I've got breast questions

[jsh7809]

Help this first time mama with some questions about boobs!

1. My mom keeps telling me that I need to be "toughening up" my breasts now so that nursing will be easier later. She said with my older sister, she didn't do any prep and it hurt so badly (she also struggled with mastitis). Then, with me, she started scrubbing her breasts with a rough washcloth a few months before my birth, and didn't have much pain at all. With my little brother, she forgot and suffered again.
But I've read of course that breast stimulation can start early labor, so I'm hesitant to do any of that until we're closer to the due date. Plus, it sounds ouchy AND my La Leche League book and other sources say that breastfeeding shouldn't hurt your nipples unless the latch is wrong. Any input here? My nipples are super sensitive and I don't really like having them messed with, so I can see this being a potential problem... but I don't want to take any risks about preterm labor, and I am prone to think I'll just wait to let the baby "toughen them up" - why suffer longer?

2. I've definitely had lots of nipple/ areola changes but the ones that I don't see represented in the books, etc., are the little bumps that almost look warty. Gross, I know! I think it may be the normal gland bumps that appear in late pregnancy, slightly darker/ greyish than my regular skin, just on the areolas. They're pretty light, but maybe they are more obvious on me than most women because I am super pale and my nipples are a very light pink? I have other little bumps as I always do, but I see the occasionally almost black spot on my nipples too and don't know if it's shirt fuzz stuck to me or weird skin stuff or what.

[smeisnotapirate]

1. Eeeeeeeeeew, don't. Nursing will probably hurt for a few weeks, or at least feel weird. It's ok, and rubbing your nipples or whatever will not really help. Though, it's a great thing to do when you're coming up on 42 weeks!

2. Totally normal. I have the same thing. I expected it to go away, actually, and it didn't, so you may want to get used to it. My nipples/areoli are TOTALLY different than before I had DS.

[sehbub]

1. DON'T DO IT! Seriously, that's akin to the woman leading my mom's birth class having them all put their arms in buckets of frozen salt water to show them what labor pain would be like. Breastfeeding won't necessarily be comfortable in the beginning, but they're right, it should cause serious pain unless there's something wrong (latch, tongue tie, etc).

2. Totally normal, like Sara said. I've had them since my first pregnancy. They fade quite a bit when I'm not pregnant, but they're always there.

[jolesh]

hmmm...

1 - i heard that about the rough washcloth too, and with DD i did try to toughen up the jugs. it did NO good. it was all about the latch. i had a lot of pain in the first while and the only thing that solved it was seeing a consultant and getting the latch fixed. (that said, you do have to allow a bit of time to toughen up i think - since weaning - which i did a little while after finding out i was pregnar again - my nipples have shed the tougher skin so i think i will have to toughen up again - peeling, ewwww) so i wouldn't worry too much about trying to toughen up in advance, but reading about the latch ahead of time, or getting someone who really knows their stuff to help in the early days is helpful. i don't think mastitis is related to toughened or untoughened nipples, though i never had it. i did have clogged ducts a couple times and it was pretty uncomfortable and the only thing that helped was warm compresses/baths and nursing until the clog cleared...

2 - your nipples sound normal and warty looking (though i try not to think of it as warty lol..) it is crazy how they change, hey? i sometimes think that what appears as shirt fuzz or dry skin or whatever might be some early secretion that has dried. with DD i started leaking at around 4.5 months (?!) though i haven't had that happen this time round. though there could be a little i am unaware of. at least there are no wet shirt spots this early, knock on wood..

hope some of this helps.. boobs are weird! when i was pregnant the first time around i thought that the milk would just come out one little hole or something, i had no idea it would spray out of a bunch in all directions! it can be fun nursing in public (if you are comfortable with that). i know when i nursed on a plane (which is good for babes ears going up and down) i kept spraying DH, so thank goodness it wasn't a stranger sitting beside us..

[Pepper44]

I think your nipples will be fine, don't torture them. It is true that they have to acclimate, but it shouldn't cause mind bending pain unless the latch is wrong. After a few weeks of nursing then you won't feel anything at all! My nipples are tough now, like almost calloused? I don't know, calloused nipples is kind of a disturbing thought isn't it...

