**Update** It's all falling apart...transition from EI to IEP

[2boyzmama]

Exactly 2 weeks before he turns 3, everything is falling apart for Connor's transition from Early Intervention to public schools.

On Friday, everything was moving ahead smoothly (although frustratingly slow) and now today I get a phone call that it's all changing, and NOT IN A GOOD WAY EITHER.

The short version is that they had agreed to send him out of district to a neighboring district that has a preschool classroom with a full time signing interpreter. The class is total communication, meaning that everything is done both verbally and in sign, the teacher signs, the parapro signs, the other kids (both hearing and hearing impaired) sign.

Instead, our local school district wants to hire an interpreter for him so he can attend school here. Which is great, except it means he can only talk to ONE person in the class.

The problem? They are officially meeting the law this way. They are providing him necessary services this way. I can argue all day long that the other program is a better fit for him, but they can (and are) argue that what they're offering is "adequate" as per the law.

So we have a meeting with the Director of Special Education Services on Friday afternoon. First thing I'm going to ask is how they can justify the cost of hiring someone only for him when there is a program already existing elsewhere. I'm also going to argue that this does not meet his social/emotional needs. I'm also going to argue that his verbal speech progression is actually BETTER with sign and when he's in a fully verbal and sign environment.

I'm just so angry right now...it looks like we're heading down the road towards an appeal and/or fair rights hearing. I'm not going to drop it, he needs to be at the other school, and I'll fight whatever I have to to get him there.

I only have 2 weeks to do it though.

[Lindsay1234]

Oh crap. Thats frustrating.

Who called you last week and who called you today? Were they changing a the last second? Can you say something like "Oh, we decided to go with the full communication class" to the in-district people? Maybe sound like you thought it was an option or something?

[askew]

Wow that totally sucks! I hope that someone comes out on your side in this and you don't have to fight all the way to the top.

[khaoskat]

1) Have you already got a signed IEP? If so, what does it say for his placement?

2) You are in Huber or in Dayton? If you are in Dayton, I would love to find out what school has the class with signs. That is one of my frustrations is Aidan did so well in EI with learning signs along with verbal and made things so great for us. And in IEP they don't follow through and they don't know what he is saying.

Fortunately this is our last year in DPS, hopefully next year he will be in Montissori with DS1. I can at least talk with the director and find out which of the two classrooms he will be in, and can than work with the teacher/aid on some of his basic signs so if he gets frustrated they will be able to figure out what he wants.

And Oh, I fully understand the frustration, we had the initial meeting to get his MFE for going from pre-school to school based services. That was back in October. We are now 1/2 way through February and we don't have anything set up or any meetings scheduled and I think there is barely a month left before they have to do it.

One thing to remember is that they have to provide the least restrict environment for him. You may be able to argue that by making him the only kid in class who cannot communicate you are not providing the least restrictive environment.

There is a special colition you can contact for assistance. I cannot think of the name, but you can also ask for assistance for your School's Parent Advisor and there is also an advocate or something like that through the State Board of Education.

[khaoskat]

Another thought. Even if you do not agree with their placement, allow it to go forward while you appeal, etc. Reason being it will show them that what they want to do cannot meet his needs and will only further your cause.

There is only about 9 weeks left till school is out, but it would be a good test to show then they cannot handle his needs. His teacher wont even be able to communicate directly with him, and I have a feeling that having the interpreter in the room is going to be a cause for trouble. If you want her to be verbal with what she signs she is going to be talking over the teacher, and causing a distraction for the other students. She is going to be distracting him from listening/watching the teacher while she catches his eyes to sign, etc.

I honestly do not think they realize how difficult it is going to be. I would maybe recommend that they do a "trial" day, and have him come in for one half day with the interpreter and see how it is going to work in the class and how much of a distraction it is going to be for everyone else.

[~cassie~]

Does he have a TOD that could help you fight this and get them to understand it wouldn't be the best environment?


We are aging out of EI here in 6 mths and will soon be doing my son's IEP and it worries me. Which is why his ST and TOD are both attending to make sure he gets what he needs

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by Lindsay1234

Oh crap. Thats frustrating.

