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Relatives and comments on physical appearance

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Looking for some advice/perspective:

My inlaws visit once every couple of months for a couple of days. They are not necessarily mean-spirited people, but they make a lot of comments on the physical appearance of others. They say good things, negative things and in-between things.
I was brought up in a home where we did not talk about others' appearances. It wasn't strictly forbidden, but my parents just never seemed to notice or care--so we kids didn't either. I feel like this is one of the (few) things my parents got right, and that it affected me, and the way I see other people, in a very positive way. My husband and I have tried to incorporate this into our own family. It is a struggle for him, since he was raised otherwise, but his very occasional slips have provided a good opportunity for us to remind the kids that we don't generally comment on personal appearances/differences, and also discuss the nuances of such comments and how they can be appropriate and even expected in some situations (eg a compliment on a new haircut). In all, it's goin' fine
We had kind of taken the stance with the inlaws that we don't see them that often, therefore limiting their influence on the kids, so we weren't going to sweat what they say in front of them too much. But lately, their comments have been directed at the children themselves. While the comments aren't negative, I worry about the potential impact. For example, my DS got braces several months ago, and now they ask him about his braces several times a visit. Asking him to show them, then whether they hurt, when he's going to get them off, how often he has them tightened, etc., the same questions, several times. This is a kid who never mentions them otherwise, and I'm afraid he's going to get a complex! Then they go on about how no one they know has braces, and make other comments that make it clear to me that they're not asking out of concern, but out of curiosity. Our DD has 2 stainless crowned teeth, and they go through the same routine with her. They comment on the kids hair, on their height--any physical change whatsoever.
So my question is, how do I mitigate any potential effect this will have on the children? It doesn't seem enough to talk to the kids. I feel like I need to ask the inlaws to stop. But it's such a pervasive part of their personalities, I'm not sure I can ask in a way that's not overtly critical of the way they live their lives--they will not understand how the comments could hurt when they are not criticism. They have reacted extremely negatively in the past when we have asked them to modify their behavior in front of the children, so I anticipate backlash--it just feels too important to let it slide.

Thanks in advance,

jane
post #2 of 26
I don't have a suggestion, really, but I wanted to say that I think it's great that you're trying to model this behavior for your children.

I think I would let it slide, though. You aren't going to be able to control what people say to your kids outside your home, so just count your in-laws in with that pack of people who clearly don't share this value with you. Keep modeling the behavior yourself and teaching your kids what you want. Maybe mention it a couple times and then drop it if they don't seem to "get it".
post #3 of 26
I think that grandparents that don't see their grandkids often are sometimes at a loss for conversation. So, while you view it is inappropriate or uncomfortable comments on appearance, for them it may simply be an ice breaker.

I may be totally off base but that was my first thought.
post #4 of 26
No advice here, but just wanted to post to say that we are going through the same with my IL's. MIL has made comments to my ds in the past, but he was really too young at the time to understand the criticism. Now that he is 7 years old, I worry about how to handle this in the future (we see them infrequently and probably won't see them again till the summer). I can see how things she has said to my older niece and nephew have affected their relationship and I fully expect that she won't hold her tongue with my two LOs. For example, she told me 9 year old niece after not seeing her for a year "oh, I see your going through your ugly phase". That was just one of several insults/inappropriate comments made during that visit and my BIL and SIL have really pulled back as far as contact with the grandparents. When my SIL told me about MIL's comment toward my niece I just cried for my niece. My own grandmother used to make similar comments to me as a child and I know it really hurts.

This is really a struggle for me as the "mama bear" in me tends to come out big time when someone insults or picks on my kids.
post #5 of 26
I think I'd just deal with the braces as a one-off issue and not try to tie it into general comments about appearances. Your kids are going to encounter many people who comment on appearances and you're not going to change your ILs' conversational style.

I'd probably call up the ILs and nicely ask them to stop harping on the braces because it is making your child uncomfortable and self-conscious. If they don't, I'd freeze them with "the look" or change the conversation the next time it comes up.
post #6 of 26
I think the best thing you can do it talk to your kids each time before and after and even during the visits. Make sure they know that the inlaws are being inappropriate!!!!!!

Grandparents can do a LOT of damage, even if they only see the kids a few times a year. But you can counter that damage by making sure the kids know the problem is with the grandparents not with them.

You can even make a joke out of it when the kids are old enough. We used to make bets about who would get insulted first, who would get insulted the worst, how many times she would say XYZ, when we would visit my grandmother with the sharp tongue and no manners. It helps us not take it so personally when she insulted us.

