Talk to me about discipline - Page 2

[IowaAngela]

I think often times parents take WAY too much credit (or blame) for their child's natural temperament and personality. The fact is, some kids are "easier" then others. An extremely outgoing, bold, curious, and independent child compared to a quiet, cautious, mellow, and laid back child parented/disciplined in the EXACT same way will NOT produce the same behavioral outcomes.

So I always find it sort of annoying when parents smugly talk about how their form of discipline works wonders and any parent who follows it will have a perfect little angel. Haha! Most the time, they seem to not realize they are congratulating themselves for something they had almost nothing to do with (other than supplying genetic material). 80% of these parents only have one kid... and often kid #2 (or #3) is a harsh wakeup call and they suddenly think they don't know how to parent anymore. Again, too much credit and too much blame for natural personality types.

I know parents with absolutely no clear method or structure or plan for discipline, but yet their kid almost never gets into trouble. He's just not an getting into cupboards, smearing paint on the walls, running around like crazy kind of kid. Even at the age of two, he was happiest just sitting and looking at a picture book quietly or watching a video for hours on end ( that's another story though).

I know parents (like many here obviously) who have tried every method in the book and work VERY HARD to instill discipline in their child... but their little ones still "run wild".

I know this post isn't especially helpful. But I just had to vent a bit.

My toddler may be a "handful" - but I try to just enjoy his spunky personality and try my best to get everyone through these years with minimal injury to person or property. Sometimes I wish I had a more docile kid... but that feeling never lasts too long. I love him so much for who he is and for the creative, fun, and energetic (and...um, yes.. willful) little boy he is growing into.

[Shami]

Originally Posted by RosemaryS-F

How does Playful Parenting deal with serious issues, like if the child is in danger?

I don't use playful parenting for safety issues. I try to show my most serious side. I will sometimes give choices. For example, walking in the parking lot, she either holds my hand, I carry her, or she can ride in the cart. For the occasional car seat battle, I try to make it a game/fun, but if she doesn't want to, I force her in there. I really hate physically forcing her. She is getting strong, too. Not easy.

Iowaangela--Thanks for that little reminder/rant! I totally agree. When I saw Peppermint Poppies little kiddo was up to I realized that my kid isn't that creative and bold. My dd is the cautious kind who may find something that is a no no and bring it to me to ask if she can have it. I can't take credit for that. It's just who she is.

Hey Peppermint! Not trying to talk behind your back! lol Just thinking WOW. Your little guy has a great imagination to get into all of that in one day! You must be exhausted. Hug! I hate those days when I feel like I'm cleaning up one mess after the other all day long.

Violet--try this one. Pretend your trying to put her pj's on for real, but they don't fit. Try to put her pants on and be totally bummed that they don't fit. Or you could be mad that they don't fit, whatever suits you. Then ask her if they fit her. See if that works? Maybe she's too smart for some games and realizes your trying to pull one over on her. Some kids are very intuitive that way. That's a good thing in my book.

[Peppermint Poppies]

Originally Posted by Shami

Hey Peppermint! Not trying to talk behind your back! lol Just thinking WOW. Your little guy has a great imagination to get into all of that in one day! You must be exhausted. Hug! I hate those days when I feel like I'm cleaning up one mess after the other all day long.

He does have a great imagination I've just done 6 flights of stairs to pick up all the toys he just flung over the balcony. I'm trying to reframe things in a positive light, and tell myself that he's exploring gravity and the physics of objects Kinda like early homeschooling!

Seriously, though, I have been reading Mary Sheedy-Kurcinka's book "Raising Your Spirited Child" book, and she talks about becoming aware of the labels we apply to our children, and rephrasing them in a more positive way. For example, my little guy who has a meltdown whenever something doesn't happen exactly right is someone who 'has high standards for himself' and 'likes to achieve highly'. All the screeching that goes on when he gets overexcited ... he has a 'big capacity for experiencing joy'. Kurcinka talks about using those same labels when we talk about our children with other adults, so that they will see the challenges as positive traits also, and use the same labels that we use ourselves.

