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I grabbed the doc's hand off my son's penis! - Page 2

post #21 of 45
Good for you hun : as a mum in a country where circ is only for religous and medical reasons i can say my 2 intact sons have never had trouble peeing, my ds caden has before now quite happily pulled off his nappy and pee'd on my shoes the little monster lol.
post #22 of 45
Way to go! It is so important to stand up for our children just like you did!
post #23 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llyra View Post
But the difference is she always asks me first, in an open way that clearly gives me an opening to say no. She clearly tells me, before she does anything at all, exactly what she's looking for, and why, and pauses briefly in case I want to question her or refuse. She's opened DS's diaper twice to check for undescended testicles, and a few times to be able to manipulate his hips better, and a few times to scan for rash. This last time, at DS's three-year exam, she asked HIM if it was okay for her to take a look, and she waited for him to say yes before she did.

When DD1 was 5, the doc asked DD if she could look, and DD refused, and the doctor respected that, and instead turned to me and offered me some suggestions about things to keep an eye on, and asked DD if it was okay if "your mama takes a quick peek the next time you're getting dressed or washed."

That, to me, is what quality health care looks like. A partnership between doctor, child, and parent, with the child's dignity and right to control access to his/her own body respected.
Yes, that makes a HUGE difference
post #24 of 45
My ped hasn't ever tried to take off my sons diaper.
post #25 of 45
I've pushed off a pedi's hand as well. I said no retraction and he moved it and said oh I need to see the meatus (when I asked what TH he was doing)...
Now we are assigned to a NP and when he tried to take of DS's diaper I said he's intact (confused look here, so I clarified), which means he has a foreskin, do not retract it (he closes the diaper without looking at DS' genitals)... He then is like but you retract it right, cause it has to? To which I answered no, the owner of the foreskin will retract it when the time comes. He looked puzzled and moved on.
post #26 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by nia82 View Post
He then is like but you retract it right, cause it has to? To which I answered no, the owner of the foreskin will retract it when the time comes. He looked puzzled and moved on.
I would love to hear these doctors' reactions if someone would ask them if they retract their male dogs' and cats' foreskins, because, you know, otherwise they'd get dirty.
post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSmomtobe View Post
My doctor always takes off my son's diaper to "check his hips" and he is done before I realize he has started. He's never touched the penis as far as I have seen.
That and the lymph nodes in the groin area.
post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlier View Post
I would love to hear these doctors' reactions if someone would ask them if they retract their male dogs' and cats' foreskins, because, you know, otherwise they'd get dirty.
Good one! I am going to remember that.
post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by NettleTea View Post
How can it not seem perverted for a baby's genitals to be touched, held, stared at, etc at pretty much every doctor visit? I mean, if they've been examined once then what else is there to see? Unless, of course, the visit is specifically related to a problem with the genitals. But I've noticed that is rarely the case.

This is not okay:Puke

Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?
post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RheaSilva View Post
Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?
you know....there is that story floating around....
post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RheaSilva View Post
Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
you know....there is that story floating around....

My abuser was a pediatric urologist...My therapist has told me that addicts tend to lean toward professions that keep them in contact with the object of their addiction...Alcoholics working in bars etc.

There was just a ped that was arrested for abusing over 150 children

Quote:
DOVER, Del. (Feb. 22) -- A Delaware grand jury returned a sweeping indictment Monday against a pediatrician accused of serial molestation in what could be one of the worst child sex abuse cases in the nation's history.

The 160-page indictment returned by a Sussex County grand jury charges Dr. Earl Bradley of Lewes with 471 counts of sexual crimes against 103 children.
I actually believe that doctors are simply obsessed with intact male genitals...they have to touch and look...maybe it's jealousy? Maybe it's envy? Maybe it's them desperately trying to find justification for their cut reduced genitals and, f they can continue to find imaginary problems in intact boys, they can continue to believe that being cut themselves and cutting others is the right thing to do.
post #32 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by RheaSilva View Post
Just wondering, but are you implying that peds who include that as part of the WB exam are pedophiles?
All of them? Not at all. Some? Yes.
post #33 of 45
Quote:
.My therapist has told me that addicts tend to lean toward professions that keep them in contact with the object of their addiction...Alcoholics working in bars etc.
What does this say about doctors who perform tens of thousands of child circumcisions?
post #34 of 45
Way to go!! You really did something brave - you should be proud.

I just posted below about a doc retracting my sons penis...and I just stood there. I feel awful. I should have done something. It just shocked me and this man is very intimidating.

No more. I'm not going to be intimidated again (with the new doctor..because I am not going back to one we saw today).
post #35 of 45
Quote:
It just shocked me and this man is very intimidating.
Some doctors use a whole bunch of tricks to intimidate and control. Body language, voice tone etc.

They can talk to you like you have no say in the matter or may order you around without explaining what they are doing, or just do things without saying anything (like sticking a needle into you).

You need to stand up to bullies like that.

Having said that some doctors are reasonable people. Even then you might have to be careful because they might be trained to believe rubbish like infants need to be retracted.
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by nia82 View Post
Now we are assigned to a NP and when he tried to take of DS's diaper I said he's intact (confused look here, so I clarified), which means he has a foreskin, do not retract it (he closes the diaper without looking at DS' genitals)... He then is like but you retract it right, cause it has to? To which I answered no, the owner of the foreskin will retract it when the time comes. He looked puzzled and moved on.

Several years ago I was working a health fair, and a young doctor came over to our booth to talk with us. After a few questions, it was pretty clear that his understanding of intact anatomy and care was off-base. So, I launched into a simple explanation of development (synechia and adhesion), timetable for separation and retraction, and recommendation that the boy be the first to retract, when he's ready.