Who called you last week and who called you today? Were they changing a the last second? Can you say something like "Oh, we decided to go with the full communication class" to the in-district people? Maybe sound like you thought it was an option or something?

It was the school psychologist who has been leading me to believe that he was going to be placed out of district. She says that it's the director of special education who has made the decision to instead keep him in district with an interpreter. I've made it quite clear that we want him out of district.

Originally Posted by khaoskat

1) Have you already got a signed IEP? If so, what does it say for his placement?
No, he had his MFE on Feb 5th, we were waiting for transportation to be finalized before habing his IEP meeting.
2) You are in Huber or in Dayton? If you are in Dayton, I would love to find out what school has the class with signs. That is one of my frustrations is Aidan did so well in EI with learning signs along with verbal and made things so great for us. And in IEP they don't follow through and they don't know what he is saying.
Horace Mann is where we want him sent, it's Dayton Public.
Fortunately this is our last year in DPS, hopefully next year he will be in Montissori with DS1. I can at least talk with the director and find out which of the two classrooms he will be in, and can than work with the teacher/aid on some of his basic signs so if he gets frustrated they will be able to figure out what he wants.
The sign in front of Horace Mann says "a montessori school", not sure how that works in a public school...
And Oh, I fully understand the frustration, we had the initial meeting to get his MFE for going from pre-school to school based services. That was back in October. We are now 1/2 way through February and we don't have anything set up or any meetings scheduled and I think there is barely a month left before they have to do it.
Connor's initial transition meeting was early Nov, then his MFE was Feb 5th (although I had to push for it to be that date, they hadn't called me with a date as of 22 Jan, he turns 3 on 3 March)
One thing to remember is that they have to provide the least restrict environment for him. You may be able to argue that by making him the only kid in class who cannot communicate you are not providing the least restrictive environment.
THIS is good!! Thank you, I'll be sure to throw that phrase out there...least restrictive...
There is a special colition you can contact for assistance. I cannot think of the name, but you can also ask for assistance for your School's Parent Advisor and there is also an advocate or something like that through the State Board of Education.

Originally Posted by khaoskat

Another thought. Even if you do not agree with their placement, allow it to go forward while you appeal, etc. Reason being it will show them that what they want to do cannot meet his needs and will only further your cause.

There is only about 9 weeks left till school is out, but it would be a good test to show then they cannot handle his needs. His teacher wont even be able to communicate directly with him, and I have a feeling that having the interpreter in the room is going to be a cause for trouble. If you want her to be verbal with what she signs she is going to be talking over the teacher, and causing a distraction for the other students. She is going to be distracting him from listening/watching the teacher while she catches his eyes to sign, etc.

I honestly do not think they realize how difficult it is going to be. I would maybe recommend that they do a "trial" day, and have him come in for one half day with the interpreter and see how it is going to work in the class and how much of a distraction it is going to be for everyone else.

I think you're right, it will be much more difficult to implement than they realize.

Originally Posted by ~cassie~

Does he have a TOD that could help you fight this and get them to understand it wouldn't be the best environment?


We are aging out of EI here in 6 mths and will soon be doing my son's IEP and it worries me. Which is why his ST and TOD are both attending to make sure he gets what he needs

What's TOD?? We have his ASL teacher fully involved, and letters from Dev Ped and ST.

*************

I discovered last night while researching that Connor might in fact meet the definition of Hearing Impaired, there is an alternate definition in the State Law that requires less loss if there are other complicating medical factors. He is oh-so-close to meeting the alternate definition, he certainly meets the requirements of being "medically fragile" and "other health handicap" as per the law, and also meets the definition of "speech and language impairment".

[RheaSilva]

AGH! Typical bureaucratic nonsense

Would it be possible for the neighboring district to take your son if you pay "tuition" for him? I've heard of this happening when the school isn't over capacity.

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by RheaSilva

AGH! Typical bureaucratic nonsense

Would it be possible for the neighboring district to take your son if you pay "tuition" for him? I've heard of this happening when the school isn't over capacity.

