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What's with the emphasis on meats/fat in Traditional Foods? - Page 2

post #21 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks Preggie, I enjoyed reading your thoughtful post. I agree that the issues at hand are much larger than even we might realize. I just watched Food, Inc. last night after avoiding it for so long because I knew the effect it would have on me. That and I've had the stomach flu for 2.5 days so I didn't want to eat anyways. That is a must watch video (instant on Netflix right now) for anyone interested in this thread at all. A lot to think about!
post #22 of 33
OP, my input isn't nearly as thoughtful as that of the other responders, but it's something that's been fascinating to me. Over in the Dental forum, there's a sticky called Curing Cavities with Nutrition. Part of Price's hypothesis was that more minerals and a lot more fat soluble vitamins were necessary for good dental health--and if you change the diet, you can heal cavities. He did that routinely in his time, apparently, and quite a few people in that thread and in other general threads in Dental have had that experience, which I found fascinating.

There's a well-written blog that pulls in other data sources to round out Price's work, I enjoy reading it and I appreciate that it's well-cited.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
post #23 of 33
One more reason that meat is sometimes emphasized quite a bit in this forum is due to a subset of the TF population, the sickies. Some people with significant, chronic health issues have found that a lot of meat consumption has been helpful for their healing process. A couple years ago when I was near the start of my journey, that was very true for me. As I get healthier, it is losing its importance, but this forum has a sub-population of people trying to recover from tricky health problems and the high-meat (often low-grain) diet is one common pattern for such people.
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
One more reason that meat is sometimes emphasized quite a bit in this forum is due to a subset of the TF population, the sickies. Some people with significant, chronic health issues have found that a lot of meat consumption has been helpful for their healing process. A couple years ago when I was near the start of my journey, that was very true for me. As I get healthier, it is losing its importance, but this forum has a sub-population of people trying to recover from tricky health problems and the high-meat (often low-grain) diet is one common pattern for such people.


That is certainly our case! I can't BELIEVE the health improvements I've seen by upping fat and meat in our diets, and cutting out things like gluten/dairy/soy/corn.

I agree w/ the pps who mention that the emphasis on fat and meat may be largely in part b/c veggies are typically thought of as healthy (and there are TONS of great recipes and ideas all over the place for those), where meat (esp red and organ) and fat is touted as being bad for you. (Tougher to find info on all of that stuff IMO.)

For me, it comes down to what feels best to my body and my family--what foods heal us and make us feel good. I was vegetarian for 12 years, and not in a sustainable way (supported processed soy and gmo corn w/ my purchases 100%). I think my vegetarian diet in part caused a lot of nutrient deficiencies and health problems that have led to my son having health issues as well. I think eating too many processed SAD foods was a HUGE part of it, but I did find that adding in meat (including grassfed beef and organ meats along w/ bone broths) made a HUGE improvement in our health and digestion.

Also, the way I choose to eat now, (largely locally raised grass fed/pastured animals, along w/ locally grown produce) is, IMO, MUCH more sustainable than my old vegetarian diet (and many *typical* veg*n diets that incorperate things like processed soy and corn products supporting Monsanto all the way. I realize there are veg*ns who focus on local foods as well, which I think is awesome--it's just not the majority--just as the majority of meat eaters are not really TF but eat lots of CAFO meat. Shifting the focus to local sources, to me, is more important in terms of ethics and sustainability...)

Maybe check out the book _The Vegetarian Myth_. I've read it has lots to do w/ the ethics and sustainability of all of these issues and may be helpful in your research on this topic!
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
Maybe check out the book _The Vegetarian Myth_. I've read it has lots to do w/ the ethics and sustainability of all of these issues and may be helpful in your research on this topic!

post #26 of 33

Basic run-down of how we came to TF and why

Agreeing once again.

I am on the other side now, coming to a place of actual health and vitality after three decades of chronic illness. I've been on the path of healing since 1998 when the last straw was discovering 2 hard, quarter-sized, immoveable lumps in my breasts.

So I emptied my house. Completely. I started over using what I then learned from Dr. Hulda Clark, building on my previous understandings of microbiology and my concurrent research into pathogens and synthetic chemicals.

