MFE meeting am I going overboard?

[aslyn]

Hey Mammas!

Ok so my DD is 9, she was homeschooled until this yr when my ds started K and I quickly realized he was more advanced then she is, We started using a virtual charter and they tested her academics at a K level. We ended making a cross country move from CA back to OH because my dh got laid off and we couldn't afford to live in CA. So we stayed with friends until we got a place of our own and put the kids in the local public schools, When I enrolled her we did a "meeting" with the special ed director, and district psychologist. They decided the virtual charter was not enough exposure to education to qualify for an MFE so they put her on a Tier 3 intervention plan which gave her a tutor 3x a week in a pull out program..Now we have moved into our own place, and it is a different district, so I took her in friday to get a tour of the new school, fill out paperwork and meet the teacher..well the principal pulled me into her office and told me that her progress with the tutor was not enough and she will not be able to keep up with the work in the school, she had me sign a paper to have her start the process for an MFE and scheduled a meeting for the 3rd with herself, the school counselor, teachers (both special ed and the general ed teacher she was assigned) while we wait for the MFE results she will participating in the tutoring program like at the old school..OK now that you have a book for a background! Since this is the 2nd time I have done this "meeting" I don't want to be snowballed,(the old school said that just because I said she has problems doesnt mean she does, since I dont have a degree in education grrr) so I am writing down things i have observed both at home with her, ie her personality traits, social skills and what i observed at the old school while i was there and what she told me when she came home As well as her retention skills etc..so my question is Am I just going overboard with all the extra info for the meeting? I don't want to bombard them with my observations but since I spend more time with her than anyone I think my opinions should be taken into account in dealing with her. Also are there any questions I should be asking?

Thanks!

[Aridel]

I would bring the info - you can always type up a parent concerns letter so they can have it later to look at as well as talking about it. I would also include info on what type of homeschooling you did and how she responded, like if she seemed to benefit from multi-sensory instruction, or short period of work interspersed with gross motor activities, etc. It sounds like this school is more on top of things than the old one, with the request for the assessment and an acknowledgment that she will likely need specialized services to meet her needs. FWIW third grade can be a tough time for a lot of kids, and if any SN are going to show up, they will around then since demands are ramping up and kids who are struggling really start to show it. You are doing the right thing by keeping track of what she struggles with and getting her help.

[aslyn]

UPDATE-Long Vent (kinda)

Thank You for the kind words!

We got a call from the teacher yesterday, after only 3 days of being in the school they are highly concerned, The teacher who worked with special ed students for 12 yrs said she is not functioning on a social, emotional or psychological level of a 9 yr old. I was honestly impressed, someone finaly realized this without me saying HEY PAY ATTENTION PLEASE!

Apparantly DD had walked out of the school on her own and went wandering around the parking lot. It was just about time to leave, and they were at their lockers getting coats and such when she disappeared. The teacher said that she only took her eyes off her for about 10 seconds, went looking for her where another parent found DD and brought her back in to the teacher, when she was asked why she had done that she had no answer except that the busses were out there. Her teacher tried explaining that it was not acceptable or safe but she did not understand that. We tried explaining the same thing after we were informed and all she said was that she was afraid she had missed the bus. Now the teacher has her buddied up at all times, but honestly it's frightning that she did that. She could have gotten lost or kidnapped or hit by a car..She hasnt wandered off since she was about 3 when she found her way to the bubbles at a street fair where my sil had taken her.

So in light of all of this, the teacher had requested I go ahead and email all the team at the meeting with our concerns and what we are observing around here. Typing it up I felt like it was a ragfest on my kid..BUT I do know that she needs help and her teacher mentioned that her gut instinct and experience is telling her that DD will be put in special ed classes and that there is a LOT more going on then a simple academic delay as the previous school was saying.

Anhwho thanx for reading!

[Aridel]

What a scary situation! It is terrible to have to outline and identify everything that worries you about your kids. It helps me if I write out concerns, but also include things that I like, or real strengths that my dd has. Write about what she loves to do, and what you love to do with her. There is no way to make this not hurt, but there are ways to try and make sure your dd is treated as the amazing individual she is, and to help you with this process.

She is the same child she was before, but now someone is taking you seriously. A well-designed intervention plan can make all the difference with a child, and you guys are on your way to that now!

