What exactly is CIO? - Page 3

[annettemarie]

Hee. We're just starting Daniel, my almost-three, in his own bed, at least to start, and with him it's Away in the Manger.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by abimommy

But if I am sad or lonely I can communicate that. If I want a hug I can get some from my daughter or my husband. If I am lonely I can call one of my sisters on the phone. We all need human contact and communication, babies most of all.

If my son is crying to be held I hold him just as I would if my nine year old was wanting some cuddles or my husband was wanting to snuggle.

If my nine year old had a nightmare I wouldn't just leave her alone in a dark room by herself. I would discuss it with her, maybe get her some chocolate milk and give her lots of hugs and then send her to bed once she was comforted, or I would let her climb into our bed if it was too scary.

Needing love and affection is just as valid of a reason as needing to be changed or hungry.

Yes. Yes. Yes. If dd2 is crying, and not staring at my boobs, and her diaper is clean and dry, then she "just" needs me. That's okay with me. Hugs and snuggles are important in my life, so why wouldn't they be important in hers??

Honestly, when I was in labour with Aaron, I wanted my mommy (and, yes - that's how I phrased it ). If a woman of 39 wants her mom's comfort more than anything else, why on earth wouldn't a baby benefit from that?

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

LOL! This sounds like my second, my daughter. Co-sleeping with her was a nightmare, because she felt obligated to entertain us, no matter how sleepy she was. And she didn't want to nurse to sleep. It just ticked her off. We finally set up the crib. The first night we laid her in it, she kind of glared at us, popped her thumb in her mouth, and rolled over and went to sleep. Kids are funny (and definitely NOT cookie cutter copies of one another!)

FWIW my sister did NOT just want to sleep alone. She wanted our parents out of the way so she could instigate her devious plans. She would unscrew the bars of her crib, get out and walk around the house saying "Quack, Quack"

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by abimommy

FWIW my sister did NOT just want to sleep alone. She wanted our parents out of the way so she could instigate her devious plans. She would unscrew the bars of her crib, get out and walk around the house saying "Quack, Quack"

Sounds like my big brother, actually. Kids are so hilarious. (Note to self: One day, you will laugh about the stuff ds2 is doing today...although it is very hard to imagine.)

[Amys1st]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

And how awesome is that? Babies aren't born able to speak. They can't say "I'm scared" or "I need a cuddle" or "I have a little itch behind my knee" or even just "Mama, I need you!". If an older child came and said that, would you say "Tough crap kid. I have stuff to get done, so deal with it. If you need to make noise, go do it alone in a room so I don't have to hear you. Be sure to shut the door behind you!" ? I don't understand why it would be acceptable to treat a tiny, defenseless infant with any less respect and dignity than one would treat any other human being.

AnnetteMarie Swearrrrreedd....AnnetteMarie sweaaaarrrrredd....


We never I mean never did any sort of CIO. But both girls were as different as the sun and the moon. DD1 (now almost 8) hated co-sleeping. would love to get in our bed at night, nurse and then wanted back in her crib. We would have loved just to keep her be. She has always liked her own space to sleep so she can stretch. She even has a double bed now which she loves.
as a baby, she would nurse herself to sleep and I loved every minute of it! She loved snuggling on DH's bare chest for whatever reason.

OTH, dd2 wanted nothing to do with nursing to sleep after the newborn phase wore off. But she loved the sling, resting on anyone's lap, chest or snuggling. I can remember being at parties for DH's family and someone would always hold her all ages, young and old. But if we tried to rock, sooth etc her to sleep, she would just get more upset. And again as mentioned, one time DH had to put her in the crib as he was trying to sooth her to attend to dd1. He came back 2 minutes later to her making zzzzz's. After that, we would put her in bed or with us awake and she would be out within 2 minutes. She does this to this day 4 years later. Sometimes she likes us to lay with her, but usually she says- Good night, and drifts off.

About a year ago, when dd2 was 3, we were at a park for softball practice for dd1. Another family with 3 plus kids (cannot remember exact number) had a baby in the stroller about 10 mos or so. She saw her mom and cried to get out. The mother literally ignored her. My dd2 got wind of it, and said to the mother- "Are you going to pick your baby up?" the mother ignored dd2 and walked away. dd2 turns to me, "Are you going to pick up the baby???? She is crying Mommy. We cannot let her cry." So she solved it herself. She wrapped herself around the baby and said "I will hug you baby, so you feel better."

I have heard people say the arguements for DH's and I style of parenting. Your children will think the world revolves around them, etc. My kids I think got their fill of getting their needs met and are pretty independent now. My older girl also is nice to everyone, I think because we always responded to her needs as a baby and tot.

[zippy_francis]

Originally Posted by KempsMama

My son sounds very similar. We tried co-sleeping. We tried rocking. We tried all the snuggles in the world. Then one day I needed a break from the screaming, set him in his crib, he never made a PEEP, just went to sleep. From then on he slept in his crib every night by himself, perfectly content. Some babies need their space IMO.

