Budget Help?

[Phoenix~Mama]

Trying to see if I missed somewhere where I could possibly cut my budget even more to possibly survive on a single budget... Thanks for the help!


I bring home $1800/month

Fixed Expenses
Childcare ~ $320/month (this only works if H will still care for DD in the mornings, if he decides to be a tool, other than being screwed, daycare will then cost $800/month

Car loan ~ $412/month (still owe another two years on it.)

Car insurance ~ $80/month

Gas for car ~ $120/month

Phone ~ $50

--> P/T daycare = $982 leaving a whopping $818 left over for rent, utilities and groceries... not going to happen as even one bedroom apartments in my are are going for $700/month and all utilies would still need to be paid.

--> F/T daycare = $1,462 leaving $338

And yes I have run talked to counselors (including one at a DV shelter) and run my income on the state's screening site myself for any possible aide... I don't qualify.

So am I missing something? The only thought is to forfeit the car... except then I have no way to get to work. I don't live in an area with much public transportation. If I forfeit the loan, I won't get approved for a smaller loan on a junk car...

[JollyGG]

How much is the car worth?
How much do you owe on it?

[SophieAnn]

Car Loan: Not sure how your car loan is structured (bank, dealership, rules...) but wouldn't it be possible to sell your car, pay off the loan and then use the money left over to buy a cheapo car? Until recently I was driving a '93 Honda Accord, and when I sold it for $1600 it still had years of use left.

Childcare: Is there less costly childcare available to you? Daycare centers tend to be quite a bit more expensive than home daycares or babysitters. Could you consider a home daycare, or a friend/neighbour? Someone in your birth activist group who is a SAHM? Someone from church?

Honestly if you just simplify things down to income minus childcare, you're looking at a net income of:

$1480 with daily invovment of your stbx (and you can't really expect that he'll be reliable or that this would be a good situation for you...)

So more realistically you're looking at a net income of $818 or $338. Neither are livable. Add in the car loan and it's a net of $412 or -$72.

Really in that situation aren't you better off quitting your job and going on assistance? No job yes, but you could get rid of your car and you would save on the expense of childcare as well. Working in that situation just doesn't make sense when the cost of working (car payment, insurance, gas, childcare) is greater than the income from working.

[Phoenix~Mama]

The car is worth not enough to cover the loan. I actually looked at re-financing it last year and found out there is over a $5,000 gap in blue book value and what is left on the loand. So no, I can't sell it and get a cheaper car as I'd still have money left to pay on the loan. I couldn't get the re-finance loan for lower payments because of the gap.

I am going to look into possibly getting a personal loan to pay it off, and that should give me a lower monthly payment... if I qualify.


As far as quitting my job? I admit I don't know a whole lot about the aide things... but from some people I know that use them, they have to show they are proactively trying to obtain a job to better themselves and get off assistance.

As for daycare... DD is already in a homebased care with a SAHM. I utilized my employee assitance program to scout out all care providers in my area that offer lower rates... and $200/week is the lowest rate here. Most places wanted $250+!!

My area is seriously seriously ridiculous.

I'm not ready/comfortable with reaching out to my birth group because I don't feel as though I know any of the ladies well enough to even open up about this stuff... I do not belong to a church.

[SophieAnn]

Originally Posted by JSMa

As for daycare... DD is already in a homebased care with a SAHM. I utilized my employee assitance program to scout out all care providers in my area that offer lower rates... and $200/week is the lowest rate here. Most places wanted $250+!!

That is ridiculous! Must be a regional/city thing...

Hmm. If the going rate for home-based daycare is $200-$250 per week, and you currently take home about $450 per week... (assuming 4 weeks per month).

Have you considered becoming a SAHM home-daycare provider instead of your current job? You'd only need to look after 2 kids in addition to your own, and you'd be making the same amount as you currently make - with no daycare costs (effectively "earning" $1,462 more than you would net in the F/T daycare scenario).

[JaysMama]

Have you thought of going back to school? You could quite possibly live off of what you have left over after tuition, books etc are paid for. Maybe work a pt job to supplement. Most schools have child care available and you would be able to receive aid. Look into a roommate to share the rent?

[_ktg_]

I'm coming up with the same as the other posters when I crunch the numbers for your budget.

I think you may want to consider leaving your job to qualify for GA as defined by PA TANF. If you think about the whole situation - are you even going to be in a position to want to work and leave DD in daycare right away??

If you'd qualify - you & DD would qualify for medicare and probably WIC resources too.