[aslyn]

The Eccentricities

Thank you

This has all been very hard to swallow, I think we were looking at things from a pair of rose colored glasses and just felt that is her personality so we just need to deal with it.

Here are all the things I brought up in the email that we are concerned about. I am hoping some of you mamma's out there can give me some insight into my little princess or some ideas on what could possibly be going on with her, and some ideas on how to keep my sanity while we go through this!

~In educational settings while we home-schooled she would seem to grasp a concept, we would move on to something else and she would "forget" what we had just worked on. For instance we spent months on the "at" words and the week we decided to go on to the "ug" words she would be completely lost as to how to put the letter sounds together to make a word and forget the "at" words we had just worked on.

~She still cannot tell time or count money, no matter how many different ways we have tried to break it down for her she does not understand. Even when reading a digital clock on the cable box.

~K quite frequently refers to herself in the 3rd person. IE "K wants some juice" We managed to resolve this issue quite a bit over the summer but she does revert back saying "me want juice" or "k wants juice" from time to time. When she does this we say "I want some juice, not K wants juice"

~She interrupts when others are speaking, If she is asked to wait a second she will get louder and louder until she is acknowledged. Sometimes she will get right into a persons face and yell loudly to get their attention. We have tried to curve this behavior by saying "this is my personal space K please respect it"

~She repeats the same topics over and over again. For example if she is told we are going to the market on Saturday, She will repeatedly ask "we are going to the market Saturday right?" "which day is Saturday" "what time on Saturday" and will tell EVERYONE she talks to she is going to the market Saturday

~routines are extremely important to K. She is flexible about most major things. Like moving, or having a new baby (I am 6 months pregant and she is excited about it). She is not resistant to those types of changes. However small things would never matter to most people are really upsetting to her if changed. For instance, she has to use the same cup and plate everyday for every meal, sit in the same seat at the dinner table, She will only eat specific things for weeks at a time until she does decides she wants something different to eat then she will not touch the original thing for months. For example she went through a toast phase, where she had to have toast at every meal. Now she rarely eats toast, or anything with butter on it. If there are any changes to these routines, she will refuse to eat and have an emotional meltdown over it.

~K has a very hard time making friends. Which in itself is very distressing to her. She has no idea why other kids do not want to play with her or why they laugh at her. She blurts out off topic remarks, and cannot follow a typical conversation. Girls her age just think she is weird, and either avoid her completely or tease her.

~In dealing with her cousins, she is unable to process that they are in fact being mean to her. She will do everything it takes to hang out with them and make them her "best friends". Adults that are not nice to her she will say are "mean" and "rude" and she doesn't like them. But in the situation of another kid, she does not realize that not everyone wants to be her friend no matter how hard she tries.

~She is extremely sensitive, and does not always grasp that the "joke" whatever it may be is not directed it her. She will cry for hours if her feelings are hurt.

~When she gets excited about something, or around other kids in a "play" setting She will get very loud and jump around flapping her arms and hands.

~She always walks on her toes when she is barefoot. If she has shoes on, she tends to drag her feet.

~She is very clingy and will attach herself to anyone she feels a connection to. She loves to be held and hugged and her hair pet. She insists on sitting on every ones lap, forcibly. She will move a persons crossed leg to sit on their lap and gets mad and takes it as an insult if they say no. We have really tried to get her to stop doing this, as she is now much older than a toddler and of course much heavier!

~She gets along better with preschool age children then with her own age group, She watches preschool shows such as Barney or Sesame Street instead of the mainstream "pre-teen" music and media the 9-12 age group is into.

~She cannot Brush or wash her hair, or dress herself without help. She also cannot tie shoes

~She will not give up if we tell her no to something. She will come back and try again over and over again. IE if we have company over and tell her no, you cannot sit on grandma's lap please go find another place to sit, she will get upset walk away and then come right back and try to sit on the persons lap. She doesn't seem to get it.


So those are some of our concerns. We really feel that things are way beyond an academic delay but are at a loss on what could possibly going on. I suspect she is on the autism spectrum with some sensory issues but my DH does not believe she can possibly any form of autistic since she is so loving. Any ideas?

[Linda on the move]

your DD needs a complete evaluation. I think that your list is great and will help get things started on the school front.