The grocery store was like a mine field for me then and coincidentally, my college issued an immediate ban on all solvents (I was in an applied arts college), which was enormously helpful- no more breathing in turps, benzene and toluene, etc... for 10 hrs a day.

Then I went all whole food, no cans, no packages at all of anything, so I discovered the farmer's market. I was 21 at that time, btw. Then after a few years, I became interested in raw foods and we did that for a while and by that time I had my dp and two babies as well. The raw foods were an eight month detox and we all felt super great at a point but then became listless and tired all the time even though we were eating lots and lots of super foods and all whole foods and mostly organic- about 70%. We were eating a mixture of raw and pasteurized milk and cheese for protein as well as lots of soaked nuts and seeds. The raw diet incidentally reduced our meat consumption though, and when we all started feeling low, I suspected that right away.

So we added back in meats, but the meat at the market was CAFO, although I didn't know about that then. After I couldn't even stomach the smell of the meat anymore raw or cooked, I started to suspect there was something wrong with the meat. Around the same time, I had stopped buying chicken because the breasts were as big as turkeys' and I was concerned about that seeming unnatural. I had no farm knowledge at all then; my dp and I started calling it frankenchicken, not having any idea that this term was already in use amongst those in the food-know. We had both read Frankenstein and associated it.

Then I began to search out organic meat. We added it in after another while without during which time we all felt terrible and our babies had black moons under their eyes despite eating so much fruit and vegetable.

We started being okay with cooking more foods since we were again eating meat and cooked it, which reduced the time I spent in the kitchen. I loved raw, but it was time consuming, which is just as well for prepapring me for TF. Although I have the hang of it now and spend considerably less time because I usually have so many things on the go. Now it's more mental energy than physical, like the raw was.

So I became pg and birthed ds3 while in this transitional phase, still eating loads of veggies but also eating meat a few times each week and incidentally following many TF principles because I learned a lot about soaking and real oils and vinegars during our raw phase. I had a very hard time keeping on weight and was shaking all the time from hunger. I could eat all day, and still shake.

I still had all my endocrine problems during this whole time too.

Then we switched to eating only organic everything. And also began a traditional diet. We ate a pound of butter every day. A POUND! Dp lost ten pounds of weight in the first month while being terrified of putting on weight. I lost 15 lbs, but was still nursing and really not wanting to lose weight. To my surprise, losing that weight did not cause the hunger tremors I had before. Instead, I felt fine. Still chronically ill, but better.

Until about 6 months ago, I felt best eating meat three times a day and bone broth too. At breakfast, I ate eggs and red meat, lunch chicken or fish, and dinner a pile of red meat again. I ate lots of green veggies and little fruit.

Now, I am pg again, feel energetic, although I had morning sickness for the first time ever and ended up with a cold and yeast infection after five weeks of eating maybe once/day on a good day. I lost 12 lbs too. Very strange.

Anyway, I'm back on track, and eating lots and lots of liver seems to be what brought me back. My endocrine issues would not even be noticeable if it weren't for my experience in being able to recognise the symptoms. It is so mild that if it were all I ever experienced, I'd have no idea anything was wrong, and I am very sensitive.

I feel good for the first time in my whole life!!!

I am not eating as much meat as I did for a long time. Once or twice a day as long as I've had eggs is what I need now. I don't need to eat as much as I used to either, which is a weird change to experience during pg. Another thing that happened simultaneous to me becoming pg is that my joints tightened up so that my mucsle power doesn't pull them apart anymore. So I'm pg, eating less and have tighter joints than ever in my life.

And it's wonderful to be so huge in the belly already with an active little one in there and still be able to RUN! By this time in other pgs, I was in constant pain and walked as little as possible because my joints were so loose that they'd dislocate frequently just from standing. I have never been overweight either and have always taken advantage of times when I felt a bit better to go thorugh a massive body sculpting, which I didn't know was exacerbating my adrenal and thyroid insufficiency.

Anyway, we still eat lots of meat and fat and also lots of veggies, but it took about four years for us to find a balance of those that feels good for all of us. It's less meat than for a while, much more meat than before that, and for now just right. We don't buy any meat/poultry/fish from the grocery store though- ever. Or eggs.

