3yo and hunger meltdowns

[Alison's Mom]

My DS is normally a sweet kid but becomes extremely cranky when tired or hungry.

The hunger related meltdowns didn't used to be a problem until the last couple of weeks. He often will not eat at mealtime, and then ask for junk food a little later. When I say no to the junk food, he doesn't take any of my alternatives, so then he just doesn't eat anything, but gets sooooo cranky afterwards and it's meltdown central for a couple of hours.

Any little thing will set him off, and he just demands that something be done his way. It's usually something that I have already done, like I put on his shoes when he wanted to do it himself (but didn't tell me this), so then he'll take them off and put them back on himself, which is OK, but then there are also examples where it is either wasteful or just impossible to do what he wants. I'll be wiping his bum, and he'll say 'you have to stop in the middle!!!!!!', and will try to insist that we put the poo back on his bum so I do it again and stop in the middle. Other times, they involve other people, like he doesn't want his big sister and her friend to run ahead of him going back up to our house, and will want everyone to go back to the bottom of the hill so they can all run at the same pace up the hill.

I try to reason with him, but he is impossible to reason with in the middle of the meltdown, and just wants the thing done his way. Often when I'm about to lose it, I will offer to let him to watch TV and that will calm him down. However, because of the rash of meltdowns recently, he has ended up watching too much TV.

He tried to make me turn off the breadmaker today because I turned it on before getting him off the potty, but I wouldn't turn it off, so it turned into an hour long screaming fit of him demanding me to do certain things, and I lost it and yelled back at him really loud and also told him to shut up. I have never yelled this loud or told either child to shut up before, but I have just had it with all this screaming and all his demands of the last couple of weeks. I was so mad and yelled so loud that he had to eat his pasta that he looked scared and finally ate it, and then had another meltdown after because he didn't want me to wipe his face which was covered in tomato sauce. He's finally fine now, but man, oh man, I need to think of a solution.

Sometimes I will just give in to what he is asking me to do, but other times, like I said, it would be impossible (to turn back time, basically), or I am just so sick of it and feel I am setting up bad habits if I give in to his requests that make no sense to me.

[claras_mom]

Boy, this is sounding familiar! Dd1 went through a whole lot of that. Some of it is related to being hungry or tired; some of it is a personality that wants control. It gets better (she's 5 now), though I can't say we're completely out of the woods yet.

For the food thing, I'll often give a very small number (5-6) of whatever not-so-great thing it is she wants. Goldfish, usually. And then, before she gets in more, she has to eat something healthy. Cheese, for example. Or a fruit. It was at about that age that we started talking about healthy and unhealthy foods in terms of what kind of energy they can give you. Bodies need it all, etc.

Regarding When Things Happen, we endured some meltdowns in the process of letting her know that if she communicated her desires clearly and in a timely way, we could likely do it. (She has a thing, for example, about parking in a very particular spot near our favorite restaurant, so that she can run the entire length of the sidewalk).

I could write a book on this one, but need to get to work. Good luck.

[claras_mom]

On the requests that make no sense: I'd say that depending on what it is, and provided he asks nicely and in a timely way you should not worry too much and just go for it. What we've done with dd1 over this issue--and I believe that a need for control is at the heart of it; the low blood sugar is just a trigger--is try to establish firm guidelines, but let her make choices, do for herself, etc. She doesn't always get her desire, but I think that it's helped the situation.

When his requests involve other people, compel him to ask those people. Like the running up the hill thing. He can ask his sister and her friend to come back down. If they don't want to; well, maybe next time. Or if he wanted to go all together so he wouldn't be last, offer to time him with your watch.

I've tried a lot of the tricks - the "oh I wish I had a magic wand" thing, for example. Doesn't work with dd.

It's a long process, but it does get better. And FWIW, I've yelled at dd more times than I'd like to admit. It's not easy.

[Alison's Mom]

Thank you so much for all the advice and tips. I'm glad I'm not the only one going through this - tired and hungry meltdowns are common, I guess, and I thought we'd solved them by making sure the kids get enough sleep, but when you offer food and they refuse to eat it ??? Yes, the idea of giving them a little bit of junk (fish crackers, etc) would probably work at least some of the time. Stave off the intense hunger then see if you can talk some sense into them!