Do you have any savings or retirement funds you could cash in towards the car loan and try to sell it to make the remainder? Possibly purchasing a much cheaper but reliable one?

I'll keep thinking on this

[mrsdocmartin]

Originally Posted by SophieAnn

Have you considered becoming a SAHM home-daycare provider instead of your current job? You'd only need to look after 2 kids in addition to your own, and you'd be making the same amount as you currently make - with no daycare costs (effectively "earning" $1,462 more than you would net in the F/T daycare scenario).

This is exactly what I was going to say.

[doubledutch]

what is your gross monthly income, and what are the withholdings? i ask because you said you won't qualify for child care assistance, and the cutoff for a family of 2 is $29,140. if you are making more than that, but only bringing home $1800 per month, then i'm curious about your deductions and whether they can be adjusted to reflect the fact that, when you pay your 2010 taxes, you'll be a single mom paying $9600 in daycare costs. if you can have less money withheld for taxes - even if you only bring home an additional $100 per month - that will help.

another thing to consider is, if you are just above the income guidelines (for child care assistance, wic and other stuff), would your employer allow you to drop to around 30-34 hours per week? that would help your dd adjust to the changes, by having more time with you, and would allow you to qualify for assistance, ideally without losing your full-time benefits (like health insurance). here, 32 hours/wk is considered full-time, but i don't know what the laws are for being eligible for benefits like that in pa. i'm not suggesting you do this now, but after you leave. for now, i'd take all the work you can get so you can save up. in any case, this is just a maybe-possibility.

personally, i would continue to try to earn as much as possible after becoming single, even if it meant also picking up one early or late shift on the weekends while dd visited grandparents or close friends for free. i just wanted to mention that, if you're right on the border of qualifying for assistance, you may be better off with lower income, day care assistance, WIC, etc (once you are on your own).

i think you can make a plan to be out of there by june. by adjusting withholdings, you could put away that "extra" money you're bringing home, along with anything else you can scrape together in the next few months. maybe you have a friend who would like a babysitter one evening a week. even if that only gives you an extra $50 a month, that will help, when money is this tight. when you're ready to leave (or have enough cash) you can buy a cheap car for cash and get out of that loan. here's what that plan would give you to work with:

income: $1900 (or possibly more, depending on how much you are currently having withheld and how much you are comfortable adjusting that)
daycare: $800
car ins: $80 (possibly less, with cheaper car)
gas: $120
rent & util: $600 - i know, you said the cheapest 1br is $700 . . . so get a 2br or 3br and a roommate.
$300 groceries and other personal necessities

do you think that's workable? i have no idea how much childcare assistance pays, so i can't run that possible budget for you. the one above is scary in that it doesn't allow for savings or emergencies, but i kind of think you can do a bit better on rent if you are willing to look at this as a temporary situation and find an inexpensive (but safe, of course) place that you and dd could stand to live in for one year. again, you could also babysit one evening a week, or do something one morning/evening per weekend, or something.

what kind of work do you do? is there any possibility of dd accompanying you to work? or of you finding another job that would allow that, or allow working from home?

i understand the idea of doing in-home daycare so you wouldn't have to pay daycare, but it would be nice if you could avoid daycare costs for dd, while also continuing to be an employee, so you can keep your benefits and don't have to, say, buy food and other supplies for the children you're watching.

[doubledutch]

what is your current budget? if you don't have one, make a list of your combined income and fixed expenses. then look at what's left, where it's going, and what can be cut back.

for example, i think (forgive me if i've got the wrong person) your dh called/texted you this morning to ask whether you want pizza or chinese food for dinner tonight. okay - i understand when both parents are busy, sometimes the convenience is nice. but then get a $5 frozen pizza instead of a $20 delivery, and work toward meal planning for both thriftiness and convenience.

i understand you guys are probably not living extravagantly at all right now, yet there may be places where you can save $10 here and $20 there. that will add up.

also, see what you have that you can sell. dd's baby stuff. your grandma's dishes. jewelry you don't care about. CDs and DVDs. your pre-baby clothes, if they don't fit, or your maternity clothes. furniture you don't like and don't use. whatever you can. i don't mean as a way to generate an income, but just to build up your cash as you prepare to leave.

