Won't clean; won't help; won't work -- help!

[morgainesmama]

This is a bit longer than I'd intended to post, but I'm flat out of ideas.

My youngest is about to turn 6. I also have a 10 and almost-8.

At his dad's house, a baby was born before his second birthday, just after his third, and just before his fifth. I don't know if this is relevant.

I am struggling with reconciling an AP parenting style with a boy who does. not. want. to. work. His older brother (almost 8) is always angry with him, because when I set them to clean their room, LO will not help. It is a struggle to get him to even put his clothes away.

Today, we cleaned up the yard. Everyone worked hard for 2 hours except youngest DS. I started pulling privileges (screen time and dessert) partway through because the older two were so angry that he wasn't helping.

He has come to me crying when it is time to practice reading (homeschooled in joint custody -- which in our situation means unschooling is impossible) saying "I just wish I could be 4 again so I don't have to learn anything."

What it really seems to me is that he wishes he was 3/4, the age of less responsibility, less anything, and we've struggled over the last 2 years to find a way to work together. He's a joyful, funny, laughing boy, not moody or melancholy generally, just won't do anything when asked (or when not asked).

I've tried various parenting maneuvers, including basic behavior management (rewards and punishments) and lots of other stuff. Charting, etc.

I finally reached the end of my rope today and have him copying the sentences, "I am big. I can help."

Suggestions? He has been raised (at my house) in an AP style; we spend at least a half hour cuddling each day he's home; he gets plenty of love and mama time here. He's at Dad's 2-3 nights a week and I understand things to be much different there -- adults are sort of around but active parenting is not something that happens; big kids are in charge of the smaller (9 in all) and discipline/boundaries from adults are nonexistant. Bullying is tolerated and even encouraged among siblings; my older son is the oldest boy there and is increasingly angry at being the one in charge of all cleaning and chores there, and it's spilling over at home. Communication in that direction is impossible, but I mention it because it may be relevant.

Help ... suggestions ... I may have tried it before, but I may not have. I hate that so many of our task-related interactions end in tears or arguing these days, and I don't like the anger that's building in my older son (middle child).

Thanks .....

[annethcz]

What I find works is that my kids need to do their jobs/chore before they are allowed to do anything else.

When we homeschooled, the work for the day needed to be finished before lunch. We didn't eat until the (obviously age- and ability- appropriate) activity was completed.

If kids want to watch TV or play video games, they need to do their jobs.

I understand the frustration with asking your children to all help, and only having some of them help. That happens at my house as well. If at all possible, I try to break the jobs into chunks and assign each chunk to different child. So in the case of cleaning a shared room, I might ask one child to clean up the legos and another child to clean up the action figures- both would be responsible for their own clothing and making their own beds.

[morgainesmama]

Originally Posted by annethcz

If at all possible, I try to break the jobs into chunks and assign each chunk to different child. So in the case of cleaning a shared room, I might ask one child to clean up the legos and another child to clean up the action figures- both would be responsible for their own clothing and making their own beds.

Currently, this is more or less what we're doing. Which means that if LO is assigned, for instance, legos, the legos stay on the floor, while he sits sort of peacefully and absentmindedly not tidying at all. And no limit, no consequence, no next activity, seems to coax him to anything but, eventually, tears (as in, after 3 hours of sitting peacefully it becomes bedtime, then he cries because it is bedtime, though he's been reminded at each half hour, for example, or because he is missing the family movie, but will cry and be sad rather than complete the task to watch the movie).

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by morgainesmama

Currently, this is more or less what we're doing. Which means that if LO is assigned, for instance, legos, the legos stay on the floor, while he sits sort of peacefully and absentmindedly not tidying at all. And no limit, no consequence, no next activity, seems to coax him to anything but, eventually, tears (as in, after 3 hours of sitting peacefully it becomes bedtime, then he cries because it is bedtime, though he's been reminded at each half hour, for example, or because he is missing the family movie, but will cry and be sad rather than complete the task to watch the movie).

What do you do when he cries? Do you comfort him then have him return to the task or do you stop having him do the task? It may be that he has found that tears work to get him out of having to complete a task, my dd has found that this works when I am stressed out and don't want to argue. When I comfort her, but don't take away the task I am requiring her to do she gets the point very quickly. I use a lot of when/then statements and we don't move on to the then until the when is done. For her that works. If he is getting something out of sitting, crying, and waiting until bedtime without completing the task then I think you need to stop letting him get whatever that is. I also think you should give only one reminder and let him decide. If he asks then remind him that he needs to finish his work and then turn back to doing something else and don't engage in argument, nagging, or conversation.

[AAK]

I really don't know what to tell you. Everytime I think of an idea, I realize that you have it down already. So, here is the only thing I can think of--but it may be a bit extreme. You don't mention if the 10 yr old is a boy or girl. So, if possible could the 8 yr old share rooms with the 10 yr old instead? If so, you could let the 6 yr old have "control" of HIS room as long as he helps with the other tasks. So, his room may look like a garbage site without penalty as long as he clears the table or puts the yard toys away or something. Make a list of "his" chores that would be consistantly required to have control over his room. Also, make sure there is a no food policy for the bedroom as you don't want something to start growing in there. Additionally, though, you will not help him find something in his room whether it is underwear or a favorite toy. If he has trouble finding, he can start cleaning.

I suggest it only if you can get the 8 yr old with the 10 yr old because it wouldn't be fair to the 8 yr old to live in a dump if he is willing to assist in the cleaning.