Those little bumps are called Montgomery's glands. They serve a purpose, though I'm not sure exactly what it is. I think I read once they are lubricating?

I also sometimes have random dark spots on my nipples, especially the left one. I think it's just hormonal changes and everything.

Before having DD my nipples looked like little pink pencil erasers and my areolas were very very light and small. Now my nipples are like dime sized, dark pink/brown/almost purple colored and my areolas are much darker and growing wider. It's freaky how your breasts change with each pregnancy!

[Pepper44]

I didn't realize milk came out multiple holes either, I assumed it would come out one hole like a bottle nipple. I was shocked, and then intrigued at how far I could shoot three streams at once!

Check out this link, it has a gallery of normal nipples and some breast info.
http://www.007b.com/nipple_gallery.php (I promise it's not porn! lol)

[jolesh]

i forgot to mention that something i find super alarming about the jugs when BFing is how lumpy they get - all the lumps of milky glands. it tends to freak me out a little, like how am i supposed to tell the difference between these lumps and a bad lump?? sorry, that is off topic sort of... but i thought i would throw it out there.

[klocke]

The school of thought on "toughing up " your nipples is really more of a wives tale sort of thing. It is very much a generational thing as my mom told me the same thing. I have spoke to many lactation consultants and LLL members about this and it really does nothing but well hurt your nipples before hand. I have nursed three babies already and while you may be a little sensitive in the first few weeks it should never hurt. If there is pain involved then more than likely there is a latch problem. And as far as your mom experiencing pain with two nursling's and not with you that really is probably more coincidence than anything else. My three have all been different nursers and I had trouble with my 1st and 3rd but not my 2nd. Each baby is different and so is the time frame it takes them to adjust to nursing. So you can definitely have totally different nursing experiences between different children. Good luck!!

[snoopy5386]

I think the toughening your nipples thing is pretty old advice, similar to wash your nipples with alcohol before and after feedings (can you say ouch!)
As for BFing hurting, it certainly can - with DD it hurt horribly the first few weeks and for the most part we were doing it right, it just took time to adjust and get better. I don't buy that whole "If you are doing it right it shouldn't hurt" line. Heck if someone was sucking on my finger for 45 mins at a stretch 10-12 times a day it would hurt and we are talking about nipples here - of course it isn't going to feel pleasant at first.

The glands are called Montgomery's glands and they secrete an oil to help lubricate the nipple:
A number of small bumps that surround the nipple and look like "goose bumps" are sebaceous glands, and are called Montgomery's Glands or Areolar Glands. They secrete an oily substance that lubricates and conditions the surface of the nipple and the areola. This is helpful during breastfeeding, to prevent cracking of the nipple.

[jsh7809]

This is great, thanks so much ladies! Yet another reason this DDC rocks
I'm so glad I've been listening to my intuition and NOT trying to "toughen them up". It is very possible that my mom has been misremembering (my little brother is 27 years old so that was all awhile ago)... maybe I was just the easiest baby? In any case, she had specifically mentioned starting to pump early, which I definitely knew was a no-no unless I am also trying to kickstart labor. Based on her babies, this one has a good chance of being "late" so you never know.
I will let the boobies rest and stay as they are until my babe comes out and is ready to suckle. I've been reading about the latch and know that it sometimes takes practice, but what the LLL book says is much different from what I would've thought on my own. For instance, I had NO idea that you need to break the suction of the latch in order to re-align - I guess I thought the nipple just kinda popped in and out with ease! So, it's great to know that there is information and support around any difficulties that might come up.
Good to know that the bumps and colors are normal, too. It is so crazy how much my breasts have changed already! I knew that they would go up in size, as they've done - but I didn't expect the nipples to change so much so quickly, to get the other little skin tags and new bumps and colors that are there already. That web gallery of normal, varying nipples was really helpful- you never see regular breasts in our society, so that is great.
I am still pretty small - barely a B cup - and have a really similar figure to my mom's... and I'm trying not to think that my boobs will end up like hers. She nursed 3 kids till about 2 years old each, and her very small A cups have long been (forgive the term) deflated into a kind of non-breast. Seeing that all of my life has been kind of frightening and has led me to think that I am less woman than some, somehow. But it is silly to get ahead of myself when who knows how my breasts will be during and after nursing - and I know that there are lots and lots of body changes that will keep coming that I can't control, so I need to be open to my breasts' "purpose" changing.
In other words - I was only just starting to grow to like them as is, and now they are already so different. I worry about "noodle boob" (as one mama friend puts it) but know that I'll never want surgery, and that I do want to breastfeed. So what can you do!