And you're right, some of the things he wants to do probably aren't worth fighting about - I need to pick my battles. I did read 'How to Talk so your kids will listen. . ' some time ago, plus Raising your spirited child, but could really do with a re-read of both. I have also done Neufeld's Power to Parent 1, but I think I am feeling really burnt out, with a few stressful things happening in our family and as a result, not having had a break for a long while. I think once I re-charge, I'll be less irritable and better able to cope, and just not let things escalate to meltdown status. I really like you magic wand trick - I think that may work with both my kids.

[claras_mom]

The "How to Talk..." book is on my shelf, but it always struck me as being better for older kids. "Happiest Toddler on the Block" has some good stuff in it for the 1-4 set.

[Just1More]

Ds is very sensitive to being hungry, and he always has been. We talk about it a lot with him.

When he flips out, we remind him that that happens to him when he is hungry. "When you feel like that, say, 'Mama, I'm hungry.'" It's helped A LOT.

I think refusing what you give him is a different issue entirely. I try to only offer my kids healthy foods, period, and not keep junk. His idea of junk is frequently something like orange juice, lol. But, it creeps in, and we have The Battle again. I stick to my line of "I have to make sure you are healthy and NERDS don't make you healthy. You have to eat your green beans and then we can talk about NERDS." It can take forever, and sometimes he'd rather I put the food in his mouth for him, but he HAS to eat. It makes such a huge difference for him. And a sugar buzz is NOT what he needs.

That said, if we are going through a time when he's being particularly hungry and whiney, I might meet him immediately after his nap (the worst time for him) with a treat. A lollipop or something in his fist just makes him happy. In a few moments, he'll notice the slices of cheese and apples beside him and eat mostly those. I don't like meeting 3yo terrorist demands...but I don't mind pre-empting them (And my guy won't be 3 until the end of May.)

[ecoteat]

Some mornings dd wakes up so completely cranky and unreasonable and it is always because she needs food. Sometimes it's an epic struggle to even get her into the kitchen, but the moment she eat something, it's like a switch has been flipped. And I *totally* understand the absurd demands. It drives me nuts when I've gone downstairs and she's at the top of the stairs in a heap, wailing "BUT I WANTED YOU TO CAAAAAARRRRRYYYYYY MEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!" Ugh. I try really hard to not respond to her demands when she is communicating like that, but I know how hard it is when you are faced with going up and getting her so she'll be quiet or telling her I'm not going to because she's not being polite and then listen to her scream about it.

[Alison's Mom]

Yeah, not having junk food around would be a start. However, DH (and I) both like certain junky things like chocolate and potato chips - I do buy the healthiest ones I can find, though!

He does typically respond (for a while anyway) to me asking him to talk nicely to me. He'll ask for his 'ridiculous' request nicely, but then starts screaming again when I try to explain why it's impossible to do XYZ. . . .

We have cut out the naps, but he used to wake up from naps and cry for 30 minutes no matter what. He's fine when he wakes up in the mornings, for whatever reason.

I'll check out 'Happiest Toddler. . . '. There are so many parenting books out there, but if I know an MDC mama has given it a thumbs up, it always means a lot!

Thanks everyone.

[rachelernst]

This sounds like things I've dealt with my 3 yo.

#1 tip from me would be what I did and my kids love:
"Bedtime treat" They always get a bedtime treat and we work up to it through the day. They may also get another treat, say after lunch. The bedtime treat is key. I stock up on their favorite treats that I feel are acceptable to me. The box is above the fridge and is off limits all day until bedtime treat time. **I measure the size of the treat based on Grams of Sugar, so it might be just 2 cookies. They sometimes witness me read the label and cipher the sugar grams. To me a treat must be totally enjoyable and worth the wait, so the types are what I have been able to find that are natural versions of the total junk. We have organic Oreo's, natural gummies, other organic fudge cookies, Fig Newman's, Fruitabu strips, Sunspire Sundrops etc. I have evolved into noticing that they do ask for treats if they are hungry, but I have gotten firmer that they eat dinner. They actually enjoy saving their treat until after pajamas are on, then we go straight to brush teeth. However, once they've eaten dinner, I give them the option of when to have their treat.