I thought if I shared this, OP, it might make more sense why we emphasize meats and fats and not vegetables (even though we most certainly eat them), especially with as a couple of pps have mentioned, there are so many sickies on this forum.

Would it make sense now with this history to go back to a mainly vegetable diet? What would be the reason that my body wouldn't revert to the state of illness I was in if I did? Clearly the solution has been to change my diet back to what only two generations before me enjoyed. If this is what is needed by a human being- if this is our specialized diet- then what reasonable conclusion is there other than to eat accordingly?

If I were a panda, I'd eat bamboo, but I'm a human, so I eat meat, fat and vegetables and alittle grain in a certain proportion. The panda can't just switch to azalea flowers, and I can't just switch to veg*n eating or even just less meat than I need because then I'd have less than I need. And I'd be as sick as the panda eating azalea flowers.

The solution to the disappearing bamboo has never been to feed the panda corn, and that isn't the solution to the mismanagement of livestock and the earths fertile soils either, leading to human starvation and illness and large-scale devastation of the earth overall.

So the earth and its inhabitants are in peril. What can we do about this? Can we just go on doing what we're doing or start increasing substitution inputs? Can we just switch to organic CAFOs and monocropping? Can we just make everyone stop eating meat?

I think the solution is going to be a much more personal one, as in each person, and a redistribution of responsibility to the individual, where it always belonged.

Slaughtering my chickens and maybe goats this year will be both an experience of pain and also of gratitude. Certainly it isn't a question of suffering for me; everything that lives does so by the suffering of something/one else, and even if we don't like it, that's still the way it is (even if we eat veg*n we survive by the suffering of others). Eating not enough meat won't stop that, and neither will it fix the destruction of the earth. A radical change in the way we view ourselves on this earth will though, and that won't be possible if we're not even eating what we need to think clearly, let alone do the hard work that is no doubt ahead of us all. That and I do think we have a moral obligation to reduce suffering to the absolute minimal in endeavouring to survive/live, but I also think that cannot be achieved by eating less meat-- that's not even as effective as a band-aid. We have to change how we participate on this earth altogether, completely, a total overhaul.

Seriously, how much can we accomplish as the sickest, least primary/survival skilled, least connected to our true needs generations of human beings ever to live?

Okay. Off my soap box now.
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post
The solution to the disappearing bamboo has never been to feed the panda corn, and that isn't the solution to the mismanagement of livestock and the earths fertile soils either, leading to human starvation and illness and large-scale devastation of the earth overall.

So the earth and its inhabitants are in peril. What can we do about this? Can we just go on doing what we're doing or start increasing substitution inputs? Can we just switch to organic CAFOs and monocropping? Can we just make everyone stop eating meat?

I think the solution is going to be a much more personal one, as in each person, and a redistribution of responsibility to the individual, where it always belonged.
Preggie! Your whole post greatly moved me, and just really inspires me to continually strive for the most traditional, local, sustainable way of living I can (for the health of myself and my family and the world--amazing how what's really good for *us* is good for *everyone*). Just thought your post was fabulous!
post #28 of 33
I agree with the PP's about needing less meat as you regain health. I started out eating a ton of meat. We were lucky to find not too expensive organic pasteured beef, and chickens, and eggs. Now I eat far less meat, I eat a TON of veggies, some fruit, lots of pasteured eggs, and finally, finally after 3 years of this way of eating and a move, I found a source of fresh, raw milk from a pasteured cow (my kids actually met her today, and my ds (3 yo) said "Hi cow, thank you so much for your milk"). I only eat meat 1 *maybe* 2 times a day, the rest is eggs, milk, coconut oil, coconut milk, nuts, veggies, etc.

