I need disipline advice, parenting advice

[Kailey's mom]

Dd will be 4 years old in May. Her primary diagnosis for her quirks is Sensory Integration disorder, although Aspergers is suspected but the docs feel she is too young to diagnose, plus we have been doing therapies that seem to be helping (hbot, occupational therapy) although I need to get dd back into O.T. since insurance no longer covers her old O.T.

My dd is very advanced in language, She tested at an 7-8 year old level for receptive, and I believe she was in the 5-6 y/o range for expressive. There is nothing she doesn't understand, and knows this, and uses this to her advantage. Emotionally she is just 3 ya know, sometimes I feel that emotionally she is problably a bit delayed.

Time outs do NOT work what so ever. She watched supernanny with me ONCE~!! and will say "I want to meet supernanny, so you can keep trying to put me in timeout so we can call her, she'll teach you how mommy" OM freeking gosh, where is my kid getting this?!?! The supernanny incident was over a year ago! She wants to meet her, so if I even mention time out, she seems to act out worse, and laughs of course.

Time ins: She loves the heavy pressure, so she squirms, and cracks up laughing if I hold her tighter.

If I try to use distraction, she will say "I know you are "joking me" because you don't want me to do _______ and will continue and laugh. If it's over an object, I will put it out of reach, than she will scream and carry on, only because the object is out of reach.

I try my best to prevent meltdowns and behavior issues by making sure she gets her nap, and using distractions the best I can.

Although she gets PLENTY of positive attention, I think she likes negitive?!?!

I try to talk to her, rationize with her... take things away, ok, you name it, and I bet I've tried it. There are days when she KNOWS what she is doing is not acceptable, but she does it anyway. Throwing things, kicking, screaming over and over after telling her to stop. She laughs!

What in the world can I do. She seems to be too smart for respond to disipline , but too young to understand why some things are "no no's"

I have also tried "natural consiquences" and this failed. I pretty much gave up, and figured she'd have to learn on her own, so she end up falling off a chair, she did not learn anything. She doesn't connect the behaviors with what happens.

She says mean things to get a reaction...last night I tried something new.. and said to Kailey "ok, since you dont' listen to Mommy's rules, than you have to make your own" and than of course she tested it by screaming, throwing things, etc. I only responded by saying "I doesn't bother me, you are making your rules, so if this is how you want to act, than have fun" Of course my tone was pissy, because I am so tired of this... heck, even saying to her that she makes her own rules was mean, I know this.. She cried hysterically and said "please mommy, I'll listen to the rules, I don't want to make my rules" It was so sad. This really bit me in the butt today though, when she was not listening to anything, and she said "I'm making my own rules for a little while, than I'll listen to yours later"

Advice please!!!!!!! TIA.

[beachbaby]

Wow, I was reading your post, because it sounds SO familiar. Right down to the 'you're joking me' reaction. Wow.

My DD is 4 with SPD and recent speech delay dx--tested at nearly age 7/96th percentile on receptive language, but a significant delay in speech--2.6 years/14th percentile. I suspect ASD, but we don't have a dx yet.

I'll be reading with interest. In our case, making sure her sensory needs are met throughout the day helps. DD can be really resistant, though, so it's difficult to implement the sensory diet at home.

Someone here posted in response to my DD's anxiety and negative looping behavior--can you interrupt her behavior with some vestibular or proprioceptive activity? Like jumping on a mini tramp or pushing against a wall? DH has had luck with rough and tumble play--it seems to override DD's system and give us a do-over of sorts. Swimming 1x week has also helped with overall behavior.

Talking about the rules and expectations (not during the moment) helps to some degree (maybe a visual schedule?), but it also can feed into DD's anxiety, so it's quite a balance for us. She doesn't seem to get, and constantly wants to know the 'why?' of every rule, expectation, etc...so she gets stuck in a loop of negativitiy--sometimes I think I've made a mistake by ever trying to reason with a 4 year old ...really, though, just implementing the rule without discussion seems to be a better route for us (easier said than done!) b/c any discussion leads to the anxiety over the rules, why we have rules, who makes the rules, etc. and then she perseverates on the issue for the rest of the day.....Implement, move on, incorporate some sort of sensory activity to override the loop....that's my new plan.

