekends so he let her do/have/buy whatever she wanted. When I came along at 5 yrs old, we began working on this and cutting back on the shopping (DSD thought she had to go shopping EVERY weekend and would throw fits if told no) Dh bribing her with money for good behavior is a whole other issue that we continue to work on . We've established more rules and continue to work on being on the same page with discipline. She came to live with us at the first of the year and it has gotten MUCH worse!!!
....lots of issues..but the main problems are:

WHINING- this child is the absolute whiniest 9 yr old I've ever seen. It drives us (me, more than him) CRAZY! She whines when told no. She whines if we go eat somewhere she didn't get to choose. She whines if we have to go somewhere she didn't choose. She whines at least several times a day. She whines for her Daddy all the time. They can be sitting right next to each other and she'll hang on him and whine "I want you"...He'll say, I'm right here, what do you want? then she'll whine.."I just want you" . I think this means she wants him all to herself, when she also has an older step-brother and a baby sister...so this isn't always possible. Although she does get lots of 1 on 1 time with him...I always give them at least half an hour when DH 1st gets home from work (while I go feed the baby) and DH does bedtime with her almost every night (at least half an hour of reading/cuddling) and usually the 1st couple hours on Saturday & Sunday mornings (except for her weekends with mom). I think this is more than enough "alone" time when she is a member of a family of 5.
We both will tell her that she needs to stop whining and and use her "big girl " voice (which I think is condescending to a 9 yr old, but whatever) which will then often result in a meltdown. It's so frustrating! She is 9 yrs old, not 5!

MATERIALISM and SELFISHNESS She thinks about how much stuff or how many things she has all the time. All she ever talks about is how much money she has and what she's going to buy. This weekend we had a hockey tournament, so she was with us the first day (around all of our adult friends) and she constantly interrupted conversations to show everybody all her things. She wants everyone to smell all her lipglosses and "smell-good" lotions and stuff (literally 40 of them, including the 5 she had just bought) and won't stop until they do To me, this is unacceptable. She needs to have boundaries and when someone is talking she needs to wait her turn. She also needs to accept a no from someone and not keep asking until they say yes.
We took her in to the mall with us (the whole family) She wanted to spend some of her birthday money and she only wanted to go into the stores she wanted to go into (Build-a Bear, Justice, etc..) and would whine and complain if we stopped to look anywhere else. We went to her store first and when we tried to stop in a store for DS, she complained the whole time. Started her whining and making a scene, pulling on DH, trying to go to the other store. She had already been warned several times and I said that since she continued to act like that, we would not go to the other store, which of course results in a meltdown.
Every outing seems to end this way. If we are not 100% focused on her, she whines and complains until she meltsdown (full blown crying and sometimes screaming) We are so tired of it but aside from never going anywhere, we don't know what to do. We've tried talking to her before we go and explaining what is going to happen (such as with my son's birthday dinner) but she starts whining in the car. Then we get to the place my son picked and she whines that she doesn't want to go...over & over...until we end up going in with a whining 9 yr old in tow. DH will take her aside and get her calmed down (usually by bribing, which I hate) and sometimes we can make it through the night.
She is otherwise a very sweet, loving child. I just don't know why she acts like this is we aren't 100% doing what she wants. She always asks for money, and will continue to whine and ask for hours. She wants to go to Build-a bear or other store of her choice, every time she does have money and will ask constantly, no matter how many times we tell her she'll have to wait. I'm afraid she is going to be a very self-centered, materialistic young lady and I don't know what to do to change it!
I am so close to taking all her extra things away and making her earn each and every one back. I'm sorry this has turned into such a vent. I'm just about at my wits end and am looking for some outside opinions.
Thanks to anyone who actually made it through this, I hope you can give me some insight and maybe some ideas....

[kcstar]

A small suggestion for her "Daddy time". When I was a teenager, my parents started doing one-on-one "dates" with the kids. Usually something small and cheap, about an hour or so.

Given her shopping urges, I would suggest you and your husband give her two or three options that are acceptable to both of you for these dates. Maybe something like mini-golf?

[plunky]

Your post reads to me like your husband and his daughter have a dynamic that you are very unhappy with. I don't think it's appropriate for you, as a stepparent, to determine what that dynamic should be. It might be a good idea to let go of some of the responsibility toward parenting DSD and let your husband deal with it.

[TXmom2]

Originally Posted by plunky

Your post reads to me like your husband and his daughter have a dynamic that you are very unhappy with. I don't think it's appropriate for you, as a stepparent, to determine what that dynamic should be. It might be a good idea to let go of some of the responsibility toward parenting DSD and let your husband deal with it.