If you have insurance, I would also make an appointment and give your doctor the same list. I would pursue private as a well as a school evaluation if it were me.

My DD is on the autism specturm and is very loving. These things are complex, which is why she needs to spend lots of time with a specialist.

Getting a diagnosis is a time consuming process. There really aren't that many people who have the expertise to do them and there are waiting list (often 6 months long) to get a child in. Once a child is in a tested, they may be referred for more test. It's a process.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through.

[Aridel]

I agree that it's sounding like an outside eval is a good thing to look into. Your list is great, and it doesn't sound like you are being critical of her at all, just that you have a very good sense of what she can do and where she is really struggling right now. There are some red flags for autism spectrum in what you wrote, but kids can also exhibit some of those behaviors for other reasons. Detailed evals will help figure out what is going on and what to do next.

Things get better when you have a diagnosis, and services in place, this is the hardest part.

[aslyn]

Again thank you! I think my DD is quite awesome, and I love her for who she is..she only drives us nuts with the non stop same topic over and over again today was a snow day, and I can't tell you how many times I heard "I go back to school Monday right" or "Do i go back to school monday" or "how many days til I go back to school" she loves school I'll give her that! When I was 9 snow days rocked LOL

At the moment we are waiting on a decision for healthy family/healthy start program, so no insurance to go "private" until then.

[khaoskat]

Ok, I am going to put a few things in to CYA, if you have not already done them.

1) If you have not already done so, put your request for an MFE/IEP/504 plan meeting in. This is a procedural safe guard. If the request is not in writing, then they you have no recourse against them if they do not do it.

If you want, I believe I have a sample letter that covers everything I can PM you with.

If you did this at the old school, and they refused to do the MFE, you can file a complaint with the Ohio Department of Education. Once the written request is received by the school, THEY MUST do one, and cannot legally get away without completing the assessment. If this has happened, then you can get the school district into serious trouble. Furthermore, they should have seen what was going on themselves, so you may have recourse against them on that.

2) Contact a pediatrician or family physician, and ask for formal assessments of your child. You may have to contact a psychologist to get IQ testing, and other assessments done. I know there are several diagnostic tests they run on children who have educational delays to see if they are mentally slow other than just IQ testing.

3) As hard as this is to believe. You need to make sure that if your child ever gets into trouble, as in criminal trouble, that you make everyone aware that there might be competency issues. This, as an attorney, is one things I am finding horrible and deplorable about our system right now. A lot of the Court appointed attorneys for kids, are just running them through the system and pleading them to charges. There are some out there who will realize there is a possible issue, but you need to advocate for it and your child on these matters.

[aslyn]

khaoskat thank you! You have given me a lot to think about. We did not request in writing for an MFE at the old school, but when we did the "tour" of the new school the principal had me do it because she was concerned about K's progress on the intervention plan the old school made up, so that was in place before she even started there. I am also confused as to why the old school never saw the other things that after only 3 days in school are clearly evident to the new school while she was there, as parents we honestly just passed things off as her personality and things became so normal for us we didn't think of it any differently then we do with our sons. TBH I think that the teachers and staff at the old school have to spend so much time dealing with the "wild" kids in their classrooms they didn't spend much time with my kids while they were there. Both of my kids said that the kids were all bad in their classes and their teachers spent most of the day yelling and being mad the kids in the class. I don't knock the teachers though, really I have a great deal of respect for them. They go to work day in and day out and deal with 20+ screaming kids all day. 1 kid even stole the teachers cell phone. Kids like mine probably do fall through the cracks because they aren't really "problem" children IE they aren't yelling or running around the classroom. In fact my DS' teacher said he's one of the nicest boys shes ever had.

It also saddens me that our legal system fails these kids. I hope that is something we never have to deal with, but I do know of other kids who really got sh*t on by the system because they had emotional/mental issues and nobody noticed until it was to late.

[khaoskat]

I have a somewhat low opinion of school districts and their handling in general of special needs children. I believe most of them are not looking out for your child, because as you have said, they have too much on their plate. There is a huge lack of funding for school right now. I think classroom sizes are too large. There are too many kids to teacher ratio in most classrooms. As such, to preserve what little money they have, schools do the least that they can get away with.