This is one reason I refuse to say I follow any parenting style-because I don't. I follow what my children NEED.

I agree completely. I do what is best for my kids, I am not desperate to label it. I dont care, and I think it is wasted energy to try to conform or label what I do or my 'style', because as we can see there is ALWAYS gray. I guess some people need to shout from the rooftops what kind of parent or parenting style they have, maybe they feel validated more that way. I do what is best and meets the needs of my children and it is no ones business. Nor do I need to condem others of their choices or demand people see my way either. It is truly no ones business...

[Sweetiemommy]

What always bothers me about this (I'm getting off topic) is the whole "AP" club mentality. Like if you are hanging out with other moms who do AP and someone pulls out a pacifier or uses a disposable diaper or let's her child eat an oreo or something, that somehow they are "less" of a parent or "less" AP or maybe (gasp) an outsider! Maybe a tiny bit mainstream!!! Horrors!! I just know way too many people who make it a competition or a requirement for friendship. I think that is sad and isolating. We have no idea what a parent might be experiencing or going through, or heck, what stage she is in the AP process. Can't we all just love each other without judgement? I started out being friends with a group of AP types and they were the most judgemental people I've ever met (and not toward me, I was considered to be one of the "very AP" ones). Now that I'm older and wiser, I have friends who do all sorts of parenting and it doesn't bother me at all. They don't force their methods on me, it doesn't divide us, we focus on what we have in common and that is love and friendship! And guess what, their kids aren't sociopaths, even if they did CIO, carry their babies in bucket seats and feed them cheetos. They are perfectly lovely children, raised by parents who love them. Okay, that's my rant, I'm finished now.
By the way, my definition of CIO is associated with sleep training. Crying it out indicates that they are crying until they "give up."

Originally Posted by ilovemyavery

I agree. CIO is a thought out parenting plan, not what happens when baby is upset that you need to do something for a second. I had to laugh at your story abimommy. I imagine this secret paci whipping out of your pocket, and the hush in the car... We were also paci users to stop the tears in the car, bouncy chair, when-mommy-must-bathe moments.

Quote from Abimommy:
Yeah, one does have to drive.

FWIW when my ds was a newborn I *couldn't* allow him to cry even in the car due to his heart condition. It was very difficult. There I was in the minivan with other staff members on the way up a mountain to Peggy's house and I GAVE MY SON A PACIFIER IN FRONT OF MOTHERING STAFF!! Nothing exploded. Nothing bad happened.

It is ok, we all have to find ways to do things. Our goal is to help people find their way, help people find what works for them.

There are a million variables to the situation, that is what makes it hard to find the line.

[KempsMama]

Originally Posted by Sweetiemommy

What always bothers me about this (I'm getting off topic) is the whole "AP" club mentality. Like if you are hanging out with other moms who do AP and someone pulls out a pacifier or uses a disposable diaper or let's her child eat an oreo or something, that somehow they are "less" of a parent or "less" AP or maybe (gasp) an outsider! Maybe a tiny bit mainstream!!! Horrors!!

I'm the most crunchy person I know, but online I keep my mouth shut about some of our parenting choices-I'm even careful about what pictures I post because I will get jumped on for some of the choices I've made, that I know are best for my son, but because they don't fit with a certain style, I'll get ridiculed.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Sweetiemommy

What always bothers me about this (I'm getting off topic) is the whole "AP" club mentality. Like if you are hanging out with other moms who do AP and someone pulls out a pacifier or uses a disposable diaper or let's her child eat an oreo or something, that somehow they are "less" of a parent or "less" AP or maybe (gasp) an outsider! Maybe a tiny bit mainstream!!! Horrors!! I just know way too many people who make it a competition or a requirement for friendship. I think that is sad and isolating. We have no idea what a parent might be experiencing or going through, or heck, what stage she is in the AP process. Can't we all just love each other without judgement? I started out being friends with a group of AP types and they were the most judgemental people I've ever met (and not toward me, I was considered to be one of the "very AP" ones). Now that I'm older and wiser, I have friends who do all sorts of parenting and it doesn't bother me at all. They don't force their methods on me, it doesn't divide us, we focus on what we have in common and that is love and friendship! And guess what, their kids aren't sociopaths, even if they did CIO, carry their babies in bucket seats and feed them cheetos. They are perfectly lovely children, raised by parents who love them. Okay, that's my rant, I'm finished now.
By the way, my definition of CIO is associated with sleep training. Crying it out indicates that they are crying until they "give up."



Quote from Abimommy:
Yeah, one does have to drive.

FWIW when my ds was a newborn I *couldn't* allow him to cry even in the car due to his heart condition. It was very difficult. There I was in the minivan with other staff members on the way up a mountain to Peggy's house and I GAVE MY SON A PACIFIER IN FRONT OF MOTHERING STAFF!! Nothing exploded. Nothing bad happened.

It is ok, we all have to find ways to do things. Our goal is to help people find their way, help people find what works for them.

