Traveling Question, do I let DS go

[kittygrrl523]

My ex and I have no formal custody agreement. We are both on the birth cert. We were never married. My son mostly lives with me. When the ex is in town DS spends part of the week with him. The ex is now married.

The ex has been out of town for nearly all of the last two months. He now wants to take DS on a trip with him. He hasn't told me the concrete days yet. He also insists that if he can't get DS on his own flight (which will be booked by his employer) then his wife can just accompany DS on the plane since she's also going on the trip.

Does anyone know if I'm legally obligated to allow my DS to travel with his father's wife. I don't feel comfortable with it...but at the same time I'm afraid my ex's reaction to me refusing. I'm sure he'll say I'm just doing it to be a pain, but actually I'm not...I barely know his wife and I just don't want my kid alone on a plane with her.

Any advice would be great. Maybe I need to talk to a lawyer....

[La Sombra]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl523

My ex and I have no formal custody agreement. We are both on the birth cert. We were never married. My son mostly lives with me. When the ex is in town DS spends part of the week with him. The ex is now married.

The ex has been out of town for nearly all of the last two months. He now wants to take DS on a trip with him. He hasn't told me the concrete days yet. He also insists that if he can't get DS on his own flight (which will be booked by his employer) then his wife can just accompany DS on the plane since she's also going on the trip.

Does anyone know if I'm legally obligated to allow my DS to travel with his father's wife. I don't feel comfortable with it...but at the same time I'm afraid my ex's reaction to me refusing. I'm sure he'll say I'm just doing it to be a pain, but actually I'm not...I barely know his wife and I just don't want my kid alone on a plane with her.

Any advice would be great. Maybe I need to talk to a lawyer....

Sorry, no legal advice here (although I strongly suspect you are under NO legal obligation to grant permission to DS's father to take him on this trip) but I would say that I totally understand your hesitation!!! I think you are right to feel what you feel and don't doubt that those feelings come from a place of having your son's best interests at heart. I had to make a similar decision recently (although with different implications) and I know that my STBX thought that I refused to let DD travel with him out of spite but it simply wasn't true: I was genuinely concerned for her. You have to go with your gut and not worry about how it might be taken by your ex.

But then you also might want to open up a dialogue about this issue and begin establishing some parameters for what you are comfortable with and what you think is appropriate--even doing this legally, with a formal, legally-binding custody agreement. I suggest you start by thinking about what you are comfortable with. If there's something that you are not comfortable with (as in this situation), is there something you could do to be more comfortable? For instance, suggest that DS gets to know the new wife better and under less intense circumstances before any major travel takes place? That might be a good place to start.

I wish you good luck--all this stuff is so so hard, isn't it?

PS-I'm in Michigan, too!

[kittygrrl523]

Thanks La Sombra,

Yes, all this is so hard.

The thing is DS really does know his stepmother pretty well. It's me that doesn't know her...and what I do know of her makes me . She is rude to me and even DS's preschool teacher (who met her at a conference) commented to me that she has no parenting skills and needs help. DS loves her and thinks of her as a friend.

During the trip the ex would be working at night and some days, so his wife would be watching DS. I am ok with that...it's specifically the idea of her traveling alone with my child that makes me uncomfortable...especially since she is from Canada and I don't even know if she's a legal citizen here.

I know you're right that I just need to go with my gut but it's so hard to know what's the right thing to do...I even thought of telling the ex that if he pays for it I'd fly there and back with DS but I doubt he'd go for that anyways. Part of me thinks that if he's serious about being in DS's life he needs to do it here, so DS can be at home!!!!!

AHHHHHH....

[new2this]

General rule of thumb yeah go with your gut. But ask yourself what the real hang up is. And try to decide from there. From what you wrote your son knows her and enjoys being around her. Its you that doens't know her. Can you maybe meet her and get to know her before the trip? If that is not possible can you call and talk to her. Yeah she probably is going to be rude to you as you have a child with her husband. Some woman are weird like that.

However not sure what her being a legal citizen has to do with anything?
Also I think its great he wants to be in the child's life even if he isn't close by.

I think since you have an issue maybe it would be smart to set up some form of legal visitation adn custody type agreements.

[kittygrrl523]

I guess my big fear is that she would kidnap DS...and her not being a citizen might make that easier...but maybe that's dumb...i have a tendency toward worrying (and i watch too much tv)

But i guess i just think if she did anything then i would blame myself for not having taken a stand!!!

this is so hard!!!!

[new2this]

aah ok that makes sense. However I think even to cross Canada boarder even with one parent there needs to be signed paper stating both parents are in agreement.