I agree that it does read like that. The problem is that DH is unhappy with the dynamic as well. He is trying to work with me to come up with a solution. He knows that he created alot of problems early on and now wants to correct that. He is very unhappy that she is so focused on herself, money and things and we are both working on trying to correct that. DSD and I have a great relationship other than when it comes to these issues. I am the one with her in the mornings (weekdays) and after school and there are no problems there, it is only when we are out in public and she doesn't get her way. I hope I'm explaining this correctly...

[EFmom]

I agree with plunky. You should step back from this and not be the one setting the tone on discipline.

Also, I don't know what the dynamic was with your husband, the child's mother, etc. But from her perspective, she's had her life majorly changed by coming to live with you, and probably not (again from her view) for the better.

While I'm sure the child has the tendencies you describe, it also seems like the child is looking for adult attention, and you have somewhat distorted perceptions of what nine year old girls are like. I have a nine year old girl, who is a very well behaved and easy child. If she were at a hockey tournament with all our adult friends, she'd be bored out of her skull. Some acting up would be expected.

[annethcz]

I'm going to stay out of the parent/step-parent dynamic.

I will say that the whining must be working for your DSD on some level, otherwise she wouldn't be doing it. Either now, or in the past, whining got her what she wanted. Therefore she's continuing to do it.

My kids get whiny too, so I'm not intending to pile blame on you. But if I notice that whining is happening frequently, I know that there's something going on with the dynamic between me and my kids that they are resorting to that in order to get what they want. When I'm conscious of it (which is something I'm continually working on), I often tell my kids that whining is not going to get them what they want, and stick to that.

[tianakaesha]

The whining with "I want you" and "i just want you" to me sounds very much like she is afraid of abandonment, and it's a very real fear for her. It's not so much demanding of time, just making sure her Daddy is there for her. The whining sounds like she is fearful of being separated, and some of that may be the fact that she came to live with you, and so has been separated from her mother, she may just be scared that she's going to be separated from her Daddy.
As for the materialistic stuff, no help there... but just wanted to send you love

[Linda on the move]

Would your insurance pay for some counseling? She sounds like she fears abandonment and sees money as meaning love. She sounds like she is emotionally stuck at a younger age (may be at an age when something traumatic happened like when her parents split).

I think you need to refocus family time to mellow things like board games and making pizza at home, and she needs a list of simple chores that she can do. If you have a pet, having her take some of the responsibility for the pet would be ideal. I think spending time in nature is one of the very best things for kids, so figuring out what would work where you live would be good.

IMHO, this is not a child who needs to see the inside of a mall for months and needs at least a few weeks of good behavoir before she goes back to a resturant.

Our rule is, "if you whine, the answer is 'no.'" I think when she melts down, time out in her room is appropriate. She isn't going to be happy all the time and everybody just needs to make their peace with that. If they don't, she isn't going to be happy as an adult, which is FAR worse than being unhappy part of the time when she is 9.

We've gone through periods when we had to re-adjust out parenting because we realized that what we were doing wasn't working. I think it's pretty normal. I really like the book Liberated Parents, Liberated Children. We've found that Dh and I being on the same page and being VERY clear with the kids about what is expected is the key. You and your DH might make a simple chart for her of what is allowed and not allowed and present it to her together.

While I do think that tweaking parenting will help, I really think she has some underlieing issues that counseling would help with. GOOD LUCK!

[TXmom2]

Originally Posted by EFmom

I agree with plunky. You should step back from this and not be the one setting the tone on discipline.

Also, I don't know what the dynamic was with your husband, the child's mother, etc. But from her perspective, she's had her life majorly changed by coming to live with you, and probably not (again from her view) for the better.

While I'm sure the child has the tendencies you describe, it also seems like the child is looking for adult attention, and you have somewhat distorted perceptions of what nine year old girls are like. I have a nine year old girl, who is a very well behaved and easy child. If she were at a hockey tournament with all our adult friends, she'd be bored out of her skull. Some acting up would be expected.

Originally Posted by tianakaesha

The whining with "I want you" and "i just want you" to me sounds very much like she is afraid of abandonment, and it's a very real fear for her. It's not so much demanding of time, just making sure her Daddy is there for her. The whining sounds like she is fearful of being separated, and some of that may be the fact that she came to live with you, and so has been separated from her mother, she may just be scared that she's going to be separated from her Daddy.
As for the materialistic stuff, no help there... but just wanted to send you love

I appreciate that perspective. I don't know what a 9 yr old girl should act like, I only have experience with a boy. So, maybe I'm expecting too much.
Just to clarify, there were lots of other children (kids that she knows and is friends with) at the tournament. It's just that she is very demanding of her dad's attention (which I do see has been worse since moving with us) and I do see that can be led by the fear and insecurities of the new living arrangement. That is why I've been stepping back more and letting her have more time alone with her Daddy. It's still hard to have her be so demanding of his attention, all the time. I'll work on being more patient with that...Thanks for the reminder

Originally Posted by annethcz

I'm going to stay out of the parent/step-parent dynamic.

