Sleep expert defends CIO

[mama1803]

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/paren...-cruel-813175/

[hakeber]

Some choice quotes:

If sleep training were cruel, I would never have gotten involved in this profession!

nooooo, if you THOUGHT sleep training was cruel you would not have gotten into this profession...just because you don't BELIEVE it is cruel does not make it any less so...such flawed logic!

Moms should write note cards or posters to hang on the wall with their top five reasons for what they're doing, like "Many babies have learned to sleep great this way and they're so happy when they get good sleep nutrition," "If I keep helping her, she'll keep relying on us to get her to sleep and we'll be miserable during the day when we're supposed to be loving," "My husband and I aren't spending any time together with the baby up all night and it's affecting our marriage," "This is short-term! Hang in there for one night, and we can trash it in the morning ... give her a chance to learn!"

I'm thinking if you need to create written propaganda to get yourself through it, it's probably not a good idea!

It really is over before you know it.

Uh huh, just like any traumatic experience it will come to an end and eventually you will rationalize it in your head enough to forgive yourself...could be why:

Parents do not come back 10 years later and tell us their children have attachment disorders or any medical/psychological problems. The majority of families are thrilled that they worked on sleep when they did, and their children are thriving. If you ask most sleep specialists this question, they'll tell you the same thing.

Could any human mind make the connection 10 years later after having convinced themselves that they did the right thing, they had no choice, it was the only way, etc etc, that it may have been their own actions that caused these issues? I doubt it. They probably just say to themselves "he always was a problem child."

The little bit of time it takes for them to learn to self-soothe doesn't compare to the constant love and nurturing they get at all other times during the day.

No, it doesn't, but not in a good way. IMO, it basically sends the message that I will love and nurture you as long it is convenient for me and doesn't disturb my sleep...I wonder how that message in the psyche will resurface when the child is at a sleepover for the first time and is scared or being pressured into doing something he/she doesn't want to do, or the first time the teen gets drunk and can't drive home? Who can say?

[sapphire_chan]

My goodness, someone who makes money off of "sleep training" thinks it's the bestest thing ever? Well sign me up! /sarcasm

[Cartesia]

yeah - I accidentally went to a mama's group that had a special guest "sleep expert" who charges some ungodly amount to come to your house and tweak all the other variables so that somehow when you leave your babe alone and crying you did "everything else you could". She calls this gentle.

Anyhow, I left but not before asking a few questions. Like - can you work with a family who is not willing to do CIO? "Uh, no."
How do you know the baby isn't totally terrified? "I don't know, but its worth it."
How do you know it isn't traumatic for the child? "I'm a psychologist - I would never do anything that would cause trauma".

THAT one would have had me rolling in the aisle if I wasn't already so steaming mad. BTW, my DP is ALSO a psychologist.....

My darling wakeful babe is just about 15 months and he has recently learned to fall asleep without nursing or rocking!!! He just wants someone to lay next to him, tell him a story & pat his back. It takes about 30 minutes and it is sweet and relaxing. This is a child who used to require at an hour of alternation between nursing and bouncing on a gym ball.

no crying here...

[tanyam926]

So how do all these pro CIO sleep "experts" explain all of the problems that adults have falling to sleep? The multi million dollar sleeping pill industry couldn't have anything to do w/ sleeping problems learned as children right?

I also take major issue w/any so called expert who advises going against your instincts as a parent (hearing a baby cry creates physical and emotional stress for parents, mom especially, until you ignore it long enough to train your body to not respond). Especially since expert parenting advice has changed sooooo much throughout history but women have been putting babies to the breast and holding and comforting them at all hours of the day and night since the beginning of time.

Uh, I'll pass on the expert advice.

[hakeber]

Seriously! My mom did cio...doesnt seem to have helped me self-soothe. I still can't sleep without dh in the bed, even when I am furious with him and I don't want him touching me

[makuahine]

I like where she compares CIO with a child learning how to ride a bike or tie their shoelaces . There is so much wrong with that statement it isn't even worth going into it.

[MyZymurgy]

The things people make a career of...

My mom had us kids CIO. It was a policy in our house also that we couldn't go into the parent's bedroom at night, even if we were scared or hungry or whatever. They kept the door locked anyway, so there was no point in trying. So we'd yell and holler and cry and if we were lucky someone would wake up and come comfort us. But they often didn't come. My mom really thought she was doing the right thing. She is a loving and wonderful woman, but I completely disagree with her nighttime parenting philosophy.