Now has she ever shown or yoru dc's dad shown any type of signs of possible kidnapping even making passive statements?

I know things aren't always given signs, but I would hate for your DS to miss out on a trip with his dad due to a fear that is just that a fear. KWIM?


Hang in there talk to your DS dad and set up some ground rules ect. and go from there.

[kittygrrl523]

thanks new2this.

she hasn't given me any indications...i think maybe i watch too much Law & Order...and also I just love my DS so much and still worry!!!!!!!

you're right about crossing the border though...

i'm struggling right now to separate my own likes/dislikes from what's best for DS...in thinking about it I realize that I do really really WANT DS to have this trip...even if it does mean missing a day of school...it's just the traveling...i don't know my ex's wife well at all, don't know how she'd respond to a medical emergency, etc...and she has made it clear that she doesn't like me or want to get to know me...


ahhhhhhh

[Goodmom2008]

Before I would allow any travel, I would get a formal custody agreement signed off on by a judge. In this agreement, you can ask for concrete times and places where the travel will be done. And ask that proof of a non-refundable return ticket in your son's name having been purchased.

You aren't going to get far with wanting to prevent the stepmom from being the one who is traveling with your son.

[violet_]

With no custody agreement, you're not required to send him, and he's not required to return him. So, if you trust each other then don't worry about it, but if you don't then get an agreement in writing to protect everyone. Also, if you do get an agreement, no judge will restrict access to the stepmom unless she does something hideous. Same as for you or the child's father.

Now, the trip. I didn't hear anything in what you said that sounded like a reasoned argument to keep your child home. You want him to see his dad, so he will also see his stepmom. Flying with Dad versus Stepmom shouldn't affect anything.

I apologize if this sounds too harsh, but it sounds to me like you're trying to control your ex's parenting time, and there's more than a trace of jealousy coming through. I mean, he has a right to socialize (or marry) people you don't know, right? So if your DS spends time with him, then he will meet his dad's friends and wife, yes?

I'm not sure where the kidnapping worry comes from, either. And to steal your kid and flee to Canada, she'd need to leave her husband, right? This just doesn't sound plausible at all. Unless you think the dad wants to kidnap, but you don't seem to think that's very likely, or you wouldn't be considering any of this.

I think you should let him go on the trip, and give him permission to enjoy his other family as much as he enjoys yours.

[RollerCoasterMama]

How old is your DS? 3 and under, I'd think about it but probably still ok it. 4+, in my mind, it's a done deal.

My gut says that you probably are going to have to trust the step-mom on this. It's only for a few hours really. She's likely been alone with him that long before if they've been married for long. You said you're ok with everything but the travel time. Specifically citing kidnapping (which isn't very realistic unless there's more back-story to this---the border is strict about kids) and medical emergencies during travel time. In terms of medical emergencies, the airline staff will have basic training on what to do, so you should be safe. If he's got specific medical or nutritional issues, send along very clear instructions.

You can probably see where I'm leaning.
You said you want him to have the trip. He loves step-mom and knows her well. You don't have concerns about step-mom caring for DS once the plane has landed.

This sounds like a great opportunity to see his dad after he's been out of town for a while.

[Seie]

How old is your DS ?

Other things that would matter to me is - how long have you been apart and how is the cooperation about DS usually? Do you have many conflicts or do you generally agree on issues about him? And especially - does your ex usually keep the appointments you make with him?

Assuming DS's dad is a perfectly good dad and you are not worried about him not keeping the appointments/agreements you have with him, then I actually think that while he is with his dad, then dad is responsible for making a parental decision such as allowing DS to travel on the plane with this lady. Unless ofcourse you have a specific reason to worry about your ex's ability to properly take care of DS while he is with him, but it doesnt sound like it from what you wrote.

Just my thoughts..

[MissLotus]

I think it's good to have things in writing before any out-of-country travel is done. Very important to have custody established! Also, doesn't your child need a passport to do this? And to get a passport, both parents need to sign the papers.

I wouldn't be at all thrilled to have someone I don't know watching my child, either - but that would go for all of the time, not just during travel. You say you're okay with her watching him otherwise... and medical emergencies, etc, could happen at any time, not just traveling. Is the trip really long - will your child be away from you for more than the usual amount of time? That would be the part that would concern me.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by MissLotus

I think it's good to have things in writing before any out-of-country travel is done. Very important to have custody established! Also, doesn't your child need a passport to do this? And to get a passport, both parents need to sign the papers.

I wouldn't be at all thrilled to have someone I don't know watching my child, either - but that would go for all of the time, not just during travel. You say you're okay with her watching him otherwise... and medical emergencies, etc, could happen at any time, not just traveling. Is the trip really long - will your child be away from you for more than the usual amount of time? That would be the part that would concern me.