Another idea (and I am getting close to implementing it with my oldest) is to seriously limit what he has. I told my dd that she may just end up with a homeschool uniform if she can't put her clothes away! I did get serious about it though and let her know that she would end up with x number of shirts and y number of pants if she couldn't get the job done. I am tired of doing laundry to see it all on the floor or just shoved into the drawers. When I told her that, I was in the process of removing several articles of clothing from her closets. I left most, but that was the end of the game for me. So far, it has worked. So, if he has a problem with toys, let him keep 3. Put the rest in storage for a while until he proves that he can take care of them. Then, he can get 1 more, wait awhile and get another.

Good luck, lots of hugs.

Amy

[velochic]

I agree with Ann.

Also, I think that at the age of 6, the tears and crying *are* being used for manipulation. He may be truly sad to have more responsibilities, but if you can show him that more responsibility comes with more privileges, perhaps he will see the positive side of getting things done.

Perhaps you can stress, "I trust you to do this for me, and by doing it, you are helping everyone in the house. By being able to do this, I know you are big enough to be able to do 'X' now, on your own." "X" being something he's wanted to do independently. I don't know what that would be for you. Not a "reward" but an expansion of trust and responsibility.

In our case, it was letting dd cook from a recipe on her own with minimal help from me. She'd been wanting to cook a meal herself for a while and I told her that when I see her being responsible with her chores, I will know that she is attentive enough in the kitchen to do it on her own. (She's 8, though.)

Best of luck! It must very difficult to not have continuity between the two households... and confusing for your kids, too.

[sparkygirl74]

Originally Posted by AAK

Another idea (and I am getting close to implementing it with my oldest) is to seriously limit what he has. I told my dd that she may just end up with a homeschool uniform if she can't put her clothes away! I did get serious about it though and let her know that she would end up with x number of shirts and y number of pants if she couldn't get the job done. I am tired of doing laundry to see it all on the floor or just shoved into the drawers. When I told her that, I was in the process of removing several articles of clothing from her closets. I left most, but that was the end of the game for me. So far, it has worked. So, if he has a problem with toys, let him keep 3. Put the rest in storage for a while until he proves that he can take care of them. Then, he can get 1 more, wait awhile and get another.

Good luck, lots of hugs.

Amy

We have done this with our five year old. If she refuses to put her books on the shelf or put away all of the puzzle peices, her clothes, etc. we say "If you can't take care of your stuff you must have to much" and we will take it and put it away in the basement. I know there are some people who might think this is harsh, but it isn't like we burn it or anything and if she does a good job of helping she can earn it back if she really wants it. There have been tears sometimes, but other times it has almost been met with a sense of relief. I think that these kids can become overwhelmed with all of the toys that have a million prices. A lot of times after awhile of it being out of site she will mention that we should "sell" it and we will donate it.
BTW, kudos on the homeschooling with shared custody! There aren't a lot of families that would even try!

[morgainesmama]

Thanks for the replies. Changing the room sharing isn't really an option bc 10yo is opposite sex and as messy as my littlest. 8yo ds likes order in his life. However, we do have what I have called the "common area" in a space beside their bedroom, large enough for a bed and a bureau. I think that perhaps moving LO to this area without toys in his room might be a good next step.

Crying has never removed a task for him. He seems genuinely sad, even heartbroken some days, about growing up. And while I'm sorry he's sad, uh, well, too bad, tbh. But he really does weep and seems to believe that "But I just hate cleaning so much!" is a great reason to never do it.

This is where our breaking point came (for me) to analyze it, which I've been trying unsuccessfully to do for years now. The other day, he said to me after he'd finally tearfully completed a task, "Sometimes when I have to do something I hate I just feel like I wish I was dead." He said it matter-of-factly, not as though he was trying to get my attention (though of course it did).

I believe the kids feel a lot of loss of control over their lives. LO in particular often would rather stay home than go to dad's, but the custody schedule is pretty non-negotiable in that way. Their dad and stepmom are not only *not* ap but anti-ap in many ways, anti-homeschooling, anti-everything-I-stand for, and make that known to the kids. I'm sure there are things here the kids have trouble with, too, but over there, the lack of supervision and adult interaction is a huge problem from the kids' perspectives.

BUT this is their life, and for littlest one, who had just had his first birthday when I asked xh to move out, really the only life he's known. I've made some changes this past week -- a printed chore chart, switching video games/screen time to things that require earning by chores, and then the sentences last night I had him write.

I started the day by going over with him (before we got out of bed) my expectations that we'd have a good day, and he'll be helpful and responsible so we can have fun at swim this afternoon, and he actually got his clothes ready for a shower in under 10 minutes, which is an improvement.

[bnhmama]

I'm sorry, Mama. I wish I had a better solution for how to deal with his emotions. I have been talking to my 7 year old a lot lately about how we can't just do/not do something based on our feelings. That sometimes there are responsibilities and that if we work together, instead of letting it pile up, it makes life easier.

I would have to agree with those who said LESS stuff. My son could never, ever, ever keep his room clean. Heck, I can't keep MY room clean, unless the stuff is very limited and organized. He and I both have issues looking at stuff and processing a plan for action. Which means stuff piles up and often goes undone. Finally, we got fed up and have been getting rid of stuff left and right. This was very difficult for my son. We had to go through every. single. toy. in order to get rid of things. Now EVERYTHING in his room has it's own box/shelf. (Ex. Legos, "guys", cars, farm set, etc) I'd say about 75% of his toys (In their own totes) are stored in his closet. He has to ask permission to get one out and he's not allowed to get anything else out of the closet until the other thing is put away. Ever since we implemented this system, he's kept his room clean! It's sooooo much easier for him.

For us, having a system is crucial. Maybe that could help your son?