There are a million variables to the situation, that is what makes it hard to find the line.

I was joking. No one was judging me, that was my point.

[Storm Bride]

I can never tell if AP mamas are that judgmental or not. I know that I fall far short of my own parenting ideals (mostly AP, but also a lot of NFL stuff). So, when talking to other parents who I know full well don't fall short of those particular ideals, I feel judged...or wary of being judged...or something. It's very uncomfortable, but it has way more to do with me than them.

[lalemma]

I think that secret-paci story is actually kind of apropos: I suspect that it's just much too easy to be judgmental on the internet. You can't see the other person or be reminded that they're a living, feeling person who's doing the best they can, so it's really easy to get all APer than thou and pretend that your parenting hasn't ever taken a few hits from reality.

[Sweetiemommy]

Originally Posted by abimommy

I was joking. No one was judging me, that was my point.

Oh, I got that, sorry, it just reminded me of how some people are "afraid" to do certain things in front of their AP friends. I remember one person coming to my house and seeing a bottle of ALL detergent in my laundry room and saying, "oh, you don't use a natural detergent" in a superior voice. It was weird. And these women were like that about everything. They used to talk about other moms not being "AP enough" and they would seriously withhold friendship. Freaky.

[chipper26]

I think that assuming mainstream moms don't pick their babies up very often is also judgmental. Just b/c they don't babywear or co-sleep doesn't mean they aren't holding their babies or toting them around a good part of the day.

Many babies do spend too much time in containers, and for me, I tried to avoid them as much as possible, but I drove myself a little crazy with guilt if I sat dd in a swing for 20-30 minutes so I could try to get something necessary done (not that she'd sit that long 99% of the time, anyway.)

I know this is a bit off topic, but I do agree that APers can be quite judgmental, and I'll bet the first to admit that I'm one of them.

[lach]

Originally Posted by chipper26

I think that assuming mainstream moms don't pick their babies up very often is also judgmental. Just b/c they don't babywear or co-sleep doesn't mean they aren't holding their babies or toting them around a good part of the day.

Many babies do spend too much time in containers, and for me, I tried to avoid them as much as possible, but I drove myself a little crazy with guilt if I sat dd in a swing for 20-30 minutes so I could try to get something necessary done (not that she'd sit that long 99% of the time, anyway.)

I know this is a bit off topic, but I do agree that APers can be quite judgmental, and I'll bet the first to admit that I'm one of them.

Often when I see "mainstream" used here and on other similarly crunchy sites, the behavior being described sounds like nothing normal or mainstream that I've ever heard of. I know this has a lot to do with geography and age and education, but I consider all of the moms I know to be very mainstream, and they would all be totally shocked at the idea of cereal in the bottle at 3 weeks, "spoiling" a newborn by holding it too much, and so forth. That sort of advice wasn't even common when I was a baby. My mother said it sounds like more the sorts of thing people believed when she was a baby.

I think that just as a lot of "crunchy" moms get unfairly stereotyped by mainstream moms, mainstream sometimes gets a very unfair rap from us more crunchy folks. I don't think that mainstream is any more of an insult than crunchy, and yes I have seen both terms used as such. It's just different ways of looking at the world. And, yes, obviously you wouldn't look at the world that way if you didn't believe it... but I think it's also important to keep some perspective. Plenty of crunchy moms undoubtedly turn out horribly adjusted, neglected in some way or other, parent-hating children, just like plenty of mainstream moms turn out happy, loved, and well attached children.

[MaddieMay]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I'm very hesitant to even mention this, as I've been dogpiled here over it before, but:

Every single thing we tried to soothe/comfort dd1 caused her to be overstimulated. Nursing overstimulated her. Rocking overstimulated her. Singing to her overstimulated her. Touching her overstimulated her. We found, by accident (dh had to deal with something immediately, and I was in the bathroom) that what worked was under 5 minutes of being left alone to wind down and fall asleep. It wasn't an attempt to make her self-soothe. It was a simple fact that she was unable to calm down enough to fall asleep in our presence, until she had completely and utterly worn herself out by crying...usually for hours. IMO, forcing a child to exhaust herself by crying for 3-4 hours, rather than let her have the 3-5 minutes of wind down time that she needed, would have been far worse than putting her through hell, just so I could proudly proclaim that I don't do CIO. It was very, very hard to realize that my strongly held belief that babies shouldn't be left alone to cry was causing my baby tremendous stress...but that's what was happening. DD1 was very...I don't even have the words, but I've never had to deal with another baby like her.

Mods: If my desire to not torment my child is once again going to be perceived as "promoting CIO", please just PM me, and I'll remove the post.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting this. This is my child and unfortunately it took us six months to figure this out, all because I didn't want to be perceived as a parent who does CIO. But now that we've figured it out, DS is a much happier baby. It's all about reading his cries. We know the difference between "I'm trying to get comfortable" and "I need you NOW." So we know when to give him a minute and when to respond right away. I don't consider it CIO, I consider it responding appropriately to my child's needs.