And of course we all avoided her like the plague whenever possible. Maybe you need to limit the visits.
post #7 of 26
I totally agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plunky View Post
I think I would let it slide, though. You aren't going to be able to control what people say to your kids outside your home, so just count your in-laws in with that pack of people who clearly don't share this value with you. Keep modeling the behavior yourself and teaching your kids what you want. Maybe mention it a couple times and then drop it if they don't seem to "get it".
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama1803 View Post
For example, she told me 9 year old niece after not seeing her for a year "oh, I see your going through your ugly phase".

post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oztok5 View Post
Yeah, MIL isn't a really nice person, not even to her own kids and grandkids. We really have to limit visits and interaction with her for this reason.
post #10 of 26
Quote:
I think I would let it slide, though. You aren't going to be able to control what people say to your kids outside your home, so just count your in-laws in with that pack of people who clearly don't share this value with you.
Sorry but I do not agree with this. These are not just general people, these are grandparents. This struck a nerve with me because I had a horrible grandmother who said awful things; I will say she was democratic in her awfulness -- she said awful things to everyone.

To me letting it slide is essentially ignoring it. Instead, I would discuss this and state upfront that these are your grandparents and although they love you , they say things that may make you feel uncomfortable. You cannot change them -- you can only change how you react to them. If your kids know these comments are coming they can be prepared.

You might even want to make a game out it. After they leave have a discussion called "What outrageous thing did they say to you?" Having the ability to laugh at such things is a form of power and can be a wonderful lesson to your kids. Good luck!
post #11 of 26
While you may see it as rude to comment on the appearance of others, I'm not seeing anything really damaging in what they did in your examples. I've never had braces or really been around anyone who had them and I'm sure I'd have questions as well. If it was driven by curiosity and wasn't demeaning or harmful, I don't see the issue. Now, if the comments were more along the lines of "I'm glad you have braces, maybe your teeth won't be so ugly now" (example only, not declaring anyone's teeth pre-braces as "ugly") then I would be really concerned. These people are grandparents, people who have a direct interest in your children and how they are doing, and that's bound to fill them with lots of questions and comments about them. Do you not ask your DS about his braces, if they ever bother him, etc? That's different than a stranger on the street because the people who are asking are people who genuinely care. Now, as for asking them about it over and over, I think a good thing here would be to teach your children to politely reply that they aren't interested in talking about it any longer. You're not going to change such an integral part of the in-laws personality, and talking to them will probably just puzzle them and possibly cause problems that simply can't be solved. Teaching your children that it's ok to be polite but not discuss something is a skill they can use the rest of their life.
post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama1803 View Post
For example, she told me 9 year old niece after not seeing her for a year "oh, I see your going through your ugly phase".
To me there is a huge difference between the above and "My how tall you've gotten!" or asking about braces. I'd bet when their own kids were of an age to get braces, it was much different than it is now, and they're are genuinely curious and it presents a good point of conversation. Why can't you simply tell your child that and perhaps suggest some alternate topics of conversation for the child to initiate? Like "Yeah, the braces are sometimes neat and sometimes not... But Grandma - did you know I'm learning about XYZ?"

Obviously, hurtful comments should be nipped in the bud, but questions about braces?
post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for such thoughtful responses! You all have valid points.

I absolutely agree that I can't control what is said to my children outside our home. And part of what I'm trying to teach is how to interpret/respond to the various things they will hear. These interactions with the Grandparents could be great practice for redirecting conversation, not taking things personally, etc.

That said, I also agree with the posters who point out the inherent weight of comments from grandparents. I realize that my examples don't sound particularly harmful, but it is the aggregate of these conversations that makes me worry. The comments are repeated and frequent. The body language and facial expressions that go along with them are negative. They aren't blunt like some of the examples other posters gave--but the implications are there. Sometimes I wonder if that makes it worse, because when someone comes right out and insults you, you can write it off as them being rude, but when it's veiled and subtle, that's not so easy. I used the braces as an example, but I don't think I conveyed the essence of those interactions. I would expect someone who cared to ask some questions. And yes, I ask if anything hurts, too. But it's the particular way my ILs approach these things--everyone who is different is a freak to them and they are extremely critical people--and this attitude is, to me, very visible in the interactions with my kids.

I may also be projecting. After 10 years of listening to their comments about me, my self-esteem has taken a hit. Again, I'm not talking about them saying "You're ugly" or anything like that. But to me, "how much weight have you gained?, have you ever thought about highlighting your hair?, you don't need to wear a bra" on and on, over and over, adds up to "you're ugly."
post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
Oops, posted too quickly!

I'm also concerned about leaving it up to the kids--even with coaching and preparation. While we're huge believers in giving kids the tools to speak for themselves, it feels like a lot to expect them to understand and navigate these complicated dynamics. I see how they respond now...deer in headlights comes to mind.
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane's4 View Post

I may also be projecting. After 10 years of listening to their comments about me, my self-esteem has taken a hit. Again, I'm not talking about them saying "You're ugly" or anything like that. But to me, "how much weight have you gained?, have you ever thought about highlighting your hair?, you don't need to wear a bra" on and on, over and over, adds up to "you're ugly."
You're not going to change them if they do this. Any way you slice it, this is extremely rude.