And, I had no idea that the milk can come out of multiple holes, either. The human body is so very interesting!

[dogretro]

Originally Posted by klocke

while you may be a little sensitive in the first few weeks it should never hurt. If there is pain involved then more than likely there is a latch problem.

I, and at least one of my friends, will totally disagree w/ this. I truly understood the term "toe-curling pain" once I had began nursing dd. Her latch was checked by two different LCs in the hospital & both said it was perfect. I even knew it was perfect from looking at it, but it hurt so bad I was sure there had to be *something* wrong. Nope, just a hard sucker. It hurt really badly for two weeks & then I got tougher & it never hurt again. Same thing happened to my friend. It hurt like crazy at first, then went away. No feeding probs there, either. So, not to be a butt, but if it does hurt, it may be strong suck & sensitivity on your part.

[dogretro]

Originally Posted by jsh7809

For instance, I had NO idea that you need to break the suction of the latch in order to re-align - I guess I thought the nipple just kinda popped in and out with ease!

Unless you want to see your nipple stretch really far & hurt a lot, yeah, you'd better break the suction first I recommend starting lanolin on them after your first nursing session. Lansinoh is good, but Medela makes one that has something else mixed in it so that it is thinner and smoother. Much more comfortable to apply to tender nips than the thicker Lansinoh. In our house, Medela is for the nips, Lansinoh is for the diaper covers.

Afm boobs, the areolas & nips get much darker, the bumps come out, & the nip gets a lot bigger, like a raspberry. I even said to dh, "Is is just me, or are my actual nipples bigger now?" & he said they were bigger. Color, size, & bumps went back to normal several months pp & all weirdness returned a few months after bfp.

[aylaanne]

Originally Posted by klocke

I have nursed three babies already and while you may be a little sensitive in the first few weeks it should never hurt. If there is pain involved then more than likely there is a latch problem.

This is false. Every woman's breasts are different, and every baby's mouth is different. I spent nights in tears because I thought my pain meant that something was "wrong" even though the LC and my instinct told me that we were doing everything "right."

If your nipple is long, or wide, or your baby's mouth is small, or if their tongue is short, you can have pain, every time, even if the latch is good, there's no tongue-tie, and your ducts are clear and your milk is in. Sometimes the latch is "right" but the baby's suck-swallow-breathe is still uncoordinated enough that there's some pain while s/he figures out the best way to get the milk out of YOUR breast. As you both grow and practice, the pain will go away.

LLL does women everywhere a disservice by telling them that pain means that something is wrong. While I think that pain can be a red flag to look for latch issues, etc, it is NORMAL and SHORT-TERM. The best indication for whether something is wrong is not pain, but listening to your baby swallow, and watching the diaper count for enough wet/dirty diapers.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by jsh7809

I am still pretty small - barely a B cup - and have a really similar figure to my mom's... and I'm trying not to think that my boobs will end up like hers. She nursed 3 kids till about 2 years old each, and her very small A cups have long been (forgive the term) deflated into a kind of non-breast. Seeing that all of my life has been kind of frightening and has led me to think that I am less woman than some, somehow. But it is silly to get ahead of myself when who knows how my breasts will be during and after nursing - and I know that there are lots and lots of body changes that will keep coming that I can't control, so I need to be open to my breasts' "purpose" changing.
In other words - I was only just starting to grow to like them as is, and now they are already so different. I worry about "noodle boob" (as one mama friend puts it) but know that I'll never want surgery, and that I do want to breastfeed. So what can you do!

I'm on the other end of the spectrum - a D/DD before I started nursing, and I gotta say, my breasts are SOOOOO much prettier since nursing (can I say that? ). I've had no sag and my weirdly proportioned left breast (pre-nursing) has evened out so that I now have almost model-perfect breasts. I love them since nursing!