Actually, the school psychologist mentioned this. She said if we turn down what our local school is offering, then we can pay to send him to the other school. (we're currently paying to send our older son to school in our district as a "typical" preschooler, "typicals" pay $30 a week, IEP kids are free).

But, what I don't know yet, is whether he'd still get an IEP if we pay to send him out of district. He still needs services!! First of all, he needs to be put into the one class that signs, not just any open preschool class. And he needs speech therapy and occupational therapy still. Plus he has food allergies, and medical risk factors that need to be on the IEP (pulmonary concerns that require he carry his inhaler and percussion with him, immune deficiency issues that mean we'll be sending a letter home to his classmates regarding coming to school while ill, a swallowing disorder that will require closer supervision during meal time, etc etc, there's more) AND...the other district has a wait list for "typical" kids to get into the program.

So, if he can go there on an IEP, then whatever, we'll pay (although that might be against the law for us to pay for IEP services, you know?) But if he can't have an IEP if we pay to send him there, then I won't send him.

[khaoskat]

Originally Posted by RheaSilva

AGH! Typical bureaucratic nonsense

Would it be possible for the neighboring district to take your son if you pay "tuition" for him? I've heard of this happening when the school isn't over capacity.

Unfortunately, in DPS, it is quite expensive to pay out of pocket, because of how much they spend per child. Right now we (I am in DPS) are spending around $14,000 per child in our public school system.

Also, with it being in pre-school, there are so few openings/opportunities, it would be very difficult.

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by khaoskat

Unfortunately, in DPS, it is quite expensive to pay out of pocket, because of how much they spend per child. Right now we (I am in DPS) are spending around $14,000 per child in our public school system.

Also, with it being in pre-school, there are so few openings/opportunities, it would be very difficult.

Holy crap, really??? We pay $30 a week for Ian to go to public school in Huber! It's only half day, not full day like DPS, but still...it's far from $14,000!!

[khaoskat]

Originally Posted by 2boyzmama

Actually, the school psychologist mentioned this. She said if we turn down what our local school is offering, then we can pay to send him to the other school. (we're currently paying to send our older son to school in our district as a "typical" preschooler, "typicals" pay $30 a week, IEP kids are free).

But, what I don't know yet, is whether he'd still get an IEP if we pay to send him out of district. He still needs services!! First of all, he needs to be put into the one class that signs, not just any open preschool class. And he needs speech therapy and occupational therapy still. Plus he has food allergies, and medical risk factors that need to be on the IEP (pulmonary concerns that require he carry his inhaler and percussion with him, immune deficiency issues that mean we'll be sending a letter home to his classmates regarding coming to school while ill, a swallowing disorder that will require closer supervision during meal time, etc etc, there's more) AND...the other district has a wait list for "typical" kids to get into the program.

So, if he can go there on an IEP, then whatever, we'll pay (although that might be against the law for us to pay for IEP services, you know?) But if he can't have an IEP if we pay to send him there, then I won't send him.

Have you contacted DPS to see if they actually have an opening in the class you are wanting him in?

If there is a waiting list for "non iep" kids in DPS, then likely there is no room in the class. They are moving kids out of Aidan's ECIP class into ECE (and they still get their IEP services) because they have so many kids aging into the program they need the space. They have one class at Aidan's school, with a morning session and an afternoon session, so they can handle 26 kids a school year.

So, maybe right now, HM does not have an open spot in the classroom to put him into.

BTW - Horace Mann is no longer Montissori. They stopped that a few years ago. The only DPS Mont. program left is River's Edge.

If you want to talk more, feel free to give me a call. I will PM you with my cell. I have to head to CMC for Aidan's ST right in a few minutes.

I will see if I have a bunch of the information I got this summer when I was fighting Aidan's stuff a bit. There is a collition for the education of children with disabilities/delays/handicaps, etc that I got it from. I will see if i can find their link, as they will be a great resource. I also have another resource I can dig out as well. Another friend put me onto these.