I may be unusual, and it is hard for me to do this to relatives, but I decided a few years ago that if people are annoying me it doesn't hurt me at all to tell them they are. I mean I'm already irritated, right? Why worry about whether they also get irritated by me bringing it up? So, I'd start finding ways to let them know that saying this kind of stuff about you (and your kids) is not cool. Maybe a perplexed look, or a "gee, I don't know, how much do you weigh?".
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane's4 View Post
Looking for some advice/perspective:
Asking him to show them, then whether they hurt, when he's going to get them off, how often he has them tightened, etc., the same questions, several times. ... Then they go on about how no one they know has braces, and make other comments that make it clear to me that they're not asking out of concern, but out of curiosity. Our DD has 2 stainless crowned teeth, and they go through the same routine with her. They comment on the kids hair, on their height--any physical change whatsoever.
I had braces, and pretty much every adult asked me about whether they hurt, how often I went to the orthodontist, etc. It's kind of like "who's your best friend" to a 2nd grader - just a good, universal topic to use if you don't know what else to say. I know you keep talking about body language, but I do wonder if you're projecting because I just don't see anything menacing about "how often do you have to get your braces tightened?"
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
I had braces, and pretty much every adult asked me about whether they hurt, how often I went to the orthodontist, etc. It's kind of like "who's your best friend" to a 2nd grader - just a good, universal topic to use if you don't know what else to say. I know you keep talking about body language, but I do wonder if you're projecting because I just don't see anything menacing about "how often do you have to get your braces tightened?"

Sorry, I don't know how to quote. It's really not the questions/comments in and of themselves. It's that they ask them over and over in the same tone and with the same look on their faces as when they are being critical. For example, they will ask to see his braces 5 or 6 times while they are here. When he shows them, they will say, "hmmm..." and then launch into the questions again. When he answers, they'll say "hmm." or "oh..." In what I can only describe as a disapproving tone. Again, it's the big picture of all their comments put together that troubles me, not any isolated topic.

Was discussing this with DH, who independently has expressed concern about the comments. He senses that the kids are uncomfortable with it, and said that is enough to warrant a gentle mention to the inlaws. We're thinking of taking it on a case by case basis, "Child x is a little sensitive about physical trait y, so let's not mention it," as opposed to addressing the general behavior and opening up that can of worms.

I also had a really interesting convo with my DD's friend's mom. Her DD is very tall, and gets a lot of comments. Not negative, just comments. She pointed out that any comments about a person's appearance can make them uncomfortable or embarrassed. They don't have to be negative. Her DD has wondered if she is abnormal--because otherwise why would people keep mentioning it? She also had braces growing up and said she got very irritated by people's questions. She said it felt intrusive. Food for thought.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama1803 View Post
"oh, I see your going through your ugly phase".
I might be tempted to reply "Oh apparently you haven't ever left it because that was a very ugly comment.
post #19 of 26
I don't really get it. I guess none of those comments would bother me. Except for the "ugly phase" comment, I don't see any harm in asking about things that one is unfamiliar with, even if it has to do with appearances.
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane's4 View Post
Sorry, I don't know how to quote. It's really not the questions/comments in and of themselves. It's that they ask them over and over in the same tone and with the same look on their faces as when they are being critical. For example, they will ask to see his braces 5 or 6 times while they are here. When he shows them, they will say, "hmmm..." and then launch into the questions again. When he answers, they'll say "hmm." or "oh..." In what I can only describe as a disapproving tone. Again, it's the big picture of all their comments put together that troubles me, not any isolated topic.

Was discussing this with DH, who independently has expressed concern about the comments. He senses that the kids are uncomfortable with it, and said that is enough to warrant a gentle mention to the inlaws. We're thinking of taking it on a case by case basis, "Child x is a little sensitive about physical trait y, so let's not mention it," as opposed to addressing the general behavior and opening up that can of worms.
Ok to do a single quote (1 person only) click on the "Quote" button at the bottom of thier post and it will pop you into the reply editor with the quote embeded at the top. To do a multi-quote (have several different posts in your reply) click the button next to the "Quote" button at the bottom of each post you want to quote ("+), then select Post Reply at the bottom of the screen. (Took me forever to figure out multiquote!)

I absolutely would not tell the inlaws the kids are sensitive about any physical trait. If you percieve that they are picking out things to hit the kids with, that will move that trait to the top of the list. I just don't think you're going to change these people though. I'd start by teaching the kids how to respond and maybe until they are comfortable doing so, have a code action to tell you to step in - like rubbing their forehead. I also agree that once they've irritated you there's no reason not to let them know it. I've always had the philosophy that I would never intentionally be rude to anyone, but once they've been rude to me then it's ok to call them on it.
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