How to instill responsibility & independence in a 4.5 YO?

[quelindo]

My son is 4.5 and I always thought we'd just lead by example for things like picking up toys and that we'd just wait until he was ready for things like potty learning. (I'm a big fan of Alfie Kohn...or was. Sigh.)

But he's 4.5 and we're STILL wiping his nose. He only just started going pee in the potty recently because we told him he HAD to go first thing in the morning, but he refuses to poop in the toilet. We co-sleep and he's ALL.OVER.ME. all night long. Plus he needs one of us there to fall asleep.

He won't help pick up his toys, and I feel like his dad and I are chumps for doing it ourselves...but how do we MAKE him? I don't want to be authoritarian. I don't want to punish him or make him fear us.

He's never had a babysitter except for my sister, and then only a few times during the day. (She lives 45 minutes away or I'd ask her to come at night.) He's never been to daycare or preschool or kindergarten. We're homeschooling but I'm thinking of enrolling him in kindy next year just so I can have a break!

He pretends/plays all day long and has me do so WITH him. He rarely goes off and plays by himself. He will "let" me alone when I have some cleaning to do, but that's it.

I don't know how we ended up this way. I thought if I just held him close he'd separate when he was ready, but I don't think this is healthy for him and definitely not for ME.

Please help. I love him and he's mostly very sweet, but SO demanding and tiring.

[lonegirl]

He sounds similar to our 3y/o. His only babysitters have been grandparents or our very close friend (who we visit every few days).
He has to play with me or at the very least I have to be there so I can hear the running commentary. It becomes difficult to leave the room etc. WE too co-sleep and he wont fall asleep without me (Although for the very first time he had a sleepover at my mom's with his cousins on the weekend. I warned my mom that he has issues falling asleep....well not there, aparently)

As for picking up. It is difficult to MAKE them....I find the goal for us is to have him WANT to. So some of his motivation to pick up is: if you want to play with a different toy then some of the toys on the floor have to go into the bins/on your shelf. (I don't do this when he has out only 1 toy but when 3 or so are sitting there unused.) THis either gets him to say "but I am playing with it" so my response it "well you don't need another one out then" so he will either continue playing or he will put some of the others away. I also found that as we go to Gymboree and Swimming once weekly part of his motivation to pick up is that he doesn't want to miss them. He also likes when he feels he is helping. "mom, I like helping you" so I will pick up with him so his task isn't so daunting. I also find at Gymboree he is the first to clean up. If his leader says clean-up time he is first to put things away and then try and take toys out of the other kids hands saying "it's time to clean up! you have to put that away!"

Well anyways I wanted you to know you aren't alone.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by lonegirl

As for picking up. It is difficult to MAKE them....I find the goal for us is to have him WANT to. So some of his motivation to pick up is: if you want to play with a different toy then some of the toys on the floor have to go into the bins/on your shelf. (I don't do this when he has out only 1 toy but when 3 or so are sitting there unused.) THis either gets him to say "but I am playing with it" so my response it "well you don't need another one out then" so he will either continue playing or he will put some of the others away. I also found that as we go to Gymboree and Swimming once weekly part of his motivation to pick up is that he doesn't want to miss them. He also likes when he feels he is helping. "mom, I like helping you" so I will pick up with him so his task isn't so daunting. I also find at Gymboree he is the first to clean up. If his leader says clean-up time he is first to put things away and then try and take toys out of the other kids hands saying "it's time to clean up! you have to put that away!"

Well anyways I wanted you to know you aren't alone.

OP your ds sounds almost identical to my dd who is also 4.5. Its been a struggle because up until about 6 mos ago the way you described your son was the exact way that my dd was and it was becoming a real downer for me. Especially because I have an 18 yo who was nothing like this...

I had to put down the Kohn and others and figure out what works for my kid. Turns out she gets motivated in many different ways, generally toy clean up is no longer as issue since if she wants to play with somethong else its not going to happen until the first toy is put up. We also negotiate for things, if she wants to go to park, whereever then i have certain expectations.

It may not be the most gentle way but the road we were on before was impacting not only how I felt about her but was also causing strain in my marriage. She now plays well by herself but it too has been a process.

In our case it probably helped a great deal that she goes to preschool 3 mornings a week and used to go to daycare and I discovered there she was very much happy to pick up and do things cooperatively. It was only at home that it was not working.

I agree with the poster above if they get in the spirit of liking to help it makes things so much easier.

[newbymom05]

I don't think there is anything wrong w/ setting boundaries, esp if there are things that are bugging you. I used the Jay Gordon nightweaning method on DS1. On Dr. Gordon's website he discusses the baby being angry and says something like, "Of course he's angry! If every time I woke up, my wife would hand me a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice and rub my back while I drank it, I'd love it! I'd never want that to stop." I will still think about that statement years later--why should my son want to do anything if I'll do it for him, y/k? Like pick up toys--it's easier if I do it myself, yet do I want to do it for the next decade or more? 'Cause why would he ever decide ot do it on his own w/o my prompting?

[~*max*~]

We have 4 kids, so our situation is a bit different - my kids needed to have more independance from an early age since there is less of mom's time/attention to go around, and the older kids to model for the younger ones what is expected. For example, my 3 year old has been helping to clean up her toys and "make her bed" since she was about 1. That is just what is expected and what we do. She likes to do it bc the big kids do.

That being said, I have always been a fan of the expression "Start as you mean to go." Meaning, in this situation, it's never too late to start out as you want your kids to behave. I would take a few rules that seem like they would be the most helpful to you, such as cleaning up toys, playing on own for short periods to start, and learning to go to bed on his own and begin implementing them. Ds is old to enough to understand if you explain that in order for things to be the best they can around the house, everyone needs to help out, his big boy jobs are going to be xyz. Then teach him how to do xyz and be super consistent in enforcing them. I also find routines incredibly helpful for kids, so establishing a new routine to go w/the new rules might help ds adjust. (Such as a bedtime routine that involves cleaning up his toys, getting himself into his jammies, etc.) And yes, we do have some consequences if household rules/directions are not followed. Sometimes they are natural consequences, "We cannot get out another toy until this one is cleaned up." Sometimes they are a brief time out alone in the bedroom. (Usually just the thought of that turns the behavior around.) HTH and good luck mama.