[2boyzmama]

Oh, this is getting just downright comical!

The school psychologist called me again. I had a bunch of questions for her about this interpreter they plan on hiring. She said that they will post the position, if they don't get anyone, then they'll go through an agency to hire someone.

In less than two weeks! :rotfl

I pointed out to her how absurd that sounds, she said "well, if we don't have someone hired by then, we'll just have a sub until we get someone hired." Uh huh, a sub who is a licensed interpreter and who has experience with a 3 year old?? And just whom do they think this sub is??

She said "well, there might be someone in the district or in a neighboring district that is working part time already that wants more hours."

Yep, she said that.

So basically they have no idea how they're going to implement this IEP that I'm supposed to agree to tomorrow.

I told her straight out how angry I am that I started the proper requests 6 months ago and that now two weeks out it's all falling apart. I told her that I fully disagree with all of this. I told her that the other school provides the best environment for him, meets his needs in the most inclusive and complete way. I also told her that after reading through the law last night (she said "you read the law?" Yep lady, I did) I found an alternate definition of hearing impaired, so I will be arguing that he might in fact meet it.

Then I told her that if we don't come to an agreement tomorrow to send him to the other school, then I will be filing a formal appeal.

She said "well...okay...see you tomorrow." in a fake cheery voice I think I majorly intimidated her, so hopefully she now goes to the Director and warns her that a lion of a mama is going to be in that room tomorrow.

[khaoskat]

I am home now from ST and dropping Aidan off at school.

I am going through my e-mails to find the information. It was sent to me back in August when I was having problems with DPS and figuring out where he was going so I could get his ST re-scheduled and trying to fight a building change.

[khaoskat]

Ok, here is what I dug up.

You will want to contact this agency, and see if they can refer you to your school's parent advocate.

http://www.ocecd.org/

Also, here is a good bit of information on "hearing impairment" other than deafness and what is required...

http://www.ocecd.org/hearingImpDis.php

Basically you get to choose which mode of communication you want to use (they only allow/state Sign Language or oral communication, not a combination of both). Then the school is required to follow through with it.

And I can tell you that most likely there will not be a neighboring district with someone who wants extra hours...I am sure Dayton is full time for most of their ASL's.

Also, I can tell you right now that they will not want to hire in a private agency on a temporary basis, as that will run around $100 or more per hour, and that is 250 a day, four days a week, so that would be $1,000 a week.

Also, contact the Ohio Board of Education regarding an IEP Facilitator... Here is some information on them...

http://www.directionservice.org/cadr...cesA.cfm?id=91

I can look around my living room and see if I have any of the IEP resources easy to find this afternoon from my contact with OCECD. It will explain IEP's and what makes a good IEP.

Another excellent resource to check out this evening before your meeting is Wrightslaw.com It is nothing but an updated resource by a law firm that specializes in Special Education Law.

[khaoskat]

Ok, just found the Parent Mentor for your school district...here is her contact information...

SHARON HONNERT

[e-mail]

937-237-1049

Serves: Huber Heights City

Here is a link to the website I got it from...
http://www.thelinkto.org/parentmento...tm#MONTGOMERY0

[2boyzmama]

Hmm...that link about hearing impairment does not state a required decible loss, it just says it has to effect the child's learning. Under that definition, Connor certainly qualifies as hearing impaired.

It's not clear though whether they are still meeting the law by providing an interpreter, or if I can still request that he attend the other school.

[khaoskat]

I think the key is the least restrictive environment.

Also, at this point in time they cannot guarentee that they will have someone effective 3/3/10 when he enters into their services. Or on 3/4, I know PACE let us send Aidan on the say he turned 3, it was the last day of the week and also the last day DPS was in session before Spring Break that year.

There is also, in that link I believe, a number to contact about the deafness/hearing loss and needs. I think it goes directly to a program that specializes in those types of services and ensuring those needs are met.

I really think your biggest problem is going to be keeping "sick" kids out of the classroom.