Breastfeeding has been GOOD to me and my gals, so hopefully it'll be that way with you too. Your mom's breasts probably have more to do with age and body type than with her nursing. I can point to a lot of ladies who have never nursed whose breasts still look weird and floppy, and women who have nursed who have awesome breasts. It's probably just a breast thing.

"Noodle boob" because of nursing is a 100% total myth!

Originally Posted by dogretro

I, and at least one of my friends, will totally disagree w/ this. I truly understood the term "toe-curling pain" once I had began nursing dd. Her latch was checked by two different LCs in the hospital & both said it was perfect. I even knew it was perfect from looking at it, but it hurt so bad I was sure there had to be *something* wrong. Nope, just a hard sucker. It hurt really badly for two weeks & then I got tougher & it never hurt again. Same thing happened to my friend. It hurt like crazy at first, then went away. No feeding probs there, either. So, not to be a butt, but if it does hurt, it may be strong suck & sensitivity on your part.

Oh yeah. For us, it did NOT come naturally. DS had the suction of a Hoover vac and ZERO manners. The first 6 weeks were horrific, but around 8 weeks it stopped hurting and we've been smooth sailing since (21mo and going strong! ). Baby needs to learn, mama needs to learn, and sometimes pain happens when you're doing it right. Just check to make sure and give it time.

Originally Posted by dogretro

Unless you want to see your nipple stretch really far & hurt a lot, yeah, you'd better break the suction first I recommend starting lanolin on them after your first nursing session. Lansinoh is good, but Medela makes one that has something else mixed in it so that it is thinner and smoother. Much more comfortable to apply to tender nips than the thicker Lansinoh. In our house, Medela is for the nips, Lansinoh is for the diaper covers.

Just a warning: I found out I was allergic to lanolin early on, and was surprised to hear that MANY women are. Keep an eye out for itching or crawling pain on your nipples if you're applying lanolin regularly. I found that a warm compress did a great job for me to soothe some of the achiness early on.

Originally Posted by aylaanne

If your nipple is long, or wide, or your baby's mouth is small, or if their tongue is short, you can have pain, every time, even if the latch is good, there's no tongue-tie, and your ducts are clear and your milk is in. Sometimes the latch is "right" but the baby's suck-swallow-breathe is still uncoordinated enough that there's some pain while s/he figures out the best way to get the milk out of YOUR breast. As you both grow and practice, the pain will go away.

Yes! I had a fantastic LC who told me that his latch was right, but we were dealing with "size incompatibility." DS's mouth was small (thanks, DH ) and my nipple was bigger than was comfortable for him. Also, we were dealing with INCREDIBLE oversupply and because of that, a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, and poor DS choked every time he nursed. My wise LC told me to just stick it out - that as DS grew (and he wasn't tiny, 7lb 8z at birth), it would get more comfortable. And it did.

Originally Posted by aylaanne

LLL does women everywhere a disservice by telling them that pain means that something is wrong. While I think that pain can be a red flag to look for latch issues, etc, it is NORMAL and SHORT-TERM. The best indication for whether something is wrong is not pain, but listening to your baby swallow, and watching the diaper count for enough wet/dirty diapers.

Agreed. Totally. Again, we talk a lot here about "variations of normal" in NCB - there is exactly the same in natural parenting, including nursing.

[rhiOrion]

SME- I'm glad to hear about your boobs (haha, that sounded funny). I have one that is a bit smaller than the other (and looks even more lopsided because my rib cage curves in unevenly)...and it's nice to have SOME hope that breastfeeding might not make it worse. I mean, it might, but maybe not!

As for my boobs- I've had those bumps for as long as I can remember, but they've gotten more pronounced, and there are more of them, since I've been pregnant. My areolas have gotten bigger and darker since I've been pregnant, too.

[bubbamummy]

My mum was told to toughen up her nipples with an old toothbrush when she was pregnant with me...ouch!!! I cant even imagine

[GreenTeaGinger61]

Count me in the camp of better boobs:P I'm a D/DD cup as well and mine look great esp. when nursing. Perky as all get out I will say that once I stopped nursing they did get a little noodle like but nothing like they horror stories. My youngest self weaned at nearly three (she was two months short of three) thus giving me a couple year break between nursing. They're back to being very perky again though much to dh's delight.