He blinked a couple of times, then said, "Wow. That is completely counterintuitive. It's a pocket, so you should clean it." He didn't want to budge from this position, and implied we at our booth were providing dangerous advice.

I explained that it was more a fusion than a pocket or fold, and its purpose was to keep a delicate area clean, not collect unclean matter. And it achieves this function really well. Again, he just blinked a couple of times and said, "Wow, I really need to digest this info. It just flies against everything I ever assumed and everything I've ever been taught." He never really thought about natural adhesions until I asked him why he thought a probe had to be run under the foreskin and around the glans before an infant circ. Then the penny dropped.

I could actually see him processing the information, but I could also see a real internal struggle going on. In just 30 minutes he was unlearning 30 years of assumptions, tuition and intuition.

Finally, I just said, "Doctor, why is this so hard? Nature has figured this out brilliantly. Work with the body, not against it." And he got it. He was so happy to finally understand, but it was clear that it took a while for the pieces to fit together. Physicians (and, I assume, nurses) are highly intelligent, but trained to think and act in a very disciplined way -- and much of that involves rote memorization and "going by the book". But sometimes, you really don't get it until you're presented with it "outside the box".

For me, it was instructive to watch him go from stubborn to enlightened. The experience definitely helped me frame the discussion thereafter with health professionals. Doctors who espouse misinformation aren't bad people; they are merely holding on to faulty abstracts instead of searching out and embracing real-life experience. And when it comes to intact penises, the tragedy is that US culture -- including the medical profession -- has lost 2 or 3 or 4 generations worth of first-hand experience by automatically altering the male body at birth.
post #37 of 45

Mother:  I totally agree with what you did.  I married a chinese woman.  We now have a 5 and 4 y.o. boys.  They are both uncircumsised.  We never take them to a regular idiot doctor if at all possible. It is there for a reason (foreskin) and we clean when needed and both boys now are okay with cleanliness. 

post #38 of 45

I love this, and every doctor should treat their young patients with such respect!!

 

One story my mom used to tell me occasionally, as if it were the funniest thing, was about a well child visit when I was probably 2-3 yo. The doctor went to 'check' me (my older sister had labial adhesions as a young girl, so maybe that's what he was checking for? I have no idea), and I guess I sat up and smacked his hand, admonishing him with a stern, "No!" My mom and the pediatrician apparently got a kick out of that. the story always made me uncomfortable, but it was only in recent years that I understood why. I finally asked her, well why wasn't I listened to? Why was I coaxed to allow the dr to examine me when I had just clearly stated my position and feelings on the matter? Because it was 'cute' or 'funny' that I stood up to a man in a white coat? She'd never looked at it from my perspective before, or how it might have contributed to feelings of powerlessness and a later reluctance to ever stand of up authority. Apart from medical necessity or emergency, there is no need to trample on a child's emerging dignity or modesty.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llyra View Post

Our pediatrician, who I trust very much, and who is very much well-informed about the care of the normal, undamaged penis, always opens the diaper at a well-baby check. I don't think that's a problem-- it's a part of their body, like any other, and if I'm paying her to keep an eye on their health, watching for problems in the genital area is part of that.

But the difference is she always asks me first, in an open way that clearly gives me an opening to say no. She clearly tells me, before she does anything at all, exactly what she's looking for, and why, and pauses briefly in case I want to question her or refuse. She's opened DS's diaper twice to check for undescended testicles, and a few times to be able to manipulate his hips better, and a few times to scan for rash. This last time, at DS's three-year exam, she asked HIM if it was okay for her to take a look, and she waited for him to say yes before she did.

When DD1 was 5, the doc asked DD if she could look, and DD refused, and the doctor respected that, and instead turned to me and offered me some suggestions about things to keep an eye on, and asked DD if it was okay if "your mama takes a quick peek the next time you're getting dressed or washed."

That, to me, is what quality health care looks like. A partnership between doctor, child, and parent, with the child's dignity and right to control access to his/her own body respected.

Good for you, OP.
post #39 of 45

i few thoughts.

 

i have twins so i really understand how hectic appointments are!

i tell doctors from the start and on each visit until i realllllly get to know them, that my boy is intact and they are not to touch his penis. i do not say do not retract, because they sometimes dont thing pulling back a little is retracting. i learned this when our wonderful ped who totally greed with me about not retracting still when and almost did it. she really did not think what she was doing "counted"

 

So its "my son has an intact foreskin, he does not retract yet and for my comfort and his safely, I need to tell you to not touch his penis in any way, if you need it moved, i will be happy to"

i also have a rule that my kids are only undressed while in my laps. i will happily hold and take the diaper off for the legitimate things that should be checked.

 

yes the descending testicle thing is more than a one time thing, there is a timeframe where they can go up and down easily and they jsut need to check that htey move properly. they also should check for fluid levels. that also goes up and down at times past the first visit.

 

yes i pay for a whole body check and a large portion of important body parts are covered by a diaper, so it comes off.

 

yeah most well informed moms think they can spot all the problems, but that is not always the case and more importantly they would be remiss in their duties to your child if they took everyone word on who though themselves informed. it is also the i did not know what i did not know things that you go to other people for.

 

by the way, my rules apply to my girl too, i always keep an eye on her labia, if i ever say anything that looked like an adhesions, i would not let my doctor touch her labia at all. i would show them and we would talk about it, but no touching, i would not want then to pull it.

 

 

 

lastly, i want to encourage the original poster to not turn away from WBV all together based on this, you did a great job, now find a ped you like and start off with the talk about foreskins and keep benefiting from the rest of the visit.

post #40 of 45

Wow! I think this is the best thread I have ever read!

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