I will say that the whining must be working for your DSD on some level, otherwise she wouldn't be doing it. Either now, or in the past, whining got her what she wanted. Therefore she's continuing to do it.

My kids get whiny too, so I'm not intending to pile blame on you. But if I notice that whining is happening frequently, I know that there's something going on with the dynamic between me and my kids that they are resorting to that in order to get what they want. When I'm conscious of it (which is something I'm continually working on), I often tell my kids that whining is not going to get them what they want, and stick to that.

We are both working on this. DH and I talk about it alot when we are alone and he asks for my help with it. He kind of has a deaf ear to the whining and I just need to give him a certain look and he realizes whats going on and tells her that whining is not going to work and that she needs to find another way to ask. It is starting to help...just very slowly.


As far as those that tell me I need to step back. How do I do that when I am the one alone with her alot since DH is working? I do let DH handle the majority of the discipline with her (and DH asks me for help because he has always done nothing and let her do whatever she wanted. He wants to change that) it's just that I have her so often, I can't just "step back"

What I'm really looking for is suggestions for the "me" attitude and materialistic things. It's like she just always wants more, no matter what she already has. This is not a new problem. It's just gotten worse as she has gotten older and wants more expensive things. The dollar stores just don't hold the same appeal since she's gotten older and we cannot afford to continue to indulge her. This is the true issue that my husband and I are having at the momment, not the step-parenting dynamic.

[EFmom]

I don't think you are going to change this overnight, since essentially your husband has demonstrated his love for his child through stuff.

I'd start trying to think of ways to draw her out of herself. See if you can come up with some type of community involvement that the whole family can do. For example, my older dd volunteers every Saturday with a local dog rescue. Unfortunately for us, that means one of us has to be with her and it eats up our Saturday mornings, but it's good bonding time and it has made my daughter aware of a host of things that might not otherwise be on her radar.

For example, she knows now that lots of people are having tough economic times and are having to relinquish their pets because they are losing their homes. Some people are divorcing and can't keep their pets. It leads to discussion about what's important and how she's thankful for the good things in her life. It's also a major ego boost to see dogs get placed in good homes, and she feels great about herself.

I'm sure there are charities in your community that would welcome some help. We've also helped out at our food pantry and that's been positive.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Definitely you and your husband need to agree on a plan before starting to do anything. And turning this around is going to take a lot of willpower, commitment from both of you, and absolute consistancy.

First, make sure you have covered all the basics that make it hard for kids to behave. Is she getting enough sleep? Good food at regular intervals? Is school going OK? Does she have time for friends? Enough exercise and activities that are just hers? In fact, she might really benefit from a sport where she needs to work as part of a team. Counseling for the emotional issues might also be appropriate.

But honestly, if it were my child who were whining and demanding like that, I would take some quiet, calm time to explain that this was not acceptable and that it was not going to get her anything anymore. That's probably enough consequence for the moment. Then, when she starts whining, remind her to use a clear strong voice and ask politely. If she does that and you would have said yes, then agree. If not, say no calming and then, above all else, stick to it. She has a meltdown? Calmly (as much as you can) wait it out. Do not bribe, do not give in, do not pay attention to her. Keep her safe but otherwise, let it go. Yes, it will be absolutey embarrassing in a store. If you can get her to walk outside, great. Otherwise, smile (through clenched teeth, I'm sure) at those who want to "help" or offer suggestions and say "Thanks. She will get over it soon" and continue to wait. At home I would probably say "I will be happy to talk to you when you are calm" and walk into another room, but obviously that is harder in public.

A word of caution though -- this will get worse instead of better at first. We use the "coke machine" analogy. What do you do when the machine takes your money and doesn't give you a soda? You don't just calmly walk away (well, most of us don't anyway). We may shake the machine, some people will kick it or rock it and so forth. Kids to the same thing -- escalate before they change their tactics. So be prepared to stick it out at all costs.

Of course, the ofset to this is when she asks nicely or is behaving well, thank her for that and accomodate as much as you can, especially with time rather than "stuff". As in your DH saying, "Hey, you have been so pleasent today, lets you and I go on a walk/to the park/play a game" etc.