And I'll also second the pain. I love LLL mission but I really really wish that someone had been very upfront with me about nursing. It did not come natural to me or my son. It hurt, he wasn't getting enough milk, I ended up engorged, etc. And the whole time I was in tears because I thought I was doing it wrong thus I must be a failure as a mother. NOT something any new mom should have to think. With us it was because my son was so small and my breasts were so big. The only reason we made it through was because my mom was totally committed to me breastfeeding so she was my cheerleader and a really awesome home care nurse (every new mother in Maine used to get one). I'd highly recommend a LC to any new mom. We went on to nurse by the way until my son was 2.5, and then I nursed another two and am moving onto the fourth soon

But even with all that I didn't feel like I needed to get my nipples prepared. Ouch ouch ouch. No thanks!

Oh and a funny hole thing with me is that I had my right nipple pierced way before I had kids, and milk comes out that hole as well.

[CamoShades]

Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate

I'm on the other end of the spectrum - a D/DD before I started nursing, and I gotta say, my breasts are SOOOOO much prettier since nursing (can I say that? ). I've had no sag and my weirdly proportioned left breast (pre-nursing) has evened out so that I now have almost model-perfect breasts. I love them since nursing!

Breastfeeding has been GOOD to me and my gals, so hopefully it'll be that way with you too.

But I see your other child was born June of 2008, so I'm guessing you're either still nursing or got pregnant and stopped nursing while pregnant? Because that can make a huge difference. The deflation comes once you stop nursing and aren't pregnant. I had DD in April 2008, and I was down to nursing her twice a day (so not often enough to keep them looking nice and big and full of milk) when I got pregnant last July. I had noticed some deflation like I'd never had before, but then they started to perk back up once I got pregnant, and they look great again now. So my boobs have been pretty nice looking for about the past three years, but I fully expect them to turn into pancakes when I'm done nursing this baby, because I caught a glimpse of it during the time I wasn't nursing frequently before I got pregnant. I would say you can't really judge how they're going to look unless you've tested it out -- you're not nursing, and you're not pregnant.

To the OP: You can probably expect your nipples to be sore for the first few weeks at times you're NOT nursing your baby -- when water runs over them in the shower, when you towel off after a shower, if you wear a shirt without a bra, etc. And while I do agree with the women who say "nursing should never hurt" is a false statement, it's not all that common for the latch to be correct and for you to still have pain while nursing, so if you do, definitely see an LC.

[nikirj]

Whoohooo for all the great breastfeeding advice in our DDC!!!

Yes, no need to prep, and montgomery's glands .

My mom is a fantastic lactation consultant and I lived with her when I had my first, so I essentially had a live-in LC for every latch...and STILL it hurt like the dickens for a couple of days, I had oversupply with massive engorgement, I got mastitis twice, and nursing wasn't a happy thing until a few weeks in (it's all kind of cloudy...). She told me later my daughter was one of the hardest babies she's ever worked with, when my DS was born and I was telling her "OMG this is so easy, this is the easiest baby ever!!!" and she just said "hon, he's normal, [firstborn] was REALLY difficult." Even so, I had some nipple rawness in the first week while my nipples got used to his mouth, too.

It's normal for there to be a moment of pain right when baby latches on (just for a second) during the first week or so, when your nipple is still getting used to the whole nursing deal; while baby is actually latched on and nursing, it shouldn't hurt. That latch pain is normal but feeling it through a feeding isn't, and if you are that's when you should get help. After a week or so, the latch pain usually goes away.

Even with my difficult-to-get-started baby, the couple of weeks of difficulty were worth it considering the 2 years of great nursing that followed

[Ashes]

As far as I know, and from personal experience, needing to toughen up your nipples is a myth.

As someone else said, if your baby has the right latch, it should not hurt.

I was fortunate with my DS... my nipples never hurt. I never needed any cream or anything. Sure I had other problems, but no nipple problems, so skip the toughening!