[RosemaryS-F]

This thread led me to pick up the Discipline Book by the Sears. There's some great advice in there! I'd recommend it as companion reading to other books that have been suggested here

One of the main things it says (and that I've been trying to say in my own limited way) is how discipline is not the same as punishment, but it is a right relationship with your child (not a technique). It says to come up with some desirable outcomes for your child, such as sensitivity, integrity, wisdom to make right choices, desire to learn, sense of responsibility, and respect for authority. I know that some of these things are debatable, but their point is that we come up with our own "wish list" for our kids as a starting point; and realize that we aren't programming them, but guiding them.

Here are some of their tips for a "Discipline Talk":
Use the child's name with addressing them
Use ONE sentence when directing, otherwise they tune out
If they can talk, ask them to repeat back to you what you've said
Avoiding power struggles: make an offer they can't refuse, like "Pascal, get dressed so you can go out and play
Positivity: instead of "no running" say "inside we walk, outside we can run"
Say "I want you to..." this gives a reason for compliance rather than just an order
Instead of "if..then" statements, use "when...then" statements like when you finish dinner, then you can get down and play"
Instead of hollering to your kid, go over to them
Instead of asking a 3 year old or younger WHY they did something, say "Let's talk about what you did"
Expect your child to be polite and well mannered. Speak to them how you want them to speak to you.
Use "I" language instead of "you" language
If your child is yelling and getting louder, you must speak more softly and quietly. This is calming.
Settle them down before expecting them to listen to you.
Repeat, repeat, repeat what you've told them 1000 times
Instead of "pick up" say, "Think of where you'd like to put your..."
Use rhyme rules such as "If you hit, you must sit"
Give likable alternatives
Close the discussions. If a matter is closed to discussion, say so. "I'm not changing my mind about this. Sorry."

HTH

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by Peppermint Poppies

He does have a great imagination I've just done 6 flights of stairs to pick up all the toys he just flung over the balcony. I'm trying to reframe things in a positive light, and tell myself that he's exploring gravity and the physics of objects Kinda like early homeschooling!

Seriously, though, I have been reading Mary Sheedy-Kurcinka's book "Raising Your Spirited Child" book, and she talks about becoming aware of the labels we apply to our children, and rephrasing them in a more positive way. For example, my little guy who has a meltdown whenever something doesn't happen exactly right is someone who 'has high standards for himself' and 'likes to achieve highly'. All the screeching that goes on when he gets overexcited ... he has a 'big capacity for experiencing joy'. Kurcinka talks about using those same labels when we talk about our children with other adults, so that they will see the challenges as positive traits also, and use the same labels that we use ourselves.

Ok, I have to check out this book now. Thank you! I remember my granny using similar labels.

[almadianna]

have you thougt about Xposting in the Gentle Discipline forum?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by RosemaryS-F

<snip>
One of the main things it says (and that I've been trying to say in my own limited way) is how discipline is not the same as punishment, but it is a right relationship with your child (not a technique). It says to come up with some desirable outcomes for your child, such as sensitivity, integrity, wisdom to make right choices, desire to learn, sense of responsibility, and respect for authority. I know that some of these things are debatable, but their point is that we come up with our own "wish list" for our kids as a starting point; and realize that we aren't programming them, but guiding them.
<snip>
HTH

That was sort of my point in sharing my background. Although I understand this intellectually, that's it. I have no point of reference. I don't understand what a healthy relationship looks like from experience (and yes that has it's repercussions in EVERY area of my life). I am working hard to change that and to give my children a better internal compass than the one with which I was provided, and I really appreciate all the tools I can get to help me build it! Thank you! I will add that book to my list.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by almadianna

have you thougt about Xposting in the Gentle Discipline forum?

Thought about, yes. Actually done? Not yet. I'll probably do that now. Thank you.

[blind_otter]

I face the same discipline issues with my 20 month old DS as I do with my 12 year old SS.

The other day I turned the TV off and my DS said, "Stop it, you're being a bitch." Impressive sentence structure and diction. Truthfully I was being a bitch, so what could I say?

My older sister, mother of 4 ages 10 years to 8 months, told me once that parenting is an endurance race. You just have to be able to endure more irritation and discomfort than your child(ren) for longer periods of time.

My son gets time outs. I'm lucky in that he is very verbal, so we have gotten to a point where we can actually have rudimentary conversations about what he has done, the fact that it is not OK with mommy (or papi or brother or cat or whoever else), the fact that we must try not to do it. If I lose it, I always apologize for yelling.

Everyone says it, and it sounds cliche - consistency. That's the best thing. Routine helps prevent meltdowns, too. And above all else - a lot of outside play time! The more the better.

Some books I really liked:

Raising a Resilient Child
Raising a Self-Disciplined Child
The No Cry Discipline Solution
Raising Boys (for those of us who did not grow up around boys and have been blessed with nothing but boys...oh the irony).

[Violet2]

Originally Posted by blind_otter

\

My older sister, mother of 4 ages 10 years to 8 months, told me once that parenting is an endurance race. You just have to be able to endure more irritation and discomfort than your child(ren) for longer periods of time.
\.

This rings true. I was in the bathroom today for about 20 min trying to coax DD to go potty. I just had to out wait her until she realized the only way out was to go through.

Truthfully, books rarely help me. I have most of them. Have read them all and not found any framework that applies across the board. I have a core ideology of GD but have to rely on what works too.

Basically, I wing it every single day.

V

[Picard]

DS (22 months) is starting to assert his will a lot. If all else fails, we go outside. This changes both our moods/energy levels. I do need to force my will on him sometimes, like when he hasn't gone to the washroom for a pee in a long, long time (like hours). Dressing is a bit of an issue, so I will often bring him half-dressed out to the car (if we're driving somewhere) and dress him without many problems when we get to where we need to be. Dressing is just not a battle I'd like to engage in. We use puppets when needed: 'kitty/moose likes to wash his hair, etc.' Often DS will want to too then, since he is so emotionally attached to his puppets. We do put our foot down and I will not change my mind often once I said no to something; and, at all times DH and I try to be a team, so that DS cannot play one off the other. Also, I work with consequences: 'you can play with water, but if you turn on the hot tap, you're done playing'. This works really well and DS does not struggle or get upset when he knows he has transgressed. (Of course, he cried the first time, but I explained it to him, and it was fine after that).
It's getting pretty tough though and it gets to be exhausting at times.
I read parts of the playful parenting book and actually did not like the writing style much, so I could not read on. I do get what the author is saying and very often it works. I suppose the idea is to stay 'zen' at all times and to be in a creative mode. Ha! It's a good challenge. The Sears advise is pretty helpful too. So, now we all we need to figure out is how to prevent DS from opening the fridge all the time (we're down to using duct-tape), throwing ceramic cups on the floor to see them break, scratching us to see how we react, throwing hard things at us and the furniture to see what that does, pick the paint off the woodwork, yell at the cat.....

[Karrie42]

The life saver in this house was "Happiest Toddler on the block" by Harvey Karp. although we're still just winging it most of the time.

I am finding that lots of crazy choices helps...when I want him to go into the bathroom to brush his teeth bu the wants to keep playing with his car instead, I ask things like "It's time to clean your teeth. Do you want to take your car into the bathroom or keep it here?" Then he ends up "wanting to take his car into the bathroom." I'm discovering that sneakiness is a necessary skill with toddlers!

Waiting to hear more ideas...

- Karrie

[granolalight]

Great thread, mamas. I am experiencing similar antics with my 3 year old, and I think it's true that it is an endurance race! It's a daily test of my patience. And I agree with Violet2: I've read most of them, heck, I TEACH parenting classes to parents involved with CPS! But most days, I wing it too.

One thing that helps me a lot is recalling some of the battles I went through with dd when she was 3 and 4 years old. I remember crying and sitting on either side of a door (with her tantruming on the other side) calling my sister to help keep me grounded, sane, and safe from harming my child! Now, she is almost 10 and a complete joy who (almost) never gives me any trouble whatsoever. She has grown into a friendly, sweet, kind, self-disciplined person. I know my son will too. When he is obnoxious to others, like at church, I just remind myself (and others) that he will one day grow to be a fine, upstanding citizen. But today is not that day.

It all passes. I think you just gotta ride it out and preserve your sanity while doing it.

[kdtmom2be]

Originally Posted by Violet2

At this point, I give her some choices of what to wear (she then refuses to pick anything) and I basically chase her down and wrestle her into her clothes. I could negotiate or explain she has to go to her room if she can't be cooperative, but that takes a lot of time and ups the ante on the drama. It's just easier to chase her.

Actually, it's easier to go nowhere. We are avoiding scheduled activities right now. I refuse to argue with DD and spend an hour exhausting myself to try and get her out the door.
V

This is us... except that DD WANTS to go places. So I simply tell her that it's ok to be naked at home, that if she is cold that she has to put her own clothes on or ask for help when she is ready to co-operate, and that we don't go out without clothes (this includes SOCKS!!!). She has to get dressed to go out. I have the luxury of gradma living with us so I've been able to use the "if you don't get dressed you have to stay home" a few times and now there's no hassle.

Originally Posted by RosemaryS-F

How does Playful Parenting deal with serious issues, like if the child is in danger?

That is not a time for playful parenting.

Originally Posted by Peppermint Poppies

He does have a great imagination I've just done 6 flights of stairs to pick up all the toys he just flung over the balcony. I'm trying to reframe things in a positive light, and tell myself that he's exploring gravity and the physics of objects Kinda like early homeschooling!

Did you at least get DS to clean up with you? we have this issue, not with the stairs, but just with toys all over. DD helps me clean up because she is told that we aren't going to move on to the next activity until she's finished with her toys and that means putting them back in the toybox. I usually help, depending on the quantity of toys and have only ONCE had to physically put a toy in her hand and lead her to the toybox, she was about 18 months at the time I think. It was done gently, but firmly. I think one step beyond telling yourself that he's exploring gravity would be to tell HIM that he's exploring gravity! I'd probably tell DD that "It's really neat how everythign falls down isn't it? Opposite to how some balloon float UP! Do some things fall faster? Do they bounce when they hit the ground? I'm sure glad that you had fun doing that but now we need to clean up." And I'd probably follow with what toys shouldn't be thrown over the railing because they will break.

Originally Posted by blind_otter

The other day I turned the TV off and my DS said, "Stop it, you're being a bitch." Impressive sentence structure and diction. Truthfully I was being a bitch, so what could I say?

You could explain that "bitch" isn't a polite word and that he's not to say it ever again. Then give him some other words to say. In our house the conversation would have been "Pardon me? We don't say the word "bitch" here because it's not nice. If you don't like me turning off the tv you can say "I would like to watch TV please, I don't like that you are turning it off." And if he's learning the language from your SS then I'd be having a discussion with him about what is appropriate language and what is not and the consequences of using that sort of language in the home.

[RosemaryS-F]

I agree. Although I don't have an older kid, so I'm SURE that comes with its very own set of nightmares.

[dutchgal]

Nobody's mentioned the book Honey I Wrecked The Kids by Alison Schafer. It was a fantastic read while hanging at the end of my rope. I have a strong, spirited, very verbal and smart 2.5 year old girl, and I was ready to hurt this kid the way our days were going. Now, we do have our struggles, but they're not nearly as bad or as long as they used to be, and I know how to diffuse most power struggles now.

I highly, highly recommend this book, along with the How to Talk book. This 'Honey' book is just what is needed when parenting a headstrong toddler.

[MeAndVee]

I didn't read all the posts...sorry if it has been said. But when DS Became mobile I was told to baby proof, but not so much as just making your home safe, but more of making a Yes environment. And wow what a difference it has made. I don,t need to say no all day or steer him in a different direction. As to the climbing. Ignore the stuff that isnlt hazardous to his health. Which is especially hard. OMG peeing off the balcony. I would say make hime clean it up. Along with mopping up all that water in the bathroom and hall!!!!! And yes I would stand by pointing out the missed spots...all the while remaining serious. Some days are worse than others, just hold tight to the positive. Best of luck, sorry I donlt have a book suggestion