[kcstar]

It sounds like she has an allowance?

DS is a little young for me to REALLY decide how I want to handle things, but I know that there is a parenting philosophy that says a child ought to earn their spending money with chores. OTOH, I've also heard that they ought to be responsible for some money no matter what.

9 years old is old enough to do addition and subtraction, if you and your husband are willing to be forthright about your finances with your DD. Maybe ask her to help with the budget, so she can see for herself where you don't have the money?

[Shami]

Sounds like she's gone through a rough time, but I would still be very firm with my expectations of her.
For the whining and being difficult during outings, I would plan another outing (something that is her favorite) the next day for the family, but leave her with a sitter. I'm probably going to get flamed right about now.
It isn't fair to the whole family for her to ruin the outing.
Then give her another chance with the next outing. If she does it again, I would do the same until she realizes that she cannot ruin family outings.
Your husband should tell/explain all of this to her. You shouldn't say anything. It's got to come from him.

BTW this is how my mom and stepdad did things and it worked real fast. Also I come from a blended family and my father did abandon me at age seven. I never felt unloved by my mom or stepdad when they were strict. As an adult, I can say that I appreciate their attempts to make us into people that others want to be around.

For the material stuff, I would take all things that are extra away and let her earn it back. If that feels too harsh, at least stop giving her stuff now. Help her begin to work for things. Simple chores around the house or community service. She has to develop and appreciation of what she has and if your dh has been indulging her every whim it's going to take some time and possibly something rather drastic. Again, he does ALL the talking, not you. Any issues/complaints she brings to you, tell her to go talk to her father.

My suggestions might seem harsh, but she is going to grow up and possibly get married one day. I think of it as tough love. She needs help now in order to be a happy person who people will want to be around. In addition to being very firm with her, I would have her in counseling with a child psychologist, not just any counselor. Divorces and remarriages can do terrible things to a child's psyche. Ask me how I know.

[junipermoon]

sounds like you are really stressed.

you probably won't want to hear this, but your frustration is not going to help this little girl at all.

she sounds insecurely attached.

she needs brought into the fold at the mama (or step mama, I guess) level. You say she is a member of a family of five--so, you have to meld hearts, I think, and let her really become a member in your eyes. this will take time--as an parent who adopted older children from foster care--one with reactive attachment disorder and one with insecure attachment--I can say that it does take time for sure. but this is what all children need, to bond. I am not saying that you are not deeply bonded or that her bond w/dad is not deep, deep--I am deeply bonded with my nine year old, but he is still insecurely attached.

this bonding/softening/bringing into the deeper folds of the family as a whole (not just with daddy) can happen in the context, though, of firmer boundaries about whining, certainly.

good luck! I know it is a hard and realllly frustrating road at times. great that you and her father both care so much, though, and I am sure you will be able to make it through in the end. don't give up.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by TXmom2

As far as those that tell me I need to step back. How do I do that when I am the one alone with her alot since DH is working? I do let DH handle the majority of the discipline with her (and DH asks me for help because he has always done nothing and let her do whatever she wanted. He wants to change that) it's just that I have her so often, I can't just "step back"

What I'm really looking for is suggestions for the "me" attitude and materialistic things. It's like she just always wants more, no matter what she already has. This is not a new problem. It's just gotten worse as she has gotten older and wants more expensive things. The dollar stores just don't hold the same appeal since she's gotten older and we cannot afford to continue to indulge her. This is the true issue that my husband and I are having at the momment, not the step-parenting dynamic.

I think in your situation, which I've only been in with nieces and nephews but some of the behaviour was similar, the first thing that would help is to try to detach your investment in whether she's "whiny" "selfish" or "materialistic." She may or may not end up any of those things but focusing on the present might really help.

For the whining, the one thing that I find extinguishes it is just not responding to it. (And I so sympathize with you; whining drives me up the wall.) You could say, once, "I'm no longer going to respond to you when you whine." Then, don't. At all. Don't ask her to repeat herself (trust me, she will) and don't get into it with her. Only respond when she's using a normal tone of voice, and at that time respond the way you would have if she'd used it the first time. That's not so much disciplining her as setting a personal boundary - you don't respond to whining.

For interrupting I think handling it the same way is fine. "I don't like to be interrupted. I'll get to you in a minute."

For the materialistic stuff I really think this is largely your husband's struggle. While I think kids have a solid magpie tendency built in, and I actually find that age 9 is one of the peaks of that kind of behaviour as they start to learn that money is power in our society, the truth is that if she's come to expect a lot of money and stuff, someone's been providing it.