[doubledutch]

more thoughts (i'm thinking about you a lot!) . . .

what is the rent at your current place? how many bedrooms? does it include utilities? if a 1br apartment is $700/month, what do you think you could charge in rent for one bedroom in your house?

the tax refund. i saw that your dh owes your parents for a personal loan for his car, and you guys owe a city tax. what are those two dollar amounts, and how much do you expect your refund to be? when will you guys file taxes? do you get the refund directly deposited into a joint account? if so, what i would do is pay the taxes owed to the city. then something to consider is what percentage of the refund do you believe is yours? half? i would immediately take that percentage (of what's left after paying the city tax) out and deposit into your personal account. dh can use his portion to pay off the car loan. if it doesn't cover it, well, i guess he needs to make payments to your parents until he gets it paid off.

it's his car, right? registered in his name? and he certainly hasn't been making half of your car payments . . . even though he owes the money to your parents and you know they need the money, you need to be smart and look out for yourself and your daughter before you worry about repaying dh's debt to your parents. after paying the city taxes, please take your part of the tax refund. it is YOURS and you need it.

[Kiernan]

Are you assuming no support from your husband? He ought to be paying for half of childcare, at least, even if you share custody. I think I've seen in your other threads that he pays quite a lot in support to his older daughter, so maybe that is your concern, but legally he is responsible for your daughter as well and perhaps those numbers could be adjusted to reflect a change in status.

I would hesitate to leave a job with benefits in this economy, though I admit I don't really know how much or what kind of aid is available and that might turn out to be a good option for you.

[karkli]

You can easily cut the $50 for the phone down. Instead, use a prepaid cell phone and use it only for necessary calls and emergencies. You could probably get away with spending less than $25/mo...maybe even under $10/mo. if you're careful.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Okay, someone asked whay my gross was... be prepared to cry how much is taken. lol

My gross per week is $660

I contribute 6% to my 401K - $39.60

I bought a week of vacation for the year, because let's face it with a LO and my having a chronic illness, I miss a bit of work, the extra week paid time off helps, I already exhausted a whole week between snow, DD being sick, and my babysitter being sick. I forget what the pay out on that is a paycheck, it was some sort of percentage of weekly pay, I'm pretty sure it's only $25/pay, so roughly $12.50/week I think?

Here's a fun twist with the car BS from my UAV... he jumped on the first car he saw with the money we borrowed from my parents... well it was such a POS, it would have cost another $2,000 to fix it just to get it to pass inspection... and the fix wasn't garanteed, so...

I took out a loan on my 401K to buy another car for H. *sighs*

So I'm paying $25/week back into my loan... this is mandatory. And also why I can't just leave my job because I'd be responsible for paying whatever portion the percentage works out is company contributed to the 401K fun/loan.

So I am definitely locked into my job... and I have been here for two years already. Not my most favorite job, but jobs are HARD to come by in this area, especially making what I'm making right now. I'm sort of a Jill of all trades in computer type stuff. I'm currently tag-teaming departements at work, I'm a master data specialist (working with SAP) and helping accounting with various projects too.

I never finished my degree... it became too hard to work and go to school with having fibro and something had to go. Plus I'm still not sure "what I want to be when I grow up". lol I used to be in procurement... then all the buying offices I had worked for kept closing and downsizing. Then I went into web design... but that was back before things got super complicated with all the programming flashy new web stuff that is going on now. My brain did not comprehend programming well, like java script... it was hard for me to figure out and I didn't so well in that class.

I have tried actually trying to get H to be on board for months with me starting an in-home daycare, but we would have to have a couple months of my salary saved up till I built a client base. And it hasn't really been something I pushed because we don't have a fence closing our yard off from the street...

My current rent is $760/month for a 4 bedroom house. It covers water/sewer/trash. My parents are charging us bare minimum as you can see, just to cover the mortgage payment.

We have to pay electric, and it's electric heat base boards in the upstairs, and the big hit is the oil tank that heats the rest of the house... we just put 150 gallons in it this week and it cost almost $400.


I am concerned about how much CS I'd get because H already pays 43% of his pay. The most PA will take from a pay is 55%... leaving me with getting 12%. They do not change first CS orders because "first families first" if you wanted to have more children after that, you should have thought about that I guess...

Which we did... and we get by okay right now... but yes, it means I do not get much CS at all.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by doubledutch

what is your gross monthly income, and what are the withholdings? i ask because you said you won't qualify for child care assistance, and the cutoff for a family of 2 is $29,140. if you are making more than that, but only bringing home $1800 per month, then i'm curious about your deductions and whether they can be adjusted to reflect the fact that, when you pay your 2010 taxes, you'll be a single mom paying $9600 in daycare costs. if you can have less money withheld for taxes - even if you only bring home an additional $100 per month - that will help.