I don't think OP said it was out of country. If she did, I'd rethink.

Also, OP, from your first post, it looks like your ex is going to try and have your DS fly with him on the same flight. Hopefully, after all of your worrying, it will turn out he's able to fly with his dad. Do you have any issues of him flying with his dad alone?

[meemee]

oh man i dont have time to search for it. but there is a document online that you always sign when one parent leaves the country with the child. custody or not custody.

hmmm do you think stepmama will kidnap your child? in my books that would be a 'good' thing, because i assume she cares for him so much that she doesnt want to let him go.

are you sure she would even want to do that?

the gut thing is hard because sometimes the true gut feeling runs away at the sight of fear and you are left with this fear which has no logic (i know believe me i have been there). so yeah i am guessing Law and Order.

plus you say they have a good relationship. son enjoys her. there is something definitely to be said about your son 'trusting' his feelings for her.

you know something - i know if i was thrown into parenting without having a child of my own - oh boy i would suck. it would take me lots of time to figure it out. i am not an intuitive parent as some are. its so different. so explore and see if she is indeed improving. or are your own prejudices coming thru. are you being too critical. ex's gf is not the parent i would like her to be - but i can see she deeply cares for dd and dd cares for her too. which is beautiful.

the only thing i can think of that can go bad is if your child runs off and gets lost at the airport. if he is the running kind.

there is so much involved here.

are u saying ex's wife would kidnap son at the request of your ex? honestly does ex really want that? does he love your son that much in his way that he doesnt want you in his son's life? that is SAAADDD!!!

[La Sombra]

The advice that was given to me when I posted a similar thread recently, and the advice that was given to me by my attorney friend is that there should be NO international travel until you have a formal custody arrangement in place! Your fears may well be utterly unfounded but it doesn't matter. You need to protect yourself and your son this way if there is ANY doubt in your mind.

[meemee]

an oh btw if she wanted to kidnap ds she could do it now without you knowing anything - on their time when he is over there.

[missmich]

I'd work on getting a formal agreement with X about custody etc... I wouldn't worry to much about the new wife kidnapping him. It's not easy getting across the border these days,even if you are a Canadian. They will check her ID and any child that she's traveling with. So she will have to show his "Canadian ID" which he won't have since DS is not Canadian or she will have to show a paper stating that he in her her and X's custody and he is allowed to cross the border with her.

[Super~Single~Mama]

I would let him go, but make him travel with his dad.

I doubt that his new wife would even be able to cross the border with him - its hard enough to do when you're a married parent (you have to have notarized documents and such giving you permission).

Also, I would get a formal custody agreement in place. You don't have to make it a long process, just draw one up, and go into the family court and have a judge make it so ordered by the court.

[Smithie]

Unless you think the two of them are planning a kidnapping, let your son go.

There's something to be said for NOT having a formal agreement in place if things have been amicable thus far - for instance, what if you want to take a job in another state? Your ex couldn't stop you at the outset, he'd have to be committed enough to go to court to get a custody plan established. And it can be good to retain the power to say NO to visitation if something ever goes seriously wonky in your ex's life. Obviously, you are having no problem with shared physical custody right now. But I'll bet you can think of situations he might get into that would cause you to change your mind about that.

The flip side is - if he kidnaps and there's no formal custody order, it's not going to be seen as kidnapping. So a huge factor in this decision is whether or not you think he is the type of person who might one day grab his son and flee into the night.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Smithie

Unless you think the two of them are planning a kidnapping, let your son go.

There's something to be said for NOT having a formal agreement in place if things have been amicable thus far - for instance, what if you want to take a job in another state? Your ex couldn't stop you at the outset, he'd have to be committed enough to go to court to get a custody plan established. And it can be good to retain the power to say NO to visitation if something ever goes seriously wonky in your ex's life. Obviously, you are having no problem with shared physical custody right now. But I'll bet you can think of situations he might get into that would cause you to change your mind about that.

The flip side is - if he kidnaps and there's no formal custody order, it's not going to be seen as kidnapping. So a huge factor in this decision is whether or not you think he is the type of person who might one day grab his son and flee into the night.

I think this is really bad advice. If she wanted to take a job in another state, and just left with her child - custody could very well be given to the father for denying him access to his child. Even if something goes wonky in dad's life and she wants to deny visitation, she doesn't really have the right to do that - and custody could be given to the father still for denying him access to his son.

But, I do agree that if there is no custody agreement, its not kidnapping and very hard to undo.