It's exhausting, though. Hope you get some more input, mama. . It's HARD.

[joensally]

I am happily out of that stage with DS , and my recall is fuzzy. There was a recent thread on SPD kids:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1193137

Off the top of my head, some ideas:
-Kids, Parents and Power Struggles by Kurcinka. A very, very good parenting book, written by the author of The Spirited Child (she gets sensory stuff).
-watch an episode of The Dog Whisperer. I don't mean this in any way as disrespectful of children, but he models the leadership and calm we need to demonstrate and provide to our children, particularly when they're not in control of themselves and are overwhelmed internally and externally. Since I've started focussing on my own calm and confidence, annoying and disruptive behaviour has all but stopped.
-never fall into the trap of thinking "they're just too smart." Yes, they're smart, but they still need the wisdom and guidance of their parents, and when I start to think that way with my kids, I know it's time to bring on my A game.

Did OT give you a sensory diet for home? If not, should you restart OT I'd highly recommend getting the sensory diet. For instance, DS loves heavy work, but some types more than others. We teased that out in OT.

This is likely a developmental stage and there won't be some magic cure. It will take a lot of time and work for her to move through this stage. And she's 3? Threes are often delightful PITAs who are testing, testing, testing their boundaries.

[Kailey's mom]

Originally Posted by beachbaby

Wow, I was reading your post, because it sounds SO familiar. Right down to the 'you're joking me' reaction. Wow.

Like jumping on a mini tramp or pushing against a wall? DH has had luck with rough and tumble play--it seems to override DD's system and give us a do-over of sorts. Swimming 1x week has also helped with overall behavior.

Talking about the rules and expectations (not during the moment) helps to some degree (maybe a visual schedule?), but it also can feed into DD's anxiety, so it's quite a balance for us. She doesn't seem to get, and constantly wants to know the 'why?' of every rule, expectation, etc...so she gets stuck in a loop of negativitiy--sometimes I think I've made a mistake by ever trying to reason with a 4 year old ...really, though, just implementing the rule without discussion seems to be a better route for us (easier said than done!) b/c any discussion leads to the anxiety over the rules, why we have rules, who makes the rules, etc. and then she perseverates on the issue for the rest of the day.....Implement, move on, incorporate some sort of sensory activity to override the loop....that's my new plan.

It's exhausting, though. Hope you get some more input, mama. . It's HARD.

You are right, our lo's sound very similar LOL and ((hugs)) hehe.. Yes, we get the same 'why' about every rule, expectation ETC. I've copy cat your plan and see how it goes, keep me updated too Maybe instead of saying no, or whatever.. instead I'm going to move the mini tramp back into the house, and have her jump. Maybe this will work. Hang in there.

[Kailey's mom]

Originally Posted by joensally

I am happily out of that stage with DS , and my recall is fuzzy. There was a recent thread on SPD kids:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1193137

Off the top of my head, some ideas:
-Kids, Parents and Power Struggles by Kurcinka. A very, very good parenting book, written by the author of The Spirited Child (she gets sensory stuff).
-watch an episode of The Dog Whisperer. I don't mean this in any way as disrespectful of children, but he models the leadership and calm we need to demonstrate and provide to our children, particularly when they're not in control of themselves and are overwhelmed internally and externally. Since I've started focussing on my own calm and confidence, annoying and disruptive behaviour has all but stopped.
-never fall into the trap of thinking "they're just too smart." Yes, they're smart, but they still need the wisdom and guidance of their parents, and when I start to think that way with my kids, I know it's time to bring on my A game.

Did OT give you a sensory diet for home? If not, should you restart OT I'd highly recommend getting the sensory diet. For instance, DS loves heavy work, but some types more than others. We teased that out in OT.

This is likely a developmental stage and there won't be some magic cure. It will take a lot of time and work for her to move through this stage. And she's 3? Threes are often delightful PITAs who are testing, testing, testing their boundaries.

I'll check that book out, hopefully it will give me some tools. We have a sensory diet, but it's a bit outdated if you kwim. I'll call tomorrow and try to get her back into O.T. asap. Thanks so much!!