For instance, why give the children in the school district one on one speech therapy services, when you can do it in a group setting (ie 4 or 5 kids at a time). You have gone from needing 2 1/2 hours per week to just needing 30 minutes per week.

Read through the post by 2boyzmom (I believe I got that right) about what she is going through right now with her Son's school, and they are one of the better school districts in our area. There is a program in another neighboring district that would be a very good fit for her child, better than anything that they could offer. They are refusing to send the child to it, and will hire a ASL educational intepreter instead - leaving the child no ability to communicate with anyone unless that person is there. It probably comes down to a money issue.

[aslyn]

UPDATE-Meeting

So we had the meeting this morning, It went better than the last one did! They are evaluating her for IQ level, an academic assesment, speech and language social/emotional status, and adaptive behavior. They are suspecting a "cognitive disability" and or a specified learning disability. We reconvene on April 21st to discuss results, and they will have a rough draft of an IEP for dh and I to look over and sign off on (or not), they are quite certain that she will qualify for special needs and since its so late in the year they want to be on top of things. I have requested to be notified every step of the way of every dx they are throwing on her as the results come in so we know what we are dealing with BEFORE the next meeting and can make sure to get stuff in we feel needs to be addressed and be well informed about whatever the dx is, although I am not sure how common it is for them to let the parents know before the meetings (or required or not?)

Thank you all so much for your input and support it is GREATLY appreciated!

[Aridel]

Originally Posted by aslyn

So we had the meeting this morning, It went better than the last one did! They are evaluating her for IQ level, an academic assesment, speech and language social/emotional status, and adaptive behavior. They are suspecting a "cognitive disability" and or a specified learning disability. We reconvene on April 21st to discuss results, and they will have a rough draft of an IEP for dh and I to look over and sign off on (or not), they are quite certain that she will qualify for special needs and since its so late in the year they want to be on top of things. I have requested to be notified every step of the way of every dx they are throwing on her as the results come in so we know what we are dealing with BEFORE the next meeting and can make sure to get stuff in we feel needs to be addressed and be well informed about whatever the dx is, although I am not sure how common it is for them to let the parents know before the meetings (or required or not?)

Thank you all so much for your input and support it is GREATLY appreciated!

You have the right to request the evaluation reports in writing prior to the meeting, so you can have a chance to read through them and bring any questions with you. Schools tend to avoid giving a diagnosis, so I would be prepared for that. They do give you scores, and describe how your child is doing, but often they don't give a diagnostic label until an outside doctor has committed to one in a written report. I would get those reports early, and plan to bring someone with you to the next meeting. Even if you are expecting it, it's very emotional and can be extremely tough to hear how your child is doing and where they are struggling. Having another person there can help since they can be emotional support for you and also ask questions and help keep on top of things with the school staff.

Do not sign the IEP at the meeting. Really, don't! It could be the most perfect IEP ever, and I would still tell you not to do it. Read it, bring up any concerns and h ave them send a final copy (not a draft) home that day or after they make any changes. You need a chance to process what is said at the meeting, what you think she needs, and what they are offering. If you want, you can feel free to type up and post any questions or goals they write etc. here, or have a friend or family member read through the whole thing with you. You can always request another meeting, but this is the time to question and read and take your time. I'm not trying to sound down on the school; it certainly sounds like they are head and shoulders above the prior school! But be cautious.

It's good that the process is moving along. It's great to hear that your son's teacher appreciates him! How are you settling in after your recent moves? Make sure to take care of yourself too, it's so easy to get caught up with the kids, especially with a kiddo with sn, and forget to take a break and find something to do for yourself.

[aslyn]

Aridel, thank you! I will most certainly make sure to bring it home before signing off on it, I think DH needs to read it and respond as well before we commit to anything. I will also request the reports as early as possible, I really do not like being caught off guard,I would rather know what I was dealing with before-hand so I can process the info and get as much info as possible.

AND we are all settling in after the move nicely. DH has been taking care of all the big stuff around here (unpacking, major cleanings etc) so that I can focus on DD and staying healthy being pregnant. I've been trying to walk everyday to keep my mind/body/spirit in balance but since it still looks like the Artic outside I've settled for brief walks to the store and wandering around for an hour to keep my peace of mind thanks for asking