Oh, btw, the Public Library has the books listed on Wrights Law that you might want to go quickly check out and browse through. Especially, since you are just beginning the IEP process, it talks about how to write the best, most effective IEP for your child. Ensuring that you have concise measurable goals, etc.

You may also want to ensure that they have an aide working with just him at certain times, especially meal and snack. My experience with at least DPS is that with so many kids in the room that they cannot just watch one child exclusively as there are like up to 14 or 15 other kids in there at times who are demanding both the teacher and aides attention. and they are trying to pass out the snack/meal.

[khaoskat]

I think these are two KEY things you need to focus on in your IEP meeting...

1) If interpreter services are required to support a student in classes or in extracurricular activities sponsored by the school district, the district is responsible for providing the services

2) Ohio's deaf and hard of hearing students often require the services of a qualified educational interpreter to gain access to and benefit from participation in the general education curriculum.

(I am bolding the key in element #2, not the website.)

To find out about interpreter services and requirements for interpreters, parents may contact the Interpreter and Sign Language Resource Center, Ohio School for the Deaf at 614-995-1566.

I think you need to let them know that YOU will be following through with ensuring that the individual "hired" to interpret for your child meets the qualifications of "a qualified educational interpreter". That YOU have contacted the Ohio School for the Deaf, and either have or will be getting what exactly those criteria are.

(Will get back in a few minutes, need to go get dinner started.

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by khaoskat

I think the key is the least restrictive environment.

Also, at this point in time they cannot guarentee that they will have someone effective 3/3/10 when he enters into their services. Or on 3/4, I know PACE let us send Aidan on the say he turned 3, it was the last day of the week and also the last day DPS was in session before Spring Break that year.

There is also, in that link I believe, a number to contact about the deafness/hearing loss and needs. I think it goes directly to a program that specializes in those types of services and ensuring those needs are met.

I really think your biggest problem is going to be keeping "sick" kids out of the classroom.

Oh, btw, the Public Library has the books listed on Wrights Law that you might want to go quickly check out and browse through. Especially, since you are just beginning the IEP process, it talks about how to write the best, most effective IEP for your child. Ensuring that you have concise measurable goals, etc.

You may also want to ensure that they have an aide working with just him at certain times, especially meal and snack. My experience with at least DPS is that with so many kids in the room that they cannot just watch one child exclusively as there are like up to 14 or 15 other kids in there at times who are demanding both the teacher and aides attention. and they are trying to pass out the snack/meal.

Connor's ASL teacher suggested that we write goals like "Connor should be able to play independently with peers" which is something that the school can't do if he has only an interpreter in an otherwise verbal room.

I like the idea of an aide working with him one on one when food is involved, it's something we can certainly request due to his history of food allergies and swallowing disorder (dysphagia with aspiration).

Originally Posted by khaoskat

I think these are two KEY things you need to focus on in your IEP meeting...

1) If interpreter services are required to support a student in classes or in extracurricular activities sponsored by the school district, the district is responsible for providing the services

2) Ohio's deaf and hard of hearing students often require the services of a qualified educational interpreter to gain access to and benefit from participation in the general education curriculum.

(I am bolding the key in element #2, not the website.)

To find out about interpreter services and requirements for interpreters, parents may contact the Interpreter and Sign Language Resource Center, Ohio School for the Deaf at 614-995-1566.

I think you need to let them know that YOU will be following through with ensuring that the individual "hired" to interpret for your child meets the qualifications of "a qualified educational interpreter". That YOU have contacted the Ohio School for the Deaf, and either have or will be getting what exactly those criteria are.

(Will get back in a few minutes, need to go get dinner started.

Yes, I saw that Ohio School for the Deaf had information on what qualifies as an interpreter. I did point out that they can't jsut hire any interpreter off the street, they have to hire someone who is an educational interpreter AND who has experience working with 3 year olds (and even furthermore, 3 year olds with fine motor delays, cognitive delays, and a late introduction to language).

Connor's ASL teacher is coming by tonight with a bunch of info, we're going to compare notes and create a game plan for tomorrow's meeting.

I contacted the parent advocate, but haven't heard back yet.