S/O Marriage: By a pastor vs by a judge

[AFWife]

The topic came up in a thread I started previously in the Spirituality section. I wanted to see how everyone felt.

This isn't supposed to be a "this is right and that is wrong" kind of thread. I want it to be a "this is what MY denomination/religion believes" thing.


The question becomes...do you believe that to be married (like spiritually married) it had to be in a church by a pastor? (or other church leader)


Discuss! (remember to be respectful! )

[Adele_Mommy]

Since I was the one who introduced the topic in your other thread, I'll get things started by trying to clarify my position a little.

A marriage by a religous leader is automatically assumed to be a "spiritual" (read - legitimate) marriage under the standards of that religion. A marriage by a judge may very well be a "spiritual" marriage under the standards of some or even all religons, but the possibility exists that it is a marriage that would not be considered a "spiritual" marriage by at least one religion. The most obvious example is a same-sex marriage.

Because the judge is not under the same constraints about whom he can and cannot marry as an official of a given religion, the possibility exists that a marriage by a judge does not qualify as a "spiritual' marriage even if from all outward appearances it looks like it does. Consequently, if there is any reason why an individual wants to reject the spirituality of a marriage - anything from the couple is same-sex to the individual is just a jerk who doesn't like the husband - the fact that a marriage is by a judge gives the individual a loophole to deny the sanctity of that marriage. Denying the sanctity of a marriage performed by a religious official in ones own faith would be much harder I think.

And now, to answer your question: I am a Unitarian Universalist and I believe in the spirituality of a marriage whether it is performed by a pastor or a judge, including some marriages that are not legally recognized. I also think some people get married who shouldn't and their relationship is not spiritual, once again without regard to who performed the ceremony.

[siobhang]

what she said.

[anj_rn]

I agree with Adele_mommy.

I will go a step further and say that many religious leaders will not officiate a wedding where both members are not of the same faith or have not had premarital counseling. Some will not officiate for other reasons (cohabitation, previous marriage/divorce of one of the couple, etc).

That being said, I have never had anyone ask if my DH and I were married in a church or by a JP. My church would recognize marriages performed by religious or secular officiants. It wouls not recognize common law marriage.

[lilyka]

In my church you must be married by the church. However if you are converting the way you got married does not matter. you are bound to that marriage.

[Tradd]

I am an Orthodox Christian. If you marry outside the Church - either in a civil ceremony or in another Christian body's ceremony - you've excommunicated yourself. Period. The usual remedy to this is to get married in the Church, but some Orthodox make unfortunate choices in spouses and marry someone who doesn't want a thing to do with an Orthodox ceremony.

You also cannot marry someone in the Church who is a non-Christian - you can only marry other Christians baptized in the name of the Trinity. So, someone cannot remain an Orthodox Christian in good standing with the Church and marry a Jew, a Muslim, etc.

If an Orthodox does marry outside the Church and doesn't or is unable for some reason to have their marriage blessed in the Church (such as if they married a non-Christian), sometimes the bishop will allow the person to receive the sacraments again, but it can be YEARS.

In addition, if you're an Orthodox not in good standing, you cannot serve as a godparent, as a sponsor at a wedding, be buried from the Church, etc. This is a very serious matter.

The Roman Catholic Church also requires its members to be married in the Catholic Church to remain in good standing with the RCC. However, there is one exception - with the permission of the local Catholic bishop, a Catholic can marry an Orthodox Christian in an Orthodox ceremony - and the Catholic remains in good standing with the RCC. It has even been suggested by the North American Orthodox-Catholic Dialogue that all Orthodox-Catholic marriages take place in the Orthodox parish since that's the only way the Orthodox half of the couple can remain in good standing in their Church.

From the US Conference of Catholic Bishops website:
http://www.usccbpublishing.org/clien...fs/7-050BI.pdf

Other denominations vary. Others might prefer their members get married in a religious ceremony, but it won't put your standing in the body in jeopardy.

[Smokering]

Reformed Baptist. A marriage is a marriage, whether it is performed by a pastor or a secular celebrant. Most people in our denomination would choose to be married by a pastor, but there would be no question that a couple married by a celebrant weren't "really" married, or not married in God's eyes, or anything like that.

[umsami]

Muslim here. Usually people are married by both... in a religious ceremony (Nikkah) and then a civil ceremony. The Nikkah, which is the actual signing of the marriage contract, is much more of a religiously-binding legal ceremony over a spiritual one. In the contract, all sorts of things are specified... including the dowry to be paid to the wife. You'll see people put things like the groom agrees to pay for the wife to finish her graduate degree; she's allowed to work, etc. It doesn't have to be officiated by an Imam... but there needs to be at least two witnesses. It also needs to be public...not in secret.

[smpayne]

I am protestant. I claim no demonimation, because I have issues with all the ones I have researched. I have been actively involved with Babtist, Covenant and Reformed. I don't choose a denomination, but a congregation and the teachings.

If you believe that GOD is all knowing, omnipresent, omnipotent, etc., then as long as you were married within the legal/cultural aspects of your society, you were married in front of GOD. No where in the bible does it say that a civil marriage is not valid. God is not ONLY present in the church and he knows your heart. Just as God would hold you to any other civil/legal obligation you made, he would hold you to your marriage, even if it wasn't in front of a so called pastor/preist.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by AFWife

The topic came up in a thread I started previously in the Spirituality section. I wanted to see how everyone felt.

This isn't supposed to be a "this is right and that is wrong" kind of thread. I want it to be a "this is what MY denomination/religion believes" thing.


The question becomes...do you believe that to be married (like spiritually married) it had to be in a church by a pastor? (or other church leader)


Discuss! (remember to be respectful! )

Marriage is marriage.

[Arduinna]

Well spiritual can mean anything, it all depends on who you ask. Is there a difference between marriage within ones religion and officiated by ones clergy vs civil marriage. Yes.

In Catholicism there is natural marriage and sacramental marriage.

[Kidzaplenty]

[Bluegoat]

My church recognizes marriages that take place outside the church as "real" marriages. The sacramental or natural bond of marriage is understood to happen between the two people being married, so that as long as they are open to that it happens, wherever they are married.

However, marriage in the church is encouraged, mainly I think because it makes this , and other points about the theology of marriage, explicit.

To add to what Tradd said about Catholic views, Catholics can also get permission to marry in Protestant ceremonies. The Catholic view differs from the Orthodox in that a priest is not required for the sacrament, so that it is possible to be married without one, if given permission, and non-Catholic Christian marriages (say, between two Baptists) are also understood to be sacramental.

[cappuccinosmom]

I think either can be a valid marriage.

IMO there are many things in which both are acceptable, but one may be preferable when possible for reasons of symbolism, or for a person's "witness", etc. But it depends on the people involved and the situation.