If it's a budget issue at this point, I would share that with her. "We can only afford $10 a month for treats for you. Would you like to help us plan them out?" If it's a family value issue then I think leading by example and as a PP said, not GOING to the mall, etc. will go a long way. Again you are not disciplining her. You are running your family the way you intend to run it.

Finally, for the "me" issue - I honestly do not think that 9 years old is a good age to judge her degree of selfishness, especially with all the upheaval in her short life. I agree with PPs that she may have a really deep insecurity that needs to be met. I think offering her regular "me time" (so she knows she never has to ask but that Thursday from 7-8:30 is her time) with dad freely and lovingly without any expectations of her "appreciating" it for 3-6 months would be a good start and then AFTER that it would be time to evaluate whether she needs some opportunities to reciprocate (volunteer somewhere, etc.)

[greenmama]

I agree alot that has been said, particularly focusing on family time doing low cost things together such as board games and making pizza. I would also recommend trying to find some opportunities to work with people with economic problems such as serving in a soup kitchen or building with habitat for humanity. Something to let her really see how blessed she is. Is most of her shopping interest on clothings or toys like build a bear? Maybe helping her learn to sew her own clothes. I also think a limited allowance, I don't know any kids who have been to build a bear more than once in their life, and most of the kids I know haven't been at all. Some limits are in order, but they need to come from her dad.

[Comtessa]

I just read a book called Simplicity Parenting that addresses a lot of these sorts of behaviors, and suggests a lot of really interesting ways to handle them. The compulsion to accumulate more and more "stuff," in particular, raises a red flag - I suspect it's a symptom of a problem, not a problem in itself. Check out the book, really, I think it'll help. It's much less pedantic than most parenting books, and much more practical.

[SunshineJ]

Whining is one of the few things that drives me up a wall in short order! Several years ago I was talking to a sales associate somewhere and he told me how he'd successfully handled that at his house. You see, when his dd started it, he developed this really odd hearing problem and told her "You know, I just can't hear you when you whine. You have to speak to me normally for me to hear what you want." Then really stick to that. It's amazing how fast that cuts it down once you stop responding to it! It's like poking your brother, you keep doing it because it gets a reaction and you get what you want.

As for the materialistic tendencies, some of that probably isn't going to go away for a few years. She's entering that age where the label you have is gaining importance and where "things" matter. But you can minimize it some, certainly. Limit the mall trips. Instead go places that are free like the park or an entertainment place that's a flat charge with nothing to buy (we have an inflatable playplace here for example). Start nicely driving home the point that you don't have to spend money or go shopping to have a good time. Does she get an allowance? If not, maybe she should and have her be in control of her money. That way if she wants it, she has to come up with the money for it. Reading your posts, I do see that a lot of her behaviour is resulting in her getting what she wants. Her behaviour is not fair to your other child(ren). In the situation at the mall where she threw a fit wanting to go to her stores, one of us, DH or myself, would have taken her home on the spot while the others continued to shop. Same with the restaurant - the car would have been turned around and she and DH would have been dropped off back at the house while DS and I went on to the restaurant. You can't just complain about the behaviour to each other behind a close door, if you and your DH feel her actions are unacceptable then you need to make that very clear to her.

However, during this you also need to make sure that her time with her father is not diminished. From my experience children who may be experiencing issues of abandonment don't get over them by spending more and more time with a parent but rather through steady, stable and consistent routines and home life that demonstrate over and over that no one is going to be left behind. I'm not convinced that this is the situation with your dsd, it could also come from jealousy of your son, or any number of places. Regardless you both need to be in this for the long haul, as none of this will magically disappear in a week or two (wouldn't it be nice if it were that easy!). Good luck!

[webjefita]

Hmmm... here is an interesting exercise. I tried to find a link for it, but couldn't. I recieved it in a Daily Groove email awhile ago, and have been practicing it whenever I remember. I believe wholeheartedly in it. You know, the law of attraction says, what you focus on (whininess, materialism, difficulties) you get MORE of. Sometimes I remind myself, "Stop talking about whatever it is you don't like!" :-)

So, the question is, if you were to write a post about all the cool things about your DSD, what would it say? What is great about her? What do you see developing in her that you hope to encourage? That will get you pointed in a positive direction. Come up with a (slightly, even) more positive statement of her, and then all day, notice evidence of that statement. The next day, come up with a new positive statement.

Here are a couple other Daily Grooves I found that might help you:
The Power of Story
The Appreciation Game
Riding Coattails

Good luck!

[webjefita]

Ah! I found it.
The Power of Attraction