I really agree with the local part too. I am very thankful to be living somewhere where a good portion of what I eat comes from the community I live in. As the weather warms up, even more will, and I hope that we can have our own garden too.
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyRae View Post
Preggie! Your whole post greatly moved me, and just really inspires me to continually strive for the most traditional, local, sustainable way of living I can (for the health of myself and my family and the world--amazing how what's really good for *us* is good for *everyone*). Just thought your post was fabulous!
Glad you liked it.
post #30 of 33
Quote:
I am very thankful to be living somewhere where a good portion of what I eat comes from the community I live in. As the weather warms up, even more will, and I hope that we can have our own garden too.
I know there are multiple moms on this forum who really have very limited or no access to farmer's markets, locally raised meat, etc. I feel soooo fortunate to have some great, pretty affordable, local options, and hope that the locavore movement continues growing so that more an more folks have access to fresh, local, sustainably produced foods. (I really think it will--the demand is out there and getting bigger! )
post #31 of 33
It can be really hard, for sure. I was for a while looking into keeping quails and rabbits because they are decently suited to city environments in enclosures in backyards, but the cities that have chicken bylaws also cover every type of fowl, so quails were not the way around that. Rabbits are sometimes not covered in Canadian city bylaws though, so I considered keeping them for wool and meat (two types, obviously).

If you had a big house and basement or sunroom and lots of light and space to make it actually healthy for the animals, I suppose you could keep these smaller animals indoors. You'd still be subject to bylaws, though so if you didn't care about that, you couldn't tell anyone about your 'operation.'

Most cities have so many bylaws that it is impossible to do what is actually needed to be healthy. I always found it so despicable that there could be two KFCs within one city block pumping out the most horrid stench, perpetuating a host of systematic destructions (CAFOs, oil industry, noise and traffic, etc...) and serving non-food that was making every patron sick, but keeping six chickens in my backyard was considered a nuisance.

Was it the noise? The smell? The sanitation issues? I am very sure these issues are not taken that seriously when two KFCs can be operationg amongst myriad other nasty-food chains along a single city block. My friends shared an alley with a very busy full serve fuel station with mechanics, and chickens were not allowed in their backyard. Seriously, a few chickens is what we're concerned about???

If you have to live in a city, then I'd definitely push those bylaws and try to have them changed and in the meanwhile definitely support locally produced real foods.

I didn't find that yielded satisfactory results for us, so it took us 5 yrs from the time we decided that we had to leave the city and 4 yrs of moving incrementally out and away from it to have actually ended up where we want to live. We have been out of the city for nearly four years now, but it's just since this past December that we are beginning our own journey to self-sufficiency in a practical way. Until now we have relied heavily on local farms and still will for the next few years as we age our compost and prepare the land for growing and housing ourselves and livestock.

So I absolutely stand with those who express gratitude for farmers/growers who provide us with real food. I think this journey would be seriously hindered or even impossible for us without them.

Oh, and birth and nurse a new baby. We'll be doing that too. A surprise that we've recognised will likely move the major work to next year rather than this one as planned earlier, but that's real life, and that's all right with me.
post #32 of 33
In many locales it is possible to get a variance. You have to get permission from all neighbors that would be affected and go to a hearing, and depending on the variance get it renewed periodically. Usually you go through your zoning department.
post #33 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiandmoi View Post
In many locales it is possible to get a variance. You have to get permission from all neighbors that would be affected and go to a hearing, and depending on the variance get it renewed periodically. Usually you go through your zoning department.
In Canada, it really depends on the province. The territories are more variable, but not in the cities usually (regulated heavily usually). But if you want livestock in the territories, it's super easy to live on the outskirts anyway.

In Ontario, we lived 7 hrs north of Thunder Bay and this is how in-town livestock was handled- on a case-by-case basis. Essentially the town council had to be convinced. Most of the time it was easier to just do it, then deal with the council afterwards because the process of getting 12 people to agree took so long or just was held up indefinitely.

When our friend wanted to start his homestead and farm, he ran for council and won a seat, which is how he ended up being able to do what he wanted to do (and made it possible for others too).

That's one way to do it, I guess. It was horrible for him though because he is such a libertarian/anarchist that he couldn't even finish his term- too many stress headaches and stomach-aches. I couldn't have even brought myself to run for office...

So, wow, if that's the way it is done in many areas of the US. Canada is very highly regulated in any of the more populous areas (cities closer to the border) and anywhere in Ontario and Alberta is much more bylaw-crazy than other areas of the country. The far north of everywhere is easiest to manoeuvre.

We have about ten times more gov't employees than the USA, and the USA has ten times more population.
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