ableist language sticky or something? - Page 4

[PGTlatte]

I can easily see asking people to avoid the word "crazy" when they are talking about another person in a negative way. But it can be used in so many other ways, and if a community is going to suggest that "crazy" not be used at all, it may become challenging for members to express themselves at times...and I really like being able to say what I mean and have it understood. So I was doing some thinking about alternatives I might use in place of "crazy" or "nuts". BTW all of these are 100% true, in this present moment of my life today:

"This morning was off the hook; our 4 yo DS is driving me up the wall today; and right now our biggest, loudest dog is going apesh&t barking because he can hear the mail carrier's jeep...and the part that makes me feel the most is that he has done this every day for over four years now. "

I'm not sure how offensive the terms "crazy" or "nuts" or similar words would have been in that paragraph; I have never been in a situation in which I felt hurt by the use of those terms, so I can only guess as to how others might feel when they read them. I am curious as to whether "crazy" and "nuts" are equally offensive in all ways of being used or whether it is just when they are used in a negative statement about another person. I could easily avoid using them to describe someone and find other ways to express my thoughts. But I wonder if this amount of creative effort is justified for usages that might be less offensive, because they are talking about a day or a situation ? And what about when I am talking about my own state of mind, not someone else's ? As for my dog....I do not mean to make light of mental illness, at all - but I would really have to stretch to think of adjectives for him that completely avoid that area. It's just the way he is...I completely love him and accept him...but his behavior is what it is...I would be unsure as to how I could even talk about it. Not to digress but I am pondering situations in which trying to avoid certain words that might be related to mental illness, but still say what I mean, might become difficult.

[Kelly1101]

Originally Posted by VisionaryMom

There aren't any words accepted universally as derogatory. Even the worst racial slurs that come to mind are used as positives in a reclamation sense.



And not all people of African descent have a problem with the n-word, so should we start using it?

Nope, the n-word is a perfect example of a word that is absolutely universally accepted as derogatory. Sure people may disagree, but it is not used in polite conversation, it is not used in the media, a politician isn't going to use it, and if you use it it's pretty obvious that people are going to find it offensive even if it doesn't refer to them.

Same, to a lesser extent, with the r-word. I think there has been some uproar recently about a politician using it and being taken to task.

That is not the case with using "crazy" "making choices blindly" etc. in conversation. Some people may not like those words, but in our culture they are not considered to be derogatory or hateful towards a particular group of people.

It's pretty obvious you have very little experience with the mental health community, or you wouldn't blame a dislike of words like "insane" (again, not even a mental health term but misused by people who are uneducated about it) on personal experience. The discussion of these issues is widespread within the mental health community; they're not about a handful of people who don't like them. Take some time to read up on the issue, and you will find it everywhere. Glenn Close has a new organization to fight mental health stigmas, and she has lots of good information on her site about it.

Respectfully, you know nothing about who I am or my experiences, and I have no interest in an ad hominem argument.

You keep talking about colloquial expressions, and we are talking about adjectives. To say "that seems crazy" in reference to an event is entirely different from saying "your husband is obviously crazy."

No, we are talking about colloquial expressions. "Making choices blindly" or "that's lame" or "man I have so much going on right now I feel like I'm going crazy" are colloquial expressions. I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I was talking about.

[georgia]

Hi, everyone. Please be respectful of my previous request:

If we can please refrain from making this discussion personally pointed, I would appreciate it.

Personal disagreements should be taken to PM so this thread can remain on the board. If you have questions about the rationale behind my request, please PM me. Thanks!

[AFWife]

So, I can understand where many are coming from with the "crazy" term. If I say, "running around like a crazy person" (a fave from my mom actually) I can understand how that could hurt someone's feelings that has a history of being "crazy" (I don't mean that last one to be rude...just to quantify what I'm getting at here) But does using the word in other contexts do the same thing? Can I just post a few phrases and you can tick off yes/no for me? For clarification?

- The laundry on the floor is driving me crazy

- It's raining like crazy

- He's crazy about Ritz Crackers

- Your mom sounds crazy

- That's insane! I can't believe it costs that much!

- The constant rain is kind of depressing

- I've been manic about cleaning today!



Just a few. Thanks in advance.

[JessicaS]

I just want to note that the R word is something we actively encourage edits on.



It isn't an appropriate term but there is some reclamation. It just depends on context.

[lolar2]

Thank you all for all the input-- I got slowed down by something in my "real life" but I should be able to get at least a basic draft to the mods tomorrow morning.

[AFWife]

Any word on this?

[dziwozony]

it was good timing for me to find this...someone had used the term "ableist" the other day & i had no idea what it meant. it's something i haven't had the right mindset for, so brining this language up is helpful.

i have always considered "lame" to be a mild word, never even thinking it could be offensive! in fact, when people like my little sister (15yo) would use the word "gay" in a negative way without even meaning it to be anti-homosexual, i would say, "you mean lame, right?"....without even realizing i was giving her another offensive word to use!! i'm really glad this was brought to my attention.

another example is to say someone is acting like a "spaz"...the use of this term for the mentally disabled was a bit out of my generation...i had never heard it used this way & had no idea it was even linked to that!

so sometimes, these things just need to gently be brought to people's attention. i'm always grateful when it is. so i think the sticky is a great idea for people to reference.

[CorasMama]

Originally Posted by abimommy

Hello!

We don't have a sticky on able-ist language. If you would like to write something on it please feel free and then notify an administrator. We can certainly look at it. We would be delighted to have members submit information for the benefit of the community.

The r-word isn't seen a lot because we generally encourage people to educate one another about the word and a lot of that is done via pm by moderators, granolas or other members.

Ideally we would have any such issues with words worked out in threads between members. It doesn't always happen that way but that is our goal.

How, exactly, are we supposed to do that without crossing that invisible vague "taking issue with another poster" line? (That's not snark, that's a genuine question.)

[georgia]

We encourage members to discuss the post's contents but not make the response about the poster. Making the discussion negative about the poster or participants is often considered taking issue. Respectfully discussing the topic or contents of a post you disagree with, rather than expressing your displeasure with the poster, is typically how to avoid "taking issue."

For example, if someone posted:

"Gah, that business really gypped me!"

and someone responded:

"Actually, the term "gypped" is considered by many to be offensive to the Romani people because "gypped" is believed to be derived from "Gypsy." The term "gypped" is now widely seen as stereotypical and hurtful since the term means swindled or cheated. It's considered offensive, so I would not use the term.

This would be fine.

vs.

Your ignorance shows when you use ethnic slurs, genius.

Not fine.

The first response appears to be posted educationally and respectfully with the intention of sharing information the poster might not have realized or understood. The second response is directed at the original poster, who we may assume has no idea that s/he is being offensive when using the term. By posting respectfully to educate, the thread can continue. When someone posts to "take issue" and make it about the poster rather than the post, the thread is derailed and will most likely have to be removed for UA violations and then the opportunity for learning and future reference is lost.

Insulting someone to show them they are insulting is not productive since the goal would be to educate. Word etymology is often subject to great debate, but we'd like to do our part, as a community, to keep discussion respectful so we can all learn from each other and each do our part to foster awareness and understanding.

From MDC's Web Statement of Purpose:

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If anyone would like to discuss taking issue in further detail, it's best to start a new thread so we can keep this discussion about ableist language, thanks