#2 tip from me - on the TV thing. That happened with us too, but I realized that the "too much" part of TV was coming because older child would come home from school or otherwise get a choice of what to watch later in the day, so I was giving her her own special time with the TV. I felt better about it, though, if I offered the show before the meltdown, so that it didn't feel like a "reward for bad behavior".

A lot of my similar issues, I'm sure stemmed from too little sleep. Earlier bedtime is the best solution in our case. This same child, cranky and demanding one day, is really helpful and sweet the day after an earlier bedtime!

#3 tip from me - prepare snacks and offer them when you least expect them to eat it. You'll be surprised how much they will eat of healthy food if it is just sitting there while they play on the floor, or play tea party, or helping you prep food for later, etc. Cut an apple up with cheese and just surprise them with it between meals.

Whenver they are in the store and see candy bars, I say "No" (I have vowed NEVER to buy anything off the checkout aisle as a matter of principle) and explain that it is total junk and I would be happy to give them a natural treat at home such as chocolate. With my 3yo I am more matter of fact, offer an alternative such as horsey ride or something out of the cart. With my 5yo I give more of my reasons. I have been known lately to say things to my 5.5yo like, "The people who make those ______ don't love you. They don't care if you are healthy. They just want your money. That will not help you be healthy or grow strong." Another thing that has helped in a lot of scenarios is naming a SPECIFIC time when they will get to have or do the thing they want. Sometimes that might mean a day next week, a party coming up, a future holiday or "when you are a teenager."

During a more difficult time before I started getting serious about decreasing her sugar, she had access to ice cream cones with Breyers, Haagen Daz ("Five"), or Coconut Milk ice cream (healthier choices) or even homemade ice cream or sorbet. The cones made it special. It was worth not arguing over treats and food, and often then she would chow down on healthier foods later in the day if I planned it right or got it prepared in time before she asked for another treat.

My 3yo DD also will eat much more and try more foods if she is **sitting on my lap! I often don't even offer her to taste it. I let her do the asking.

When they are already "starving" I feel like it's really too late. I'm going to "lose" the battle. I figure I have to make up for it later and I start plotting what they will eat next after their snack is gone.

Every day that I make a lunch for her older brother for school, I make a lunch for her. She has her own lunch box. It's very helpful for she and I to go shopping with snacks all ready to go.

I also did "picnics" outside where I cut up apples and cheese, chx nuggets, pizza, etc. The novelty of outdoors helped them eat whatever I prepared.

But, if it is about food, it may be sugar cravings. I am unraveling my own Candidiasis and am pretty sure that she may have an imbalance. I am working on eliminating as much sugar as I can, in a slow way through my further exploration of Nourishing Traditions and my own no-sugar diet. I focus on them getting fat, protein, berries, supplements and some coconut fat. I find as many easy things that I can so they can grab a healthy snack: yogurt cups already made up (have him help make up a bunch of yogurt cups ahead of time and put them where he can reach in the fridge?), cheese sticks or raw cheese allready sliced up (have him help do it so he connects with them being there?).

My DD grabs salted cashews or macadamias out of our pantry a lot. Sardines are ready to go. Gluten free crackers (with cheese). Veggies cut up and dip available. Never-ending pasta bowl and other leftovers. Cream cheese on bagels/whatever. Hummous/crackers.

Other snacks include: Coconut Milk Beverage with Amazing Grass Chocolate
Pizza toast with Muir Glen pizza sauce made in toaster oven (add a layer of butter or oil underneath sauce on top of sprouted grain bread)
Veggie chips
Kefir in little bottles
iced tea


For my DD, I think other meltdowns were always about her wanting to be able to learn something, accomplish something, be involved. I like efficiency, so I have to slow way down with her. She is 3.5 and those meltdowns are working themselves out and making way for different issues.

[Alison's Mom]

Wow, thanks for all the great tips!!!! I will definitely try them out!