Yes, look at your deductions. How much is deducted in federal taxes? Since you are getting a refund this year, you are already overpaying--even considering the two income bracket. You could adjust your deduction to bring that money home each month. Just eyeballing the numbers, I am guessing that will give you a few hundred additional dollars to support you and your dd each month as a single mom.

Also, strongly consider renting a room in another woman's house. With the downturn in the economy, and people stuck in homes they can not easily afford, many people are renting out a room.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by JSMa

My current rent is $760/month for a 4 bedroom house. It covers water/sewer/trash. My parents are charging us bare minimum as you can see, just to cover the mortgage payment.

You could stay there, make dh leave (don't worry about where he goes...he can figure it out himself), and rent a room to another woman/mom for $350-400 a month.

Heck, rent 2 or 3 bedrooms, and make a profit!

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by sunnmama

You could stay there, make dh leave (don't worry about where he goes...he can figure it out himself), and rent a room to another woman/mom for $350-400 a month.

(plus 1/2 of the utilities)

Sounding like a good idea with your budget, you are looking at a shared housing situation. Ask if anyone in the birthing group has a room in their house available, or knows someone who does. (if you are in York County, pm me)

I think you can decrease the phone cost as others have mentioned, and even (gasp!) drop the 401k contribution if you are under 30 years old.

In 2 years, your car loan goes away... that will mean more room in your budget for 401k, housing, etc. When your daughter turns 5, you are looking at public school + aftercare. (lower daycare cost) At that point, you could consider online classes, one at a time, to finish your degree (not sure how far you got with it).

I think you can do it. Ask your parents for financial help if you need to.

I am hoping your fibro will get a little better as you remove the source of stress from your life

[cheer mom]

i've heard you say several times that your DH pays 40% of his income for child support. Is that 40% after deductions? I have to say that I would really question this. Is it that he is underemployed? Have you seen the court papers and stuff? Have you checked the PA child support website to check it yourself?

[Phoenix~Mama]

Originally Posted by cheer mom

i've heard you say several times that your DH pays 40% of his income for child support. Is that 40% after deductions? I have to say that I would really question this. Is it that he is underemployed? Have you seen the court papers and stuff? Have you checked the PA child support website to check it yourself?

I have checked the state calculator... and technically it's right. It was supposed to go down this year because of DSD being in full time school and so his contribution to childcare was supposed to go down. However, his ex enrolled DSD in private school without consulting him, but he still feels obligated to pay towards it and so didn't bring up about his CS going down this year.

Also his ex carries the medical insurance on DSD, so his CS goes towards that as well.

He is not underemployed... in fact he is making more money now than he did when they first split and the calculations were done. I really don't understand how PA expects non-custodials to live on what they percentage they take.

So that is another reason we have not tried to fight CS because we are afraid of them taking even more. We know DSD's Mom has gotten two promotions/raises since they split, so we think she makes about the same amount of money as him.

I have run the calculator and after what they would take for my DD's CS, it'd leave H $800/month to live on. Obviously no one can do that. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Aridel]

I would consult a lawyer on the child support regulations. I know there are lawyers and custody agreements that don't follow the guidelines, but PA state law says that all families should be equal; support should not be reduced due to your child being from a second family, though they will avoid taking so much he can't live off the rest, as judged by them.

Here is the site with the relevant laws, and examples to explain them. It was linked to from the PA state child support site.

Some relevant quotes, bolding mine:

Rule 1910.16-7. Support Guidelines. Awards of Child Support When There are Multiple Families.

(b) When the total of the obligor’s basic support obligations exceeds fifty percent of his or her monthly net income, the court may consider a proportional reduction of these obligations. Since, however, the goal of the guidelines is to treat each child equitably, in no event should either a first or later family receive preference. Nor shall the court divide the guideline amount for all of the obligor’s children among the households in which those children live.

One of their examples involves support for children from a second marriage:

Example 2. The obligor is sued for support of three children of a second marriage. There is already an order in effect for two children of the first marriage. The relevant monthly net incomes are $1,000 for the obligor, $0 for the first spouse and $500 for the second spouse. The guideline amounts for each family are $229 for the two children of the first marriage and $422 for the three children of the second marriage for a total support obligation of $651. Since this total obligation leaves the obligor with only $349 on which to live, the order for the three children of the second family is too high. However, reducing the order for three children while leaving the existing order intact would give preference to the first family, contrary to the rule. Therefore, both orders must be reduced proportionally.


I am not a lawyer, but they seem to say pretty clearly that you would not just get whatever is left over after he pays CS for his elder daughter.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about how he is going to live on his income, or where he will live - he needs to figure that out. Take care of yourself and that wonderful little girl!