The result of all this? I had horrible nightmares and night terrors as a kid. As an adult, I still have to have a light on to sleep (yup, I'm 33 years old and afraid of the dark!) I am a terrible sleeper and wake frequently through the night.

Would my sleep be better if my parents had used a more gentle approach? Who knows. But the point is this -- CIO is NOT a guarantee for a good sleeper. CIO-pushers make it sound like a cure-all, and it simply isn't.

We are taking a much more gentle approach with our 18 month old. He's not a great sleeper - but nighttime isn't traumatic either. It hurts my heart to hear him cry, and there is no way I'd go against my mom-instincts and just ignore him. Often just a quick kiss and a cuddle is all he needs to go back to sleep. On some nights, I just bring him into bed with us if he needs some extra soothing. Why would I deny him that? Why would I deny MYSELF that?

I also don't understand why we expect our babies and young kids to be super sleepers. Some will be, naturally, regardless of your nighttime parenting tactics. Some will be horrible sleepers, again regardless of nighttime parenting tactics. But "sleep experts" make you think that just because your kid wakes up at night and wants a little attention there is a problem. Huh? My husband, who is an excellent sleeper, still wakes up a couple times at night. When he rolls over to snuggle with me and get back to sleep, should I push him away so he learns to "self soothe"? LOL!!

The propaganda comment cracked me up. If you need to work that hard to convince yourself that you are doing the right thing, there may be a problem. I'll love and soothe my children anytime they need it - day or night. (And I'll do the same for DH!)

OK. Done ranting.

[Shanny2032]

How funny that I just came on to find this here. Yesterday this topic came up on another board and I tried not to be nasty but rail against CIO. Then this afternoon I put my 15 month old to sleep (she is at work with me and sleeps in a car seat swing at work). Anyway, she was fussing so I went back in and made sure she had her silky, told her it was time for night night etc. I came back out and she started really crying so I went back in, nursed her again and she went off to sleep. The whole time all I could think is HOW and WHY can people let their babies cry?

I decided after reading all of your whitty comments to not even bother reading the article. Why waste my time.

[sewaneecook]

For all of you looking for an anti-CIO comeback for others, let them know it causes brain damage! When a baby is left to CIO alone the baby's cortisol levels soar causing permanent changes in the brain. When the same baby cries in a parent's arms the cortisol levels of the baby remain very low and don't change the brain. That's science I can't argue. (I'd link my source, but it was a speaker at the 2007 LLLI conference that I heard.)

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by MyZymurgy

My husband, who is an excellent sleeper, still wakes up a couple times at night. When he rolls over to snuggle with me and get back to sleep, should I push him away so he learns to "self soothe"? LOL!!

I am definitely going to remind dh of this the next time his mom convinces him he should question/doubt our "coddling" ways.

[nervousmommy]

yeah - I accidentally went to a mama's group that had a special guest "sleep expert" who charges some ungodly amount to come to your house and tweak all the other variables so that somehow when you leave your babe alone and crying you did "everything else you could". She calls this gentle.

Anyhow, I left but not before asking a few questions. Like - can you work with a family who is not willing to do CIO? "Uh, no."
How do you know the baby isn't totally terrified? "I don't know, but its worth it."
How do you know it isn't traumatic for the child? "I'm a psychologist - I would never do anything that would cause trauma".

THAT one would have had me rolling in the aisle if I wasn't already so steaming mad. BTW, my DP is ALSO a psychologist.....

My darling wakeful babe is just about 15 months and he has recently learned to fall asleep without nursing or rocking!!! He just wants someone to lay next to him, tell him a story & pat his back. It takes about 30 minutes and it is sweet and relaxing. This is a child who used to require at an hour of alternation between nursing and bouncing on a gym ball.

no crying here...

What was the progression here? My 14 month DS still needs to nurse to sleep and every time he stirs...would love to know how it could turn out...any gentle coaxing techniques? Still get good sleep...would just love some alone time with DH and liitle one not stirring ever 30 min.

[Cartesia]

nervousmommy -

I'd be happy to write about that, but it seems off topic for this thread - why don't you copy it and post another thread & then I will answer it.

the short version - it took a LOT of time & patience.....

[red and lulu]

there aren't words.

frustration = crying? Right. They're not scared or lonely. They're just frustrated with their inability to drift off to sleep on cue, in a dark room all alone. They obviously missed the "closed for business" sign you had around your neck. The nerve. I don't understand how these people sell the idea that crying is soothing. By her logic, frustration is soothing.

Even Ferber now says not to start "sleep training" until 6 months.