Yet another thread on "The Secret of Parenting"

[NYCVeg]

I just read this book on the advice of another MDC mom. And I have to say...I kind of don't get it. The advice seems to be, repeat your request/response two times and then disengage. I'm just not seeing how this will work--at least not for my dd, who is nearly 4.

If I "disengage" from dd after repeating something twice, she will plead for my attention ("Mama! Mama! Mama! Mama!) and, if/when I acknowledge her, she will simply keep repeating her objection to my request and/or try to negotiate. But if I don't acknowledge her (which, I gotta say, seems kind of cruel), she'll go to full-blown meltdown.

Dh and I are both really struggling with dd not listening, particularly in situations where it is important for safety reasons (no running in the parking lot, no running and jumping near the hot stove, etc.). Even though we both understand age-appropriate behavior, it can be difficult to control our tempers in the heat of the moment, and whining really pushes our buttons. But it seems like his techniques just transfer the anger and frustration from the parent to the child. Am I missing something?

[GuildJenn]

In the case of serious safety issues I think that book's advice about having to be swift and intervene physically immediately would be where I would go. The swiftness of your response and the seriousness of your tone will probably help get it across.

For generic whining, I might be blending techniques. But if the 'whining' is about my son's feelings I tend to mildly reflect his feelings. ("I wanted to stay outside!" -- "you're disappointed it's time to come in.") But I do do it in a very neutral almost careless tone. I'm there, but I'm not engaged in his feelings. They're his feelings. I'm just making dinner or whatever. I'm sure lots of kids are different but my son calms down faster when I don't make a big deal about it.

For the opposite - where I've asked something like "please take your boots off" and he doesn't, I personally have found the "waiting for a bus" technique straight out of that book to be hugely effective. Again it's not precisely ignoring. It's more just not buying into the drama, so to speak. I try to convey that I fully expect that he will be taking his boots off soon,, and that it would be nice if it were now, without really arguing. I just expect. I liked that the book gave me an out for the power struggles where I would just do it myself and say "I'm grumpy I have to do this myself" and then move on. And I loved the idea that you can't control when your child will get it, you just have to have faith that he will.

I did find some of the other concepts in that book useful too. Like I don't personally have to keep repeating myself; I can assume that he has heard it and just wait to see. I also loved the concept of the baby self, although sometimes I felt like the appropriate response to the baby self was not to wait the baby self out but provide some love and hugs.

Basically I think for me it works, but I do implement it my way.

[elisheva]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

For the opposite - where I've asked something like "please take your boots off" and he doesn't, I personally have found the "waiting for a bus" technique straight out of that book to be hugely effective. Again it's not precisely ignoring. It's more just not buying into the drama, so to speak. I try to convey that I fully expect that he will be taking his boots off soon,, and that it would be nice if it were now, without really arguing. I just expect. I liked that the book gave me an out for the power struggles where I would just do it myself and say "I'm grumpy I have to do this myself" and then move on. And I loved the idea that you can't control when your child will get it, you just have to have faith that he will.

This sounds just like something I read in How to Listen So Kids Will Talk... (a great cook on communicating) - I guess good ideas are repeated many ways.

[heartmama]

In my experience the "Waiting for the Bus" tactic described in The Secret of Parenting is very effective for addressing non-emergency situations in which a pattern of non-cooperation has emerged and you are stuck in a negative cycle.

The idea of stating your expectation and then standing nearby, bored, like you are waiting for a bus (disengaging) will, in some instances and with some children, trigger a cooperative response which would never have emerged with direct antagonism/engagement/confrontation/escalation/drama. It seems to work from the premise that silence speaks volumes. The tactic works when lack of cooperation has emerged due to indirectly conditioning your child to ignore you until you up the ante/get louder/ yell/threaten. Conversely some parents condition children to ignore them until they (the parent) begins to wheedle, beg, and reward.

[Magella]

Originally Posted by NYCVeg

If I "disengage" from dd after repeating something twice, she will plead for my attention ("Mama! Mama! Mama! Mama!) and, if/when I acknowledge her, she will simply keep repeating her objection to my request and/or try to negotiate. But if I don't acknowledge her (which, I gotta say, seems kind of cruel), she'll go to full-blown meltdown.

I read the book, and I think the idea of disengaging is not to disengage from the child, but to disengage from interaction about the specific problem issue. At least, that's what I took from it (but it has been a long time since I read it).

I find disengaging to be helpful at times with my children. It's not not acknowledging them, or not answering them, it's about being firm that "I'm not going to talk about that anymore." So an issue has come up, we've talked about it, it has become clear that continuing to talk about it isn't going to help and may actually make things worse-then I'll say "I'm done talking about it." If my child keeps asking, I'll keep simply saying "I'm done talking about that." I'll be there, I'll hug them if they want, I love them very much, but I'm done talking about that particular thing (sometimes it's appropriate to say "We can talk about it again later, when you're calm" and sometimes we really are just done).

When I've made a request, disengaging means that I make the request once or twice then I stop. I wait. When they were younger I did more of the "waiting for the bus" right near them. Nowadays, it's more like this: "It's time to feed the dog" (each child has a day that feeding the dog is their responsibility). Child refuses (says sulkily or yells "No! I don't want to!"). I firmly state "It's your day to feed the dog, and I expect you to do it." Then I disengage-I walk away and/or go about my business (I don't ignore the kids, I'm just done talking about feeding the dog-so if they're whining about not wanting to feed the dog, the most I'll say is "I'm done talking about it for now" or "I heard you"). 9 times out of 10, the child will feed the dog within a few minutes. If not, then I feed the dog myself and say "you didn't feed the dog. It's not fair to the dog to not be fed, so I did it. Next time I expect you to do it." I'm sure I don't sound pleased, sometimes I'll say I'm not pleased.

Now, if my child says "okay, can I finish this first?" obviously that's fine. If they say "I'm really tired, can you do it?" or "can I ask (sibling) if they can do it?" or anything like that (whether they ask when I first make my request or after I've disengaged), we can talk about that. This is a time when interaction is working: we're both calm, child is communicating and listening, I'm listening and communicating, and there are potential (and realistic) alternate solutions/the issue isn't non-negotiable.

I think disengaging (from a particular interaction) is for those times when the interaction isn't working. Sometimes continuing to interact about something doesn't help (either because someone is too upset or because the issue is non-negotiable), and sometimes even makes the situation worse. So we step away from it. That doesn't mean we can't revisit the issue later, just that for now the interaction needs to end.

[loraxc]

ITA with PP--this is how I see it, too. It's not about full-on ignoring; it's about not engaging on that issue. or about stating expectations and not engaging further.

FWIW, The Secret of Parenting is pretty much the one approach that works with my extremely persistent, intense DD. (I might mention here that I am a little on the fiery side myself, and the techniques help me as well.)

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by elisheva

This sounds just like something I read in How to Listen So Kids Will Talk... (a great cook on communicating) - I guess good ideas are repeated many ways.

Yes, I find them pretty